EPCOT... I never knew....

[Scar Junior]

It seems like the whole plan did a 180 degree change from what Walt invisioned.

I hear people harp about how Epcot was ruined and I agreed with it until I thought about it more conceptually. If you look at Walt Disney World conceptually rather than literally, the degree of difference isn't 180 at all. The Florida Project was to be a place where people live, work and play ... an experiment in combining private and public sectors.

Here are a few examples that in my opinion show how WDW is closer (conceptually) to what Walt wanted than people think:

- Town of Celebration + CP, CS and Internationals live and study there... you can even get a masters degree in business on Disney property!
- There are currently two night-time districts. Additionally, I believe that the 450 acre western expansion district (of dining, retail and lodging) will contribute to a town/city concept. 450 acres is huge!
- "Public" Transportation network that operates in the roads, waterways and in the sky. This surpasses many metropolitan areas as far as ridership and satisfaction are concerned. Still no train/lightrail/mag-lev but there's still time...
- There are acting government agencies that are recognized by the state and federal governments. Everything from enviornmental issues to fire protection to medical clinics are on property.
- Similarly, WDW has received millions and millions of dollars in bonds and subsidies, as Walt wanted/negotiated and as every municipality does.
- There is a world renown sports complex, as well as public golf courses. This is important to note because municipalities compete over (and stuggle to fund) such facilities.
- Innovative uses of technology that exist on property - though some are a decade or more old - don't exist in most of the communities in America. From transportation to energy sources to enviornmentality and other technological advancements, the Florida Project is still a 'prototype' for American cities.



There are more examples but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. And I have Campus Rep stuff to do in the morning, so I have to get some sleep... our CP presentations and interviews are this week.

Basically, I know WDW is not very close to the Florida Project that was promised and pitched... but when you don't take a literal read of the Florida Project, you may see that the difference isn't as big as you originally thought. Sure, some holes can be punched in my arguments, but I'm not speaking specifically about Walt's vision or concept art - nor do I view myself as a Disney apologist. I just think that more should be appreciated and less should be lamented.

-Brad

 

[Scar Junior]

I think Walt would have been the only person able to make it work. If anyone else tried it would have been a failure.

There's a good chance that he would have failed as well! As I read more about him I keep learning how often he failed. That's what amazes me about him. He never gave up!

Sorry for the double post, but this caught my eye.

-Brad

 

[marni1971]

As Scar Junior said, the real EPCOT is all around WDW. This was first mentioned in a 1972 Architecture Review article looking at the infrastructure of the World; roads going under water to maintain the impeccable landscape, computers monitoring every system from a central control, digital phone system, fibre optic cables -all underground, the transport system, the Utilidors, AVAC, automatic flood control, sewage treatment, the CHP plant - just a few examples. Phase one (and indeed phase two) was probably one of the most ambitious planned and controlled complexes anywhere in the real world.

 

[NASAMan]

There are many aspects of the original EPCOT plan that would never have worked in the Florida area...for example transportation was 3-5 stories underground, which would only work if you had gills....

Even if Walt were alive, the original design as layed out in the model would never have been built.

Rather, transportation was at ground level - everything else was 3-5 stories above that, ala Magic Kingdom and the Utilidors.

There's a good chance that he would have failed as well! As I read more about him I keep learning how often he failed. That's what amazes me about him. He never gave up!
-Brad

I might disagree that Walt never gave up on anything, but you bring up a great point of his attitude toward failure. Students today know little of failure. When faced with failure, Walt we see a way to move forward and adjust his course. Schools are eliminating lessons of failure, ever child is always successful to the point where no lesson is learned and they are unprepared for real life. Walt failed because he tried. He tried new, innovative ideas that sometimes would not work. But the thing is he tried. And his dream of EPCOT lives, only spread across the country in his innovations advancing planned communities, technology integration, and even indoor shopping malls.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

As Scar Junior said, the real EPCOT is all around WDW. This was first mentioned in a 1972 Architecture Review article looking at the infrastructure of the World; roads going under water to maintain the impeccable landscape, computers monitoring every system from a central control, digital phone system, fibre optic cables -all underground, the transport system, the Utilidors, AVAC, automatic flood control, sewage treatment, the CHP plant - just a few examples. Phase one (and indeed phase two) was probably one of the most ambitious planned and controlled complexes anywhere in the real world.

Yes, I agree with that. People don't seem to grasp adjustment to a vision and while not necessarily meeting the originally stated goals, that many milestones have been reached and the idea has moved forward. Indeed, the EPCOT idea has continued to move forward.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Rather, transportation was at ground level - everything else was 3-5 stories above that, ala Magic Kingdom and the Utilidors.


I might disagree that Walt never gave up on anything, but you bring up a great point of his attitude toward failure. Students today know little of failure. When faced with failure, Walt we see a way to move forward and adjust his course. Schools are eliminating lessons of failure, ever child is always successful to the point where no lesson is learned and they are unprepared for real life. Walt failed because he tried. He tried new, innovative ideas that sometimes would not work. But the thing is he tried. And his dream of EPCOT lives, only spread across the country in his innovations advancing planned communities, technology integration, and even indoor shopping malls.

You may be right, but that's not what I've read on the subject. Transportation and utilities were to be underground and not seen. Only roadways to an extent were at ground level.

 

[head mouse]

As I write, I try to keep seperate Walt's original plan (EPCOT) from the theme park (Epcot) by using those name variations.

As do I, but as far as I am concerned. Epcot does not exist.As you said. it's a made up word. EPCOT means somethings and can exist.