News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
Why is Epcot the park where the use of IP in the nighttime spectacular is questioned when all the parks, even the non castle parks, have them?
It's mostly because of Epcot's history (for those of us that are old enough to remember or those versed enough in the lore of it). EPCOT Center opened with no characters except those created for the park. Since then, it's been a continual creep in their integration. As much as all of us old timers may moan about it, the masses have always been questioning where Mickey and the princesses are. It's Epcot's version of best intentions gone awry. Much like how MK originally wasn't going to have PotC as the Imagineers had bigger/different aspirations in mind with the Western River Expedition and Thunder Mesa. Unfortunately, the guests voted by their complaints and Pirates in truncated form was the result.

As to why the nighttime spectacular at Epcot is a sore spot in particular, it's because up until 2019, the nights at Epcot were exempt from Walt Disney Studios intersecting with the kiss goodnight at a park that did (still?) skew more towards a refuge from the fantasy's offered up by the Studio. While we lost the character battle in the 80's, the nights until Illuminations sunset were the last bastion of a time and place now lost to history.

As much as you read the thoughts of people here (a forum that Disney Parks fans seek out to read and even fewer create accounts and even fewer post their thoughts), we are the minority. Much like in the halcyon days of cable TV, where there were 300 channels and still people would claim - "nothing is on", the vast majority want the reassuring familiarity of the "known" experience instead of embracing what is unique and different. They go to WDW and they want to tune in (or toon in?) to the Mickey and Princess channel everywhere they go. Those that want to go Disney Parks to experience something that ONLY exists at a Disney Park have to come to grips that these days that means that "unique" experience is most likely going to come with a heavy coating of Disney IP gravy all over the top of it.

Since I'm typing away, I'll share my thoughts on Luminous based on what I've seen online. I'll see it in person next month. It's a course correction from the errors of Harmonious that is for certain. It swings the pendulum back towards what was once and not what is; but, still obviously has the overall mandate of including IP. I appreciate the return of a show based on tone and mood established by color and music in lieu of projected images. I also appreciate the symphonic score for the most part (have issues with the Toys execution as it's too similar to other shows) as it lends itself to being more adult in nature. The use of pyro, lasers, and fountains are good for the most part; but, they unfortunately "show their hand" too early and don't leave enough in the bag for a climax. This is something that HEA absolutely nails with Tink's flight as it has never been better in any show at MK. Here, the perimeter/seawall execution works best as a surprise and using it so early spoils that; but, using it as part of the nation's introductions is a great effect. Sadly, they don't have as much impact later in the show and the finale in my opinion is lacking because of it. Harmonious had the boom arm launchers and heavy perimeters to rely on and even that wasn't as effective as Illuminations flurry of roman candles lighting up World Showcase. If something like the roman candle barrage could be added to the outer ring of the new rafts, it would certainly help... if not that, then maybe just throw us old timers a bone and play Tapestry, Promise, or We Go On at some point in the post show.
 

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
Yes, they're intentional. It happens multiple times through the show. I was pleasantly surprised to see them return from RoE.


Also, my god that center barge is so brilliant.
I think this show may have been roughly planned already on the drawing board and scraped well before harmonious and before we have ever known about it. I thought they would be lacking on fountains when I first saw the barges but they couldn’t have done them any better, having a giant fountain is beyond my wildest dreams and thought these kind of shows were a thing in the past. Blows my mind how clever that design was I thought only the grades from the past could make this kind of set up. To be honest, I think this is the show that they really wanted to do all along.
 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Current poll check-in:
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waltography

Well-Known Member
There's just so much to love about this show. I love both original songs (and am eagerly awaiting their release on streaming), love the concept, love the heart effect at the very end, and it flows much better than Harmonious. Middle section drags a bit; I like what the narration was saying, but would rather see it for myself than be told what each segment is, as it's very show notes-y. Also would've liked for them to keep the multi-language singing throughout all stages of life. I wish they kept the perimeter until the end and used the torches instead to acknowledge each country. The tie-in to SSE points of light is genuinely stunning; the whole park feels like it comes alive for the show because of it.

It's not perfect but it leaves me with the kind of grand optimistic feeling I leave EPCOT with, and for that I think it's a success. (Now if they can do this again but with even more original orchestration!) Already considering a trip next summer just to see this show in person.
 

TheEPCOTHistorian

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Night 3's crowd reactions were probably the best. They were truly engaged.

