News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

[lordsigma]

Honestly think I would be more disappointed with the barges at DAK than I was/am with Epcot. DAK has the best sightlines on property, imo.

That aside, it's interesting that they wouldnt just continue Harmonius until the new show debuts.

Unless they need some of the equipment for the new show such as if they are extensively modifying the barges for the new show but not entirely scrapping all the hardware.

 

[lentesta]

With how symmetrical Disney parks are in design I'd be very surprised if this was true

Okay, here's a quick - and almost certainly inaccurate - example of what I think the Imagineer was saying.

If you measure the halfway point between the entrances to The Land and Mission: Space, it's slightly to the east of EPCOT's centerline. (Remember, "up" is south in EPCOT's orientation, and "down" is north.)

Likewise, if you measure the halfway point between the entrance to France and the Africa expansion pad, it's slightly more to the east of EPCOT's center line.

Here's a badly-drawn illustration of that:

Of course, Harmonious' alignment is more skewed than that. But the thing is, the points you pick for the east and west boundaries in Future World and World Showcase can result in a park centerline that's not aligned with SSE and the American Adventure.

Why would anyone do this?

The only thing I can think of is that if the World Festival pavilion was built, the prime viewing spots there would have a centerline slightly to the east of the SSE-American Adventure centerline. That festival sightly line would be perfectly aligned with the sight line that got built for Harmonious' barges. I leave it to someone else to draw that line on a map.

So my guess is that they aligned Harmonious' barges off the centerline, in the expectation that the show would last for 10-20 years and the World Festival pavilion would be built by now, generating lots and lots of dessert party revenue.

 

[disneylandtour]

Okay, here's a quick - and almost certainly inaccurate - example of what I think the Imagineer was saying.

If you measure the halfway point between the entrances to The Land and Mission: Space, it's slightly to the east of EPCOT's centerline. (Remember, "up" is south in EPCOT's orientation, and "down" is north.)

Likewise, if you measure the halfway point between the entrance to France and the Africa expansion pad, it's slightly more to the east of EPCOT's center line.

Here's a badly-drawn illustration of that:

View attachment 672646

Of course, Harmonious' alignment is more skewed than that. But the thing is, the points you pick for the east and west boundaries in Future World and World Showcase can result in a park centerline that's not aligned with SSE and the American Adventure.

Why would anyone do this?

The only thing I can think of is that if the World Festival pavilion was built, the prime viewing spots there would have a centerline slightly to the east of the SSE-American Adventure centerline. That festival sightly line would be perfectly aligned with the sight line that got built for Harmonious' barges. I leave it to someone else to draw that line on a map.

So my guess is that they aligned Harmonious' barges off the centerline, in the expectation that the show would last for 10-20 years and the World Festival pavilion would be built by now, generating lots and lots of dessert party revenue.

I believe that is correct. The sightline has to be a center-left position of the proposed the festival tower. The tower would have viewing from the top, but also from some lower areas as well. In so many ways, the whole Harm fiasco only made sense if you could put thousands of people on multiple levels of that festival structure who would then also have an optimal sightline for the show. Relatedly, unless it's to save the cost of maintenance, why in the world would they kill this show before they had something else of substance to put in the lagoon? Let's say some families visits WDW every three years. This means that this show would be a draw as a novelty for two more years, taking nighttime crowd burdens off MK. I completely understand that the stargate, etc., is an eyesore during the day and should go. But the return of the very weak EF is only going to make crowd patterns worse for MK, especially as there remains no night entertainment at AK. The strategies of the current WDW admin baffles me.

 

[SplashJacket]

So my guess is that they aligned Harmonious' barges off the centerline, in the expectation that the show would last for 10-20 years and the World Festival pavilion would be built by now, generating lots and lots of dessert party revenue.

Someone, maybe Marni, said they didn’t design Harmonious with the festival center in consideration.

