Captain Hank
Well-Known Member
Yup, it was me
. I'll have to dig it up.Edit: darn, I think it got lost during the migration from my old computer to my new computer.
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EPCOT to revive old logo!
- Thread starter Lost_in_hollywo
- Start date
. I'll have to dig it up.Edit: darn, I think it got lost during the migration from my old computer to my new computer.
JWG
Well-Known Member
Because the "new" logo isn't anything. It's not futuristic it's just strange. It doesn't "theme" at all. If you're going to have a text logo that will stand time just go to the original because it was simple and easily distinguished. Is it futuristic? Not necessarily, but it's a logo not an attraction. Logos aren't meant to be changed every 5-10 years.
The original logo, in my mind, isn't going backwards. It's restoring the identity of the park. By that, I mean it's restoring what identifies Epcot as Epcot and nothing more. I don't think it's about "better" or "worse" or "classic". It's just what people recognize, looks cleaner (again, in my mind) than the current and stands time well because of it's simplicity and lack of timebound characteristics.
That's all pure opinion though, I'm sure plenty disagree.
SDav10495
Member
You're right, the logos are really not outdated at all. Had Disney never done away with the original logos--had they just made them look a little fresher over the years--I highly doubt anyone here would be complaining that they were "soooo 80s". They were a futuristic, bold, and brilliant graphic solution to the problem of unifying what could have been an all-over-the-place park.
As it is, however, the idea of re-introducing the logos is met with harsh reaction by a handful of fans because it triggers all those arguments about Epcot "moving backwards" and how (let's face it) insufferable EPCOT Center fans can be about that topic. My guess is, for most opponents of the old logos, their opinion has less to do with disliking the designs as much as disliking the purists who worship the designs.
So I'll be the first to admit--we hardcore EPCOT Center fans are probably the most annoying bunch in the WDW fandom. That alone earns us a number of "enemies" (if I can use such a term for a WDW message board). Often I roll my eyes at our own sermonizing and I think many of us could definitely tone it down at times, because really, EPCOT Center wasn't perfect. But I will never, ever believe that our position is one based in shallow nostalgia, as we are so often attacked for. I'll never believe that there's no substance behind our arguments except rose-colored childhood memories. EPCOT Center truly got a lot right, and the idea that we should learn from the park's early successes (and later mistakes) is hardly naive or backwards--in fact, it would be downright foolish not to do so. It's not a matter of Museum vs. Theme Park. So just as I think we EPCOT purists should be wary of blindly proclaiming that EPCOT Center was the be-all and end-all, I think it's equally important that our "opponents" not treat every proposal to bring back the "good old days" as poisonous folly spewed by nostalgic EPCOT foamers.
Can we agree that perhaps that this matter is not so black and white? We don't always have to choose strictly between "Party Like it's 1982" and "Never Look Back", people.
Mikieboy84
New Member
So I'll be the first to admit--we hardcore EPCOT Center fans are probably the most annoying bunch in the WDW fandom. That alone earns us a number of "enemies" (if I can use such a term for a WDW message board). Often I roll my eyes at our own sermonizing and I think many of us could definitely tone it down at times, because really, EPCOT Center wasn't perfect. But I will never, ever believe that our position is one based in shallow nostalgia, as we are so often attacked for. I'll never believe that there's no substance behind our arguments except rose-colored childhood memories. EPCOT Center truly got a lot right, and the idea that we should learn from the park's early successes (and later mistakes) is hardly naive or backwards--in fact, it would be downright foolish not to do so. It's not a matter of Museum vs. Theme Park. So just as I think we EPCOT purists should be wary of blindly proclaiming that EPCOT Center was the be-all and end-all, I think it's equally important that our "opponents" not treat every proposal to bring back the "good old days" as poisonous folly spewed by nostalgic EPCOT foamers.
Can we agree that perhaps that this matter is not so black and white? We don't always have to choose strictly between "Party Like it's 1982" and "Never Look Back", people.[/quote]
Wow, I don't think you could have put it better. I'm an EPCOT Center purist as well, but I try not to be irrational about it. I love the logos and agree they make sense for the old and new attractions. I also think the whole retro vibe is great for those of us who love old school Epcot. I am NOT however opposed to new ideas and changes to make the park more current, and I certainly don't want it turned into a museum. I just don't want the original feel of the park to be abandoned.
