osian
Well-Known Member
What could be "more Disney" than Epcot itself?
The problem we've got is that it was a disingenuous phrase meant to sound genuine and reasonable but the hidden intent behind it was "more Disney brands cross-promotion".
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News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
What could be "more Disney" than Epcot itself?
The problem we've got is that it was a disingenuous phrase meant to sound genuine and reasonable but the hidden intent behind it was "more Disney brands cross-promotion".
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
just like G+
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
well, then you have EPCOT forever which is all about EPCOT (which I love)
but yeah, majority of guests want to see Disney characters/IP - I just hope they use it well
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
So the guests who liked Illuminations from 1988-2019 weren’t the majority of guests?
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see the reviews over time
I know, anecdotally, I heard a LOT more "Illuminations is boring" during the later years of it's run and it did run for ~14 years
Show consistently scored high and kept restaurants and park full til closing.
I know it’s tempting to use anecdotal data, but overall that was why the show lasted so long …
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
well, anecdotally I never heard anyone rave about Harmonious. Did you?
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
you have the data that showed it was consistently high? I know over it's life it scored well but you have it over time?
I know overall Touring Plans data shows that Illuminations scored slightly higher than Harmoniuous overall - a bit better among younger people and a bit worse among older people
and I saw parks more full with Harmonius than the last few years of Illuminations (though I guess I have outlier experiences as every time I saw Harmonius it was pretty crowded and everyone love the show/sang along/etc)
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
absolutely - quite a few actually ... always was surrounded by people loving it, singing a long, often some crying with emotion
Per Touring Plans it scored higher than Illuminations among younger people
ULPO46
Well-Known Member
See the thing about Illuminations in later years, was it wasn't a popular analytical show. 8-10 repeat guest surveyed by the analytics team that you see going around the parks in their checkered shirts and iPad's were told they didn't understand the plot line. In truth the celebration wasn't meant to last that long, at most Illuminations was originally intended to be retired around 2005, 3 years after the millenium celebrations were all but gone from EPCOT. Again it was extended to 2007 when the wand was removed and then kept on going and going until 2019 when it was announced the show would be replaced.
The thing is, I'm well known for having loved Illuminations for two fold, it's how and where I met my now wife, she worked at the Mexico Pavillion on her ICP and now is a manager with Palmas which controls the two restaraunts and shops at the pavillion. The other is the plot. The plot however boring it was to the masses, was one of unity. As the spiel went gathering around the fire towers at world showcase to tell the story of communication and story telling all around the world.
It used fire barges, fireworks, and a primative by todays standards LED lit Sphere which when it worked 100% was an amazing display. There wasn't a time I would miss the show when ever I was working at the resort in Florida, thats how much I loved the show, in fact I remember buying the record and later burning it to now play on my phone when ever I get nostalgic or throw my own fireworks display during the holidays or the 4th of July.
Future shows will sadly involve a little too much IP which is great but, thats what Magic Kingdom for all intents and purposes is for. As EPCOT gears forward to become more than half a day park for Families, these IP's will start to pop up a lot more than what you saw in Harmonious. But again it's all about the optics. For those like me who lived, breathed, fell in love with, and still sing the songs, Illuinations will forever be one of the greatest shows Imagineering has put together at the Walt Disney World Resort. Topping that off, not only is the greatest challenge in a ever critical market, but also needs to be worth it. Each show cost around 85-90 thousand USD depending on the price of natural gas as well as the TNT purchased. It has to make sense, have great plot line that wont bore guest whether they're families are with them or they sucessfully drank around the world showcase without passing out.
