• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

EPCOT HOrizons question

Status
Not open for further replies.

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Grizz - dig up what you can! Horizons demise is ending up bigger than the attraction was!

I must say I doubt the sinkhole theory (as I said earlier, why build 4 centrifuges on such an area), but you have to admit that with a sinkhole either side (UoE and Odyssey lake) its not improbable. Then there was the CM ridethru after the attraction closed that was cancelled at the last minute, with NO access for anyone due to health and safety. And finally, as mentioned above by Expo, when Test Track went over schedule, Horizons did open again - hardly something that would be done to an unsafe building. This is becoming a myth!
 

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
Wow. Great info Grizz.

Anyway, here's something, the blowing up of Horizons was just a rumor. Nothing like that happened. Al Weiss and Compaq CEO were there and there was some exterior cosmetic fireworks, but nothing else. It actually took about one month after the announcement for deconstruction to begin.
 

General Grizz

New Member
I remember the night of the event, there were a few insiders on an Horizons insiders club discussing how the original plans were to implode the pavilion when Mickey hit the "SPACE" bar. . . I am still trying to find the complete story to this day!

EDIT: This was speculation before the event started, and I suppose it was never seriously considered. I wish I still had the video to this!
 

DarkMeasures

New Member
I was there when Horizons got destroyed! It was pretty awsome seeing it slowly be torn down into a pile of concrete. It was pretty slow, maybe just a small portion a day but it wasn't very orderly. Yeah, the pavilian probably wasn't destroyed in 15 seconds because of possible damage to the other pavilians but couldn't tarps protect WoM and UoE?

Judging from the time it took to tear down the building, I would say that there must have been something the engineers were worried about.

Now, about the Centerfuges. They are definitly mega heavy and would most likely cause their ground to collapse. I would say that a special nice and think foundation would be needed. Of course, couldn't sinkholes just be filled with concrete? Disney has money, that is probaby what they did. I don't think that this is what happened but I am saying it could be.

Now, I like the structural theory more. Even though the ride could be in perfect shape, the ride system would be scary to deal with. A suspended Omnimover, not very smart. Even though, as someone mentioned before, that Test Track is multilevel, you have to remember that Test Track is much lighter and is not suspended. With the Ominimover cars, there is constant strain on the track. It could be the same reason Rocket Rods is not open. (even though Rocket Rod's ride system is more similiar to Test Track, the strain came from a track that did not support high speeds and there were no banked turns).

Now I can see management, closing a ride for little and then needing it to reopen to control crowds due to the large amount of Future World attractions closed. Now, there has not been constant maintenence and there has not been really any rehabs (were there?), when the ride was closed. Now, the omnimovers have been hanging on the track for the whole time (other tracked rides, even TTA, have a storage shed for when the ride isn't operational, for Omnimovers, there is none). Also, Omnimovers are heavy like I said before, so this constant strain might have worried the management even if there were no real problems. You just don't want it to actually happen.

Now since Management was so scared to reopen Horizons, and the Space Pavilian was planned on coming, someone didn't want another ride lying closed for over 10 years. (as in 20K). So, Horizons was chosen to be replaced with Mission Space.

I should also point out that even though Mission Space only has the actual ride going for it right now, there is plenty of expansion room for the pavilian. When you exit the ride, you go through that long hallway around the outside of the Pavilian. the Truck/Maintenence doors prove this. But with those truck doors, you can also note that a majority of that back wall could be removed thus adding the possibility of a new postshow occupying the space from the exit to the back maintence road.

Before I end this, I should also mention the 3rd possibility of Horizons being closed. I Honestly don't think this would make since at all. Since I rode Horizons when I was 3, I don't remember anything but I have a good idea of what the ride was like. And From what I understand, there are many other Epcot attractions more out of date than Horizons. And even with that, there seems to justification to close the attraction for a buisness standpoint. (tax write off?). I think there must have been a problem that management was afraid of that might eventually injur guests.
 