Can we agree that perhaps that this matter is not so black and white? We don't always have to choose strictly between "Party Like it's 1982" and "Never Look Back", people.[/quote]
Wow, I don't think you could have put it better. I'm an EPCOT Center purist as well, but I try not to be irrational about it. I love the logos and agree they make sense for the old and new attractions. I also think the whole retro vibe is great for those of us who love old school Epcot. I am NOT however opposed to new ideas and changes to make the park more current, and I certainly don't want it turned into a museum. I just don't want the original feel of the park to be abandoned.
tirian
Well-Known Member
It is easy to have a "futuristic" theme without dusting off old logos. New and improved, moving forward...that's the idea.
Things like that are usually called museums, or landmarks.
No...it's not. I know you want it to be, but that doesn't make it so.
Then why the desire for an old, worn out logo. Is it purely for sentimental value? Again, that is for museums. I don't ever pretend to know the intentions of other...that is strictly for the arrogant, but I would like to believe Walt might not want to bring back an old image to help with change and improvement.
For not pretending, you did a good job putting words in my mouth.
Since I am actually in this industry (branding and whatnot) and know what I'm talking about, I'm not going to waste my time responding to this nonsense.
But I will state this in general: I am personally not advocating a return to the old logos or font. I am, however, happy to see that the team responsible for updating Epcot realizes that symbols are very futuristic, and they are bringing the concept back. The sans-serif "Epcot 94" font on the dedication monument looks just as outdated as the original EPCOT Center font.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Correct. :wave: Don't worry; Epcot isn't turning into a museum. It's finally getting the update that it needs!
There was a post that mentioned that Epcot never had a purpose other than to make money. I couldn't tell whether or not it was pure sarcasm, but I hope not. Every business needs to have multiple purposes for success. The MK is here to make money AND to provide a fantasy-filled escape for families. Epcot is here to make money AND to inspire people with the natural world.
I can't speak for others here, but I am definitely not a naive Disney-head. I know that it's a business, but every successful business has to have principles that guide its purpose. I'm happy to see that Epcot is returning to its identity through its new attractions. As a designer, I know that graphics/marketing/branding are integral parts of identity.
So "YES," the typeface and logos do matter. YES, Epcot needs to return to its identity (or "purpose" or "spirit" or whatever you choose to call it). NO, that does not mean that everything has to look exactly like it did in 1982.
That's all for today. I'm tired of arguing semantics with 14-year-olds.
DisneyDellsDude
New Member
Well if they do change logos, now would be the perfect time. With MGM changing to DHS, they could update signs to add the new DHS and EPCOT names.
jt04
Well-Known Member
This is why I find this forum so fascinating. It is creative thinking like this that is often better than what actually happens. Very good!
Sam Eagle 1776
Member
If they go back to the new logo, how will the new gear be vintage? However, i woudn't be too surprised if they went back to the old logo with the wand being removed and all.
PaisleyMF
Active Member
Think about this, Logos are meant to be a way to identify a Brand, Nike's Swoosh, Apple's well bitten apple, NBC the peacock, is a universal way to identify, like Men and women bathroom "icon" or the no smoking sign.
The use of the Icons on Epcot was a brilliant idea and the return of the Flower is a good one.
Actually SSE has a new icon doesn't it?
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They just need to create and update what there.
The use of the Icons on Epcot was a brilliant idea and the return of the Flower is a good one.
Actually SSE has a new icon doesn't it?
They just need to create and update what there.
SDav10495
Member
Actually SSE has a new icon doesn't it?
They just need to create and update what there.
Well, sort of...that's not exactly the logo of SSE--it's that swirl with a globe in the center. That's just the logo for the post-show "Super Driver" game, and there's a similar one for the check-up game.
But it highlights one of the best things about the old logos, and one of the reasons it's great Siemens is trying to bring logos back (though some have critiqued them): the three logos, with their graphic similarities, all identify their attractions as being part of the same entity--Siemens' Spaceship Earth. That's what the EPCOT Center logos did--each pavilion tackled an entirely different subject from the next, but the unified font and the similar logos helped guests make the connection between them. It made the park, which many accuse of being too cerebral, a much more natural and comfortable experience.