 

[JoeCamel]

I believe that is correct. The sightline has to be a center-left position of the proposed the festival tower. The tower would have viewing from the top, but also from some lower areas as well. In so many ways, the whole Harm fiasco only made sense if you could put thousands of people on multiple levels of that festival structure who would then also have an optimal sightline for the show. Relatedly, unless it's to save the cost of maintenance, why in the world would they kill this show before they had something else of substance to put in the lagoon? Let's say some families visits WDW every three years. This means that this show would be a draw as a novelty for two more years, taking nighttime crowd burdens off MK. I completely understand that the stargate, etc., is an eyesore during the day and should go. But the return of the very weak EF is only going to make crowd patterns worse for MK, especially as there remains no night entertainment at AK. The strategies of the current WDW admin baffles me.

Maybe it will go the way of the MK night parade, dark until further notice or you forget there was one long ago

 

[bcoachable]

Maybe it will go the way of the MK night parade, dark until further notice or you forget there was one long ago

Maybe, but I bet the restaurants in EPCOT would appreciate a (good) reason for the people to stick around at night…

 

[Comped]

Maybe, but I bet the restaurants in EPCOT would appreciate a (good) reason for the people to stick around at night…

The $6 million a year Reflections of Earth was said to have made by people sticking around to shop and dine alone is reason enough for them to have high quality nightime entertainment at Epcot. People like to drink with dinner, and eat if it's late... Epcot is known for making most of its money off F&B, more than any other park in the company I believe.

 

[vikescaper]

I found IllumiNations to be boring until ROE came…

Before ROE, my family would leave before IllumiNations was over. ROE changed that and we started to linger in the park after the show.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Before ROE, my family would leave before IllumiNations was over. ROE changed that and we started to linger in the park after the show.

ROE was the first time I fell in love with Disney fireworks. Before it, I would routinely skip IllumiNations and FitS. ROE and then Wishes made me want to find a good spot to view the show as often as possible.

I’m back to skipping fireworks many nights due to DE and Harm.

 

[wishiwere@wdw]

I believe that is correct. The sightline has to be a center-left position of the proposed the festival tower. The tower would have viewing from the top, but also from some lower areas as well. In so many ways, the whole Harm fiasco only made sense if you could put thousands of people on multiple levels of that festival structure who would then also have an optimal sightline for the show. Relatedly, unless it's to save the cost of maintenance, why in the world would they kill this show before they had something else of substance to put in the lagoon? Let's say some families visits WDW every three years. This means that this show would be a draw as a novelty for two more years, taking nighttime crowd burdens off MK. I completely understand that the stargate, etc., is an eyesore during the day and should go. But the return of the very weak EF is only going to make crowd patterns worse for MK, especially as there remains no night entertainment at AK. The strategies of the current WDW admin baffles me.

Not sure if they had much of a choice but to end the show due to the ongoing technical challenges and maintenance headaches. But I’m sure others here know more.

 

[peter11435]

Okay, here's a quick - and almost certainly inaccurate - example of what I think the Imagineer was saying.

If you measure the halfway point between the entrances to The Land and Mission: Space, it's slightly to the east of EPCOT's centerline. (Remember, "up" is south in EPCOT's orientation, and "down" is north.)

Likewise, if you measure the halfway point between the entrance to France and the Africa expansion pad, it's slightly more to the east of EPCOT's center line.

Here's a badly-drawn illustration of that:

View attachment 672646

Of course, Harmonious' alignment is more skewed than that. But the thing is, the points you pick for the east and west boundaries in Future World and World Showcase can result in a park centerline that's not aligned with SSE and the American Adventure.

Why would anyone do this?

The only thing I can think of is that if the World Festival pavilion was built, the prime viewing spots there would have a centerline slightly to the east of the SSE-American Adventure centerline. That festival sightly line would be perfectly aligned with the sight line that got built for Harmonious' barges. I leave it to someone else to draw that line on a map.

So my guess is that they aligned Harmonious' barges off the centerline, in the expectation that the show would last for 10-20 years and the World Festival pavilion would be built by now, generating lots and lots of dessert party revenue.

You are all putting way too much thought into this. The festival center and misplaced center lines have nothing to do with Harmonious being off center. It’s entirely because they choose to use existing infrastructure in the lake and were too cheap to move it. The L shaped structure in the center of the lagoon seen in your map was previously used for the earth globe and is now used for the harmonious center barge. Since the Harmonious barge is significantly larger it pushes its center further off center.