Mickeyrulz

New Member
Original Poster
DarkMeasures said:
I was there when Horizons got destroyed! It was pretty awsome seeing it slowly be torn down into a pile of concrete. It was pretty slow, maybe just a small portion a day but it wasn't very orderly. Yeah, the pavilian probably wasn't destroyed in 15 seconds because of possible damage to the other pavilians but couldn't tarps protect WoM and UoE?

Judging from the time it took to tear down the building, I would say that there must have been something the engineers were worried about.

Now, about the Centerfuges. They are definitly mega heavy and would most likely cause their ground to collapse. I would say that a special nice and think foundation would be needed. Of course, couldn't sinkholes just be filled with concrete? Disney has money, that is probaby what they did. I don't think that this is what happened but I am saying it could be.

Now, I like the structural theory more. Even though the ride could be in perfect shape, the ride system would be scary to deal with. A suspended Omnimover, not very smart. Even though, as someone mentioned before, that Test Track is multilevel, you have to remember that Test Track is much lighter and is not suspended. With the Ominimover cars, there is constant strain on the track. It could be the same reason Rocket Rods is not open. (even though Rocket Rod's ride system is more similiar to Test Track, the strain came from a track that did not support high speeds and there were no banked turns).

Now I can see management, closing a ride for little and then needing it to reopen to control crowds due to the large amount of Future World attractions closed. Now, there has not been constant maintenence and there has not been really any rehabs (were there?), when the ride was closed. Now, the omnimovers have been hanging on the track for the whole time (other tracked rides, even TTA, have a storage shed for when the ride isn't operational, for Omnimovers, there is none). Also, Omnimovers are heavy like I said before, so this constant strain might have worried the management even if there were no real problems. You just don't want it to actually happen.

Now since Management was so scared to reopen Horizons, and the Space Pavilian was planned on coming, someone didn't want another ride lying closed for over 10 years. (as in 20K). So, Horizons was chosen to be replaced with Mission Space.

I should also point out that even though Mission Space only has the actual ride going for it right now, there is plenty of expansion room for the pavilian. When you exit the ride, you go through that long hallway around the outside of the Pavilian. the Truck/Maintenence doors prove this. But with those truck doors, you can also note that a majority of that back wall could be removed thus adding the possibility of a new postshow occupying the space from the exit to the back maintence road.

Before I end this, I should also mention the 3rd possibility of Horizons being closed. I Honestly don't think this would make since at all. Since I rode Horizons when I was 3, I don't remember anything but I have a good idea of what the ride was like. And From what I understand, there are many other Epcot attractions more out of date than Horizons. And even with that, there seems to justification to close the attraction for a buisness standpoint. (tax write off?). I think there must have been a problem that management was afraid of that might eventually injur guests.

Did I miss something? What's the Rocket Rods?
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Expo_Seeker40 said:
I still doubt the Horizons omvnimover building stress and/or sinkhole.

Come on people....General Electric was gone, it was all in the hands of Disney, as early as 1995-1996 Disney wanted to close Horizons. I found this written in a guidebook from that time period. Because World of Motion, and Universe of Energy were all going down for rehabs, this meant that the Wonders of Life pavilion would have been the only pavilion opened in future world east, you also have to take into account that communicore east was also being remodled into innoventions east.

So they had to keep something open. They decided to of course clear all General Electric refrences and the ride was kept open. Wow I guess they weren't talking about this sinkhole or building stress, I guess they must have risked guests lives, God forbid the building collapses in on them.

Yea know the world of motion also went from the first floor to the second floor, and there was never any building stress or sinkholes found. God it took years of bickering between General Motors and Disney to finally change the world of motion, Disney was pressuring them with a new ride and contract since 1993.

So now that Universe of Energy,Wonders of Life, Test Track, and Innoventions were now all open, Horizons finally looked good for Disney to close. They had a reason, after all they already had opened up everything else on future world east.