And you're right about brand recognition. The original EPCOT logo, and the individual pavilion logos, instantly said "EPCOT" to any WDW guest. I can't tell you how many people still recognize them when I walk down the street in a shirt featuring the pavilion logos. That's why, without even getting into whether the logos appealed to you or not, it's astounding to me that Disney got rid of them. For a company that's so driven by marketing and brand recognition, they totally eliminated a graphic gem that they could have banked on for years to come--and didn't even replace it with anything comparable! Funny how the "lyke omg give epcot a makeover" craze of the mid-to-late-90s was born out of the idea that the average guest couldn't easily define EPCOT Center, yet what resulted was an even more confusing identity crisis (at least graphically speaking).
I'm not even here to say that new Epcot is any worse than old EPCOT (though perhaps you can guess at my opinion), but there's no denying the old logos did their job and did them well. As I've said in the past, you can like the changes in new Epcot all you want--I adore a number of them--but it's plain that they weren't implemented with the same foresight, care, and concern for park unity as was seen at the park's opening. Given how strong a "brand" EPCOT Center was for many years, that's rather lazy for a company that's supposed to be able to market its way out of a paper bag.
ETA: Sheesh, I apologize for the novel-length posts tonight...
jt04
Well-Known Member
Bravo. You said perfectly what many think! The details do matter. Thanks!
ciscobee
Member
The EPCOT logo's are back? If that is the case,... it is definately about time. The posts in this thread have covered everything except "what's next"? I mean, I hardly believe the big cheese sat down at the boardroom table and suggested "let's bring back the logo's", "that will quiet the legions of Horizon's fans out there." There has to be more to this.
I believe this is a stepping stone move. And that a change in branding is in order, and why not go with something trusted, proven, and nostalgic?
Next up for Epcot:
Millenium Village, back in action. Renamed, rebadged, and like the food and wine fest all year long.
Wonders of Life, torn down. (I don't want it to happen either, but its going to)
Universe of Energy. Complete redo. With a "Green Theme" and the worlds first high def theater attraction. (not sure what that means)
Africa, gone. New country with a full pavilion.
HISTA, gone. New 3-D movie starring "Shutterbug"
Friendship Boats, gone. New highspeed rail system located just off the water in the lagoon, think l-train/subway only fancy on a continuous loop. with A/C
If not these things, then something. Ideas welcome!
I believe this is a stepping stone move. And that a change in branding is in order, and why not go with something trusted, proven, and nostalgic?
Next up for Epcot:
Millenium Village, back in action. Renamed, rebadged, and like the food and wine fest all year long.
Wonders of Life, torn down. (I don't want it to happen either, but its going to)
Universe of Energy. Complete redo. With a "Green Theme" and the worlds first high def theater attraction. (not sure what that means)
Africa, gone. New country with a full pavilion.
HISTA, gone. New 3-D movie starring "Shutterbug"
Friendship Boats, gone. New highspeed rail system located just off the water in the lagoon, think l-train/subway only fancy on a continuous loop. with A/C
If not these things, then something. Ideas welcome!
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
To be passionate about EPCOT Center, one must express their feeling about the EPCOT state of mind.
EPCOT is different than any of the other Disney parks. The first permanent world's fair. The first time Disney branched away from the Magic Kingdom, and opened a second gate at a Disney resort.
One can easily find long lines at various attractions at EPCOT Center throughout the 80s in pictures. I completely agree the park had sloping attendance, and some people out there were never satisified with edutainment. So in order to still make money, Disney changed some of the park, mostl the future world section.
I think this is why there are those here who can say they found balance in EPCOT 94 and EPCOT 95. Some things had to change, but it wasn't excesively done like they did with the Millenium Celebration.
Logos, so many of them, are bold, and simple, and somehow always identifiable. The current Epcot global O logo was really just a 90s computer graphic fad, seems like so much of the remake of innoventions plaza with the neon and diamond walkway had something to do with that in the 90s.
Since retro is still popular, one could say bringing back the flower logo, or a new flower logo would make sense, but even in the long run, it and the EPCOT Center matched their post modern era they were designed for.
It doesn't mean it becomes completely outdated, it just finds its place.....in the fall of 1982. :lookaroun
Oh and besides, then you'll still have the average tourist buying flower logo merchandise if they once again explained what the heck it was on park flyers if they were to revive the logo.
EPCOT is different than any of the other Disney parks. The first permanent world's fair. The first time Disney branched away from the Magic Kingdom, and opened a second gate at a Disney resort.
One can easily find long lines at various attractions at EPCOT Center throughout the 80s in pictures. I completely agree the park had sloping attendance, and some people out there were never satisified with edutainment. So in order to still make money, Disney changed some of the park, mostl the future world section.
I think this is why there are those here who can say they found balance in EPCOT 94 and EPCOT 95. Some things had to change, but it wasn't excesively done like they did with the Millenium Celebration.
Logos, so many of them, are bold, and simple, and somehow always identifiable. The current Epcot global O logo was really just a 90s computer graphic fad, seems like so much of the remake of innoventions plaza with the neon and diamond walkway had something to do with that in the 90s.
Since retro is still popular, one could say bringing back the flower logo, or a new flower logo would make sense, but even in the long run, it and the EPCOT Center matched their post modern era they were designed for.
It doesn't mean it becomes completely outdated, it just finds its place.....in the fall of 1982. :lookaroun
Oh and besides, then you'll still have the average tourist buying flower logo merchandise if they once again explained what the heck it was on park flyers if they were to revive the logo.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Off Topic:
You're right. For example, the design industry considers the new AT&T logo (the 3-D sphere) to be awful, because everything about it is a current fad (gradients, CGI logos) that will be outdated sooner than AT&T can change everything. And the logo looks bad when it's printed on paper, too.
I don't think that the Epcot "O" logo is quite as bad as that, but it wouldn't hurt for Disney to finally give Epcot a logo that matches the park's futurism and doesn't seem tied to a specific time period. (Sorry, I find the EPCOT Center logo to be retro-cool, but not modern enough.)
tirian
Well-Known Member
:sohappy: Bravo. Somebody else agrees with me.
I still can't believe that Disney dropped Epcot's identity in the 90s; a company that is studied for its marketing finesse gave its most unique theme park an ID crisis by trying to cram it into the overused "Disney Is Magic" mold. The symbols unified the Future World pavilions and still look futuristic.
I'm glad to see that as Epcot receives its necessary updates (it is, after all, supposed to be futuristic), WDI has rediscovered the importance of graphic recognition.
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I've had time to really look in depth on the boards, but once I saw this thread I thought "I wonder what wannab@dis thinks about this rumor?" and now it appears he's back. First and foremost welcome back to the boards! Long time no see.
Personally I'd love to see any new kind of logos that are throwback to the original logos. Which is EXACTLY what the new Siemens SSE logo looks like. And if they brought things back that were exactly like the 80's version, naturally I wouldn't be upset. I can see why some wouldn't like that, but it wouldn't bother me. I bought the new EPCOT Center hat from WDW Mail Order so I obviously love the old logo and I'll buy just about any kind of WDW (especially Epcot) retro merchandise. If I had the choice, I'd actually rather have updated logos (a la new SSE) for every new FW attraction, but either way I'd be happy if this rumor is true. I'm still on cloud nine after wand removal and the wave of retro merchandise. Everything else is gravy
Personally I'd love to see any new kind of logos that are throwback to the original logos. Which is EXACTLY what the new Siemens SSE logo looks like. And if they brought things back that were exactly like the 80's version, naturally I wouldn't be upset. I can see why some wouldn't like that, but it wouldn't bother me. I bought the new EPCOT Center hat from WDW Mail Order so I obviously love the old logo and I'll buy just about any kind of WDW (especially Epcot) retro merchandise. If I had the choice, I'd actually rather have updated logos (a la new SSE) for every new FW attraction, but either way I'd be happy if this rumor is true. I'm still on cloud nine after wand removal and the wave of retro merchandise. Everything else is gravy
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
What you said makes sense to me :shrug:
I think some people have such a hatred for EPCOT Center and anything older than 10 years at the parks that the notion of bringing anything back to the way it used to be just bothers them.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Yep. I've noticed that people often jump on the boards and scream about "not moving backwards" without knowing what anyone is actually talking about.
If we're not going to move backwards, let's forget Alien Encounter, too.
Just kidding. :wave:
dxwwf3
Well-Known Member
If we're not going to move backwards, let's forget Alien Encounter, too.
When SGE opened, that was a big enough move "backwards"