Also, the second post-show song, One Heart, sounds like a mix between a Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo song. It's... yeah. A song.
 

gerarar

Premium Member
Lots of missing shells/misfires tonight.

eg. in the finale, some of the heart-shaped fireworks that fly in the air were missing.
 

TheEPCOTHistorian

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I do have to say, I think there's a lot more meaning to One Little Spark than most suspect.

The torches turn off at 9:57, and One Little Spark starts. It plays in complete darkness. I don't think the song is meant to be interpreted as a post show song, rather, EPCOT's 'kiss goodnight' (remember that?) It serves as a beautiful reminder of the values EPCOT hopes to instill upon it's guests, a beautiful final note of the day.
 

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
If we're lucky, we'll get Luminous B then. The current version good enough but if they could drop the forced IP songs then we would have an amazing show. This hardware is truly perfect for Epcot. We're so close to the perfect show, it just needs management to know we don't need IP.

And just think, this is the show we got with budget cuts and a rushed timeline. I really do wonder what the original trick this show was going to have that was cut nearly a year ago because that middle barge is so good. I still miss the globe and think every Epcot show should have one but surprise of "sphere of pyro" out of nowhere was so great.


Fun fact: They ran the Epcot anniversary tag for Moonlight magic a few months after the 40th. Quite funny but extremely disappointing.
I have a feeling Epcot Forever is going to be the new DVC/ anniversary tag now.
 

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
I truly think SSE becoming the globe is the only homage they added last minute.

Everything else, like the hello from each country, seem to be remnants from previous unfinished or short lived IllumiNations shows pre-Harmonious.

Nobody has mentioned the absolute chills inducing moment when the narration says "voices echo back, in chorus" and the pavilions light up in call/response with the music.
Have you seen it in person? think the single voice is coming from audio in the barges
 

WorldExplorer

Well-Known Member
Did anyone else enjoy Epcot Forever more than HarmoniUS?

Absolutely. If nothing else, Epcot Forever actually delivered what it promised in that it celebrated Epcot, whereas Harmonious had a lot of nice words to say about what it was supposedly about but very little to actually back it up.

My favorite part was the blend of One Little Spark and Veggie Veggie Fruit Fruit. It seemed nuts, which made it fun.
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
Would never happen but I’d happily support an early show of Epcot Forever, even with the fireworks cut back, as a sort of warm up to Luminous. Why not two different shows each night in the WSL? Might even help with earlier dinner bookings.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
The whole IP v. non-IP debate is mired in bad nomenclature -- it's all IP.

The two sides are better called:
  • *pre-existing* IP (that has appeared in a movie, TV show, or some other context), and,
  • *newly-created* IP.

Both have their pros and cons.

The *pre-existing* IP is being recontextualized for a new attraction. The recontextualization could be "shoe horned in" or "rammed down our throats." In this case, it's used simply because it's popular. It's a tangent to a story that doesn't fit. This can happen when your new show needs a certain theme, e.g., you want two people singing about how their friendship brings them joy and makes them a family.... and all you got is Friend In Me, which is oversued, or, Friend Like Me, which really isn't the message you want (since it's not about two people singing about the joy of their friendship).

On the other hand, it could be done quite well when the original context fits the new context. "I See the Light" fits very well for any context of a new, budding romance.

And so, it is the newly-created music that has a much better chance of getting across the theme and message one wants to convey. It can be tailored specifically for the context. BUT... it's brand new. And is the song itself... *good*? A new song hasn't had the chance to be tested with crowds. It could be wildly popular. It could be a dud.

And that's the advantage of the pre-existing IP... you already know it's popular. Put a bunch of popular songs in a show and you're much more likely to get a popular show.

As time has passed, Disney has amassed a pretty hefty 'Disney songbook' of hits that it didn't have 20, 30, or 40 years ago. People want the band on the stage to play their famous hits, not their new songs... that's why the came to their concert. And so it's what many people expect. And it's what management encourages for that sweet synergistic merchandising franchise.

Luminous was made with pre-existing and new music. And did some clever things like using only the lick from Into the Unknown, without any of its lyrics. It unfortunately overused the two 'friends songs.'

Anyhoo, I'll leave you all with a mind-blowing thought: Epcot Forever recontextualized the music from previous attractions, so, it rammed IP down our throats!!
 

TTA94

Well-Known Member
Unpopular idea I’m sure but what if for a special event perhaps they brought back Harmonious? But obviously just the soundtrack with the new infrastructure. I don’t see why they couldn’t. Yes it would need to be re programmed, but not impossible.
 

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