So on January 9th, 1999 Horizons closed for good. Yet this is the craziest thing, they let the building rot for just about a year, and they also let members of the press and Disney Corp to ride Horizons even after it was closed to the public. Wow I guess they weren't too nervous about risking *important* people's lives were they?

So then they finally begin to gut the back of the building and then take the ride interiors out. Oh and yes Horizons was the first building to actually be demolished, let alone the way it must have looked to guests watching this crumbling building infront of their own eyes, but just prior to the front entrance facade being demolished, Eisner and his buds at HP had a night gala over in front of Horizons were they blew up some part of the building, and then had a small fireworks gig along with it. Wow I guess they weren't gonna go expensive and just blow up the whole thing, maybe Mr. Sinkhole was down there screaming about it.

So then Mission: Space finally opens, a far cry, and shadow in what Horizons was, and nothing like the concieved pre 1982 Space Pavilion. Mission: Space was a mere rip off compared to Horizons. This was something Eisner and the board did do. He in fact othorized, along with the board to close Horizons and building a more lousy, less inspiring attraction in its place. 1999 was the year EPCOT Center or however you want to call it finally "died" and was killed off. Disney hated Horizons, and they wanted every excuse to tear it down.

:brick: There was no sinkhole, nor was there stress on the building! They knew about this when they built this, and I highly doubt it would take that many years for signs to occur. What an odd coincidence that they starting suppodedly finding a sink hole and building stress after the post 1996 future world east was completed, and General Electric was long gone. Let alone if the building was so unsafe, they would just let it sit there for nearly a year, and actually let some memebers of Disney and the press go back in and ride it.

EXCUSES. EXCUSES. There was no need to tear down Horizons. Rather then spend their own money in finding a new sponsor, and updating the ride, they tor it down, and there is no reason why they did. The result of Horizons, that being Mission: Space is like getting a small 5 inch plastic telescope from a cereal advertisment, when they outsmart the children into thinking it's gonna be a huge real working telescope. AKA Cheap lousy results, and lies, with a product that can't allow everyone to "play" with.

Where was all this information when the rumors were around? Why are they just now coming out? Very confused. :veryconfu
 

Horizons78

Grade "A" Funny...
raven said:
Where was all this information when the rumors were around? Why are they just now coming out? Very confused. :veryconfu

Hate to say it - but they arent just now coming out. There have been several sites over the years that have had the majority of this info. The Horizons Tribute Group over at Yahoo has a ton of info - even a google search will yield pretty good results.

What is interesting, Griz and I were just talking about this earlier, is that every time I think Horizons has been talked out, some new flicker of interest develops. I think its a fitting tribute to just how great of a pavillion it was.
 

DarkMeasures

New Member
Mickeyrulz said:
Did I miss something? What's the Rocket Rods?

It was the Centerpiece of Disneyland's New Tommrowland of 1998. It used the Peoplemover track and used the circlevision building for a line. Essentially, it was trying to be like the fast portion of Test Track. Lack of Funding, though caused the ride to never reach its potential. Disney could not obtain a sponsor so the ride was left without banked track or reinforced supports. Due to this, there was high stress, and with the cars slowing down before each turn, more stress was caused. (I belive the top speed was 48mph).

Anyway, from all that the ride went to "Seasonal" before being closed for good. And it left something very bad. The People Mover track is no longer usable. The whole track would need to be rebuilt to be of any use.

I should note also, that essentially the same thing happened to Disneyland's Space Mountain. The Speakers added too much wait and ended up heavily stressing the track. That is the main reason why the whole ride was rebuilt.
 

Mickeyrulz

New Member
Original Poster
The People Mover track no longer useable? I am not a whiz at these things but there is NO WAY to fix it even with serious rehabs?
 

DarkMeasures

New Member
Mickeyrulz said:
The People Mover track no longer useable? I am not a whiz at these things but there is NO WAY to fix it even with serious rehabs?