That's what hopefully this next show will incur. But the reality is what goes on behind closed doors, what shareholders want, and what current upper management want's feels like an utter smack in the face to the true fans of EPCOT. EPCOT is not and never will be Magic Kingdom. But that in it's own sense is enough to start an entire thread. As this current administration believes EPCOT's purpose as an educational park is dated and unworthy of it's rich 40+ year history, who knows where we will be heading. But hopefully it will just be a temporary mess that within time, we can get a CEO with the vision to bring back the spark of ingenuity, creativity, and love that has made the Walt Disney Company so beloved and valued for the last 100 years. IP can and will work if allowed to do what we'd like, but than again there's always that small percentage that wont be satisfied. But for now, lets thank the Phonecians that those awful eyesore of a barge will like illumnations get to "dance" during the day so our guest can enjoy photo ops.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
just for the record - I LOVED Illuminations, my wife and I made an extra trip to see Illuminations one last time ... we got buttons made up saying we were celebrating one last viewing of Illuminations ... non of my posts are anti-illumintions .....
... but I understand things change and evolve and "get" why Disney management would want to utilize all the IP they have that no one else can leverage. I just hope they use it the right way to add to the emotion and the story of the show, and not just a crutch
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
And that wasn’t my experience at all. I never experienced that for harmonious.
Is touring plans scores rated on data?
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
yes, they survey their users/guests and get thousands of response ... obviously just a subset of the total of Disney guests but pretty significant
And obviously I have a small sample size, but I did see it 4 times and all 4 times it was like that and it was over 3 spread out trips, wasn't like just when it was new
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that your anecdotal experience is that you see people overtly disappointed or just that you don’t see people get emotional about it? I can believe the latter as I rarely if ever see that behavior at all; that seems a bit like streamer-supported fantasy unless we’re talking about a slight tear coming to the eye.
But if the former, I honestly think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone upfront at a Disney nighttime show actively complaining or expressing disappointment unless there’s an actual malfunction. Maybe the chat experience is different if you’re in the swirl of folks not watching the show or dining, but having attended nearly every show at one point or another, I have never witnessed people critiquing them live or grumbling about the quality. Worst I’ve seen was confusion at the EPCOT Forever score from people with no knowledge of the old attractions.
More nuanced opinions obviously come out in surveys and attendance / dining figures, but I’m curious where someone would have to stand to hear a chorus of negativity.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Not overtly disappointed but I did hear a few comments like “where are the fireworks” and “is this it” - that’s definitely the minority though.
The only times I’ve seen people consistently get emotional at a fireworks show was at castle shows and during peace on earth finale at Epcot.
Kittlesona
Active Member
I was the person overtly disappointed if we want to keep throwing anecdotes. I thought the amazing technology they had (the taco barges really had same cool tricks) was horrifically underutilized and I legitimately didn’t know when the show was over. It never reached a place of emotional climax to me and I walked away very disappointed after assuming that everything I had seen online was over exaggeration.
Meanwhile EPCOT Forever felt like a complete story even though it had FAR less tricks (and for the record I was born in 1993 so most of the “nostalgia” in that show is before my time). I would take EPCOT Forever ANY day over Harmonious. ROE (WE GO ON!) and Wishes would make me cry every time.
Vinnie Mac
Well-Known Member
You are not going to like the real answer to this question...
Starship824
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I know this will be very unpopular opinion around here however, I actually quite liked Harmonious, I watched it in between the two shops behind spaceship Earth and I thought it was visually stunning and the music was good with some great emotional parts. However it was far from a perfect show, the barges in the lagoon all day were not worth it, it wasn't a 360 show which is essential to an Epcot show and other than different languages it really had nothing to do with Epcot.
TTA94
Well-Known Member
I agree. I also kind of wish this new show would keep the name Harmonious. It wasn’t a bad name. I don’t think that’s the plan though because if it was they would have already told us Harmonious was returning in a all new way.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
I actually don't think that's unpopular. The misplacement in Epcot and It's hardware limits - all of which you highlighted - are the problem. If they had built a theater like Fantasmic and this was in a castle or studios park (or even Disney Sea), I think it would have had much higher ratings. I do think it was a little shallow compared to other shows, but that could be fixed. It was just a poor choice for Epcot, especially following ROE.