 

[SoFloMagic]

You are all putting way too much thought into this. The festival center and misplaced center lines have nothing to do with Harmonious being off center. It’s entirely because they choose to use existing infrastructure in the lake and were too cheap to move it. The L shaped structure in the center of the lagoon seen in your map was previously used for the earth globe and is now used for the harmonious center barge. Since the Harmonious barge is significantly larger it pushes its center further off center.

This is the most hilarious debate ever. This is such a bonehead move that it's obviously correct.

I mean, we're pouring concrete in the middle of a lake for new docks for four tacos, but we can't extend demo and replace the existing one to make it all even? That just sounds like Josh and Bob's Disney.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This is the most hilarious debate ever. This is such a bonehead move that it's obviously correct.

I mean, we're pouring concrete in the middle of a lake for new docks for four tacos, but we can't extend demo and replace the existing one to make it all even? That just sounds like Josh and Bob's Disney.

The irony is that the big wigs then complained once they saw the finished product. Like, dude…you didn’t pay enough attention to what they were building?

And if the Harm production team convinced the big wigs that this would be adequate, they should be fired because fireworks spectaculars are so iconic to WDW, in particular, and a major reason for the number of TSRs in our parks. They cannot afford these missteps here. Their willingness to replace both DE and Harm so quickly indicates that someone in charge understands how important these shows are for WDW. DL will apparently accept whatever garbage they decide to project on the castle 2 nights a week for most of the year, but not WDW.

“Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland... the blessing of no government regulation of fireworks. We can launch whatever we want into the skies above Florida!” -Walt Disney

 

[jrhwdw]

The irony is that the big wigs then complained once they saw the finished product. Like, dude…you didn’t pay enough attention to what they were building?

And if the Harm production team convinced the big wigs that this would be adequate, they should be fired because fireworks spectaculars are so iconic to WDW, in particular, and a major reason for the number of TSRs in our parks. They cannot afford these missteps here. Their willingness to replace both DE and Harm so quickly indicates that someone in charge understands how important these shows are for WDW. DL will apparently accept whatever garbage they decide to project on the castle 2 nights a week for most of the year, but not WDW.

“Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland... the blessing of no government regulation of fireworks. We can launch whatever we want into the skies above Florida!” -Walt Disney

Didn't DL get special permission to do Fireworks nightly for the 45th, 50th & 60th? Maybe the Disney 100 Fireworks will be every nightly if DL can swing it???

Before the 45th......who made the decision not to do DL Fireworks Christmas Season/Week???? DL's or CA Rules????

 

[IMDREW]

What are the odds of them shipping these barges over to WDS in Paris? Or are they just really gonna demolish them and call it a day?

 

[Squishy]

What are the odds of them shipping these barges over to WDS in Paris? Or are they just really gonna demolish them and call it a day?

WDS is getting Tokyo's Fantasmic barges

 

[TheMaxRebo]

What are the odds of them shipping these barges over to WDS in Paris? Or are they just really gonna demolish them and call it a day?

I would think close to zero - they are requiring a lot of maintenance and are permanently installed, so won't be easy to remove in one piece. I could see them using components of them (basing reusing scraps) - but shipping them in anything close to completed state I think is not going to happen

 

[gerarar]

I would think close to zero - they are requiring a lot of maintenance and are permanently installed, so won't be easy to remove in one piece. I could see them using components of them (basing reusing scraps) - but shipping them in anything close to completed state I think is not going to happen

They should take those moving fountains off the taco barges and move them to Fantasmic! because apparently they didn't even upgrade the fountain heads with its really....really long extended downtime..

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Tacos would have a better time in a pond that isn't 'dirty' with natural sand and silt but in a cemented in body of water. Perhaps in a fountain in front of a new hotel.

Or in the 'rivers' of Jungle Cruise of Rivers of America!!

 

[mysto]

I would think close to zero - they are requiring a lot of maintenance and are permanently installed, so won't be easy to remove in one piece. I could see them using components of them (basing reusing scraps) - but shipping them in anything close to completed state I think is not going to happen

Those are powerful pumps. They could be re-used in some kind of water attraction, maybe involving some IP. Not sure where they're building anything like that.