Same reason Management was afraid to open Horizons. The Track would need to be rebuilt and that itself would be really hard to do due to the track layout. But that is at Disneyland. The Peoplemover at WDW still runs wonderfully and is one of my personal favorite Disney attractions.
 

imagineer99

New Member
I've been reading this thread, and I must admit, there is some really intriguing information regarding Horizons' demise. It is truly a classic attraction.

Horizons was my all time favorite attraction when I was younger. I would go on it over and over again. However, I think in our nostalgia for the past, we begin to forget about the problems inherent in a pavillion that depicts the future.

EPCOT's reliance on showcasing "modern" technology has always been a double edged sword. It's impossible to keep everything up to date, considering the world of technology is constantly changing. Of all the EPCOT pavillions, Horizons fell most victim to this. It's hard to impress upon guests a "future", if such an impression is already dated.

By the time we reached 1998, Horizons became difficult for me to ride. I loved it so much, yet I couldn't help but notice the reactions of other guests. They found it to be laughable in it's representation of a futuristic society.

Disney had to do something. I don't necessarily think they should have ditched the whole concept, but it is clear that Horizons couldn't have remained in it's current state (regardless of sinkholes and structural problems).

M:S solves a lot of headaches for Disney.

For one, it brings a younger demographic into the park.
Second, it's a ride concept that can be EASILY updated as the technology regarding space exploration expands.

M:S is far from perfect (it lacks warmth, for one) but it does serve its purpose (and it feels really darn cool as well;))

Personally, I would have loved to have seen M:S turned into an expansion of the Horizons ending. Each centrifuge could have been one of the endings (dessert, sea, and space). But that's a different story altogether...
 

tigger248

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
For those who havn`t seen it, here is a repeat of the Horizons Tragedy link http://surf.to/horizonstragedy

** WARNING - not very pretty **

Wow, those pictures are really sad. :(

I was there in september 2000 and I was very sad to see Horizons completely leveled (of course back then I wasn't nearly as obsessed as I am now so I had no idea it was even closed until we got there and the building was gone). However, I'm glad we didn't go a few months earlier, because I might have cried if I'd seen the building the way it looked in some of those pictures. Now the ride brings good memories of my eighth grade class trip when my friends and I rode it probably at least a dozen times. Who woulda thunk that it would be the last times I'd get to see that wonderful ride. Ahh memories. They're sketchy and I wish I could remember more.
 

lamarvenoy

New Member
For me the loss of Horizons was the death of old EPCOT. Along with WoM and the "original" Imagination,the whole concept of future world seems vague and undefined now. No real order or organization.
 

Horizons78

Grade "A" Funny...
lamarvenoy said:
For me the loss of Horizons was the death of old EPCOT. Along with WoM and the "original" Imagination,the whole concept of future world seems vague and undefined now. No real order or organization.
Agreed. Epcot for me is a ship with no course.
 

Mickeyrulz

New Member
Original Poster
DarkMeasures said:
Same reason Management was afraid to open Horizons. The Track would need to be rebuilt and that itself would be really hard to do due to the track layout. But that is at Disneyland. The Peoplemover at WDW still runs wonderfully and is one of my personal favorite Disney attractions.
I hope WDW never scraps their Peoplemover. It's really good, although the interior scenes could use some painting.

The WDW Peoplemover is my favorite (current ride) in Tomorrowland. However my fave in their use to be the Skyway
 

Mickeyrulz

New Member
Original Poster
lamarvenoy said:
For me the loss of Horizons was the death of old EPCOT. Along with WoM and the "original" Imagination,the whole concept of future world seems vague and undefined now. No real order or organization.
Very, very true!! Future World doesn't seem futuristic annymore. In Innoventions West the videogames aren't future related at all. They are games you can buy now, and have been able to buy for years. Imagination (the pavilion) doesn't strike me as Futuristic either. Nor does Test Track really. Mission: Space is a better fit in Magic Kingdom's Tomorrowland I think. After all, since when was Epcot related to Space? (Spaceship Earth, I know but still...)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom