EPCOT failed - Epcot is great!

Dr Albert Falls

New Member
Original Poster
Here we go again. Another Epcot pavillion is about to unveil a controversial make-over. Most people seem excited to see that "The Seas With Nemo and Friends". But there have also been some very vocal about the "dumbing down" of Epcot, and how the park is no longer "what it was supposed to be." We went through this all before during The Land rehab. And Mission Space. And Test Track. And so on.

Hence, this history lesson about EPCOT CENTER (1982-1995), and Epcot (1995-present)

*Walt did not dream up EPCOT CENTER. He only dreamed up the name. Oh yeah, and the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. The one that never got built (Celebration is not Walt's EPCOT).

*Who were the people who failed to deliver "Walt's Greatest Dream"? The same folks who designed EPCOT CENTER. They destroyed his vision, then built an un-related theme park, slapping Walt's "EPCOT" name on it to fool the public and the Florida legislature (who granted the company governmental powers for Walt's EPCOT) In essense, the people who designed EPCOT CENTER were budget-cutting, narrowminded con-artists. So before you put those people on a hero's pedestal and suggest EPCOT CENTER was something sacred, remember this park's origins.

*EPCOT CENTER was designed and built during one of the most creatively-challenged periods in Disney history. Their films during the late 70's were lackluster bombs. They didn't know how to effectively market the company's unique characters. And the corporation was on the verge of being taken over and ripped apart. Not exactly the stuff of legends.

*With all that said, most critics will agree, EPCOT CENTER was an overwelming achievement. When in opened. In 1982. I'm not good at math, but 1982 was a long long time ago.

*By its very name, half of EPCOT CENTER was devoted to the "Future World". The future that existed in 1982. Computers were not in every home yet. Few could dream of cellphones. Just one year earlier, America had launched the most-technologically advanced vehicle that was to make trips to space practically an everyday occurrance (in hindsight, we see how successful the Space Shuttle really was)

*Like Tomorrowland, the "Future World" built in 1982 was DESTINED to need updating every few years. Imagine if, on EPCOT Center's opening day on October 1 1982, there were NO audio-animatronics, there was an exhibit about launching the first satellite into space, and a pavillion dedicated to the crazy idea of color television. THAT is what EPCOT CENTER would look like had the park already been 25 years outdated when the gates first opened. Maybe now you can understand why a kid entering today's Epcot doesn't really want to see our generation's EPCOT CENTER.

*Probably like me, you have fond memories of growing up in the early 80's. And like me, you probably miss the old EPCOT CENTER attractions like Horizons and World of Motion. You probably miss the unique theme songs of those rides, too.

*Probably like me, you also miss TV shows like "Diffren't Strokes", "Facts of Life", "Cheers", and "Family Ties". And you probably miss the theme songs of those shows. Now turn on the TV and take a look. Popular shows like "CSI", "24", and "Survivor" look nothing like the shows we grew up with. And have you noticed that TV shows no longer have theme songs??? Face it, we're turning into old codgers who thought things were better "back in my day", just as our parents longed for the return of "Lassie" and the Andy Griffith whistle tune. But TV has changed with the times. Society has changed with the times. And theme parks need to change with the times (even if it means also losing those theme songs!)

*When EPCOT CENTER opened, Disney had only created 24 animated films (ending with "The Fox and the Hound"). That number has since doubled. And so have the wide array of characters. After building the Magic Kingdom, I'm sure Disney was hesitant to put Snow White, Pinnochio, or Robin Hood inside an EPCOT CENTER attraction. Plus they wanted EPCOT CENTER to be a non-Disney experience. Guess what? The parents bringing their kids expected to see the characters, and were disappointed when Mickey was not at EPCOT CENTER. And since that time, Disney (along with Pixar) has dreamed up lovable fish, bugs, African animals, talking cars, and superheroes who would make wonderful hosts for an educational, yet entertaining theme park attraction. I'm sure the guys who build EPCOT CENTER in the late 70's would have done anything to have a such a wide variety of characters at their fingertips, and especially ones the public has already voted on with their wallets!

*Yes, Disney screwed up the "Journey Into Imagination" rehab. People and corporations make mistakes. Get over it.

*When rumors started circulating that The Land was about to get a major overhaul, with "Food Rocks" torn out, a "California Adventure" clone attraction installed, and the "Living with the Land" boat ride turned into a cruise ship port, the internet community went NUTS!!!! Guess what. The cruise ship thing was an unfounded rumor. "Soarin'" has become one of the most popular (and longest lines) of any WDW attraction. And nobody talks about the rehab anymore (presumably because it ain't all that bad).

*With that said, I'm sure Nemo will fit in just fine. But my heart breaks for the kids of today's generation, who will undoubtedly flock to their new-fangled communication devices in 2031 to moan and groan about how Disney is ripping out the Nemo characters, in attempt to "dumb down" the attraction to make it fit the new 3D hologram undersea adventure video game that all the young kids are playing. "After all", they'll say, "to do that would ruin what Epcot is all about!"
 

Pongo

New Member
YES! THANK YOU!

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

This post is freaking AMAZING. Almost Sticky-worthy. Bravo. Thank you wor taking the time to explain everything to those who can't/won't/haven't really gotten it yet.
 

autumndawn1006

New Member
Wow! That was very well thought it and definetly some food for thought. I agree with your sentiments, but also would like to add something. Since it is a rehab, the Nemo ride shouldn't cost quite as much as installing a major new ride. Yet the interest it generates will be quite high making a good return on investment. Maybe this will inspire the imagineers to think of updating a few other pavilions and rides. *cough* (Wonders of Life) *cough*
 

raven

Well-Known Member
You have very good points. Things I didn't even think about and I agree.

Just be prepared to be flammed though because I'm sure there will be those who disagree.
 

IcicleM

New Member
Point? There doesn't have to be a point. It's the open-minded view and thought out explanation of us accepting the changes of EPCOT. This includes the other parks as well. Back in the day, Disney World just didn't have the technology to do what it can do, now. Now that it does, these new changes should be explored and thought about in new and different ways. Instead of us immedietely shutting the idea down, we should at least try to look at them and accept them for what they are. I think The Seas Pavillion has never looked better with the Nemo characters. They're comical, kids know who they are, they love them, and they'll grow up with them at home and at Disney. They will become a legend, I'm sure of it, and it's because of the kids, not us.

THINK OF THE CHILDREEEEEN! hahaha. But seriously, Disney and the Future, and dreams themselves are built on imagination. Who better to rule imagination than the children of tomorrow? Let's appeal to them and us, and look at these new ideas as something we'll look back on and say "Gosh... look at how far they've come, how much they've changed, and how much of the magic really is still there." Sometimes, you just gotta think out of the box.

I love this post, thank you so much Dr. Albert ^_^
 

will_rogers

New Member
nicely said, original poster. you make valid points. however, i have to make a counterpoint. Epcot isn't supposed to be another fairytale park with magical characters. It's supposed to be an infusion of real word cultures, technology, and situations presented in a way to engage our imagination. So i'm going to disagree in saying that if TWDC had the characters it does today back then that Epcot would be different.

YES. They are dumbing down Epcot, hell all of WDW for that matter but it is what it is, there is nothing we can do about it.

I think what people fail choose not to see is that a) an entertainment company has no business being ran by ONLY bean counters, like today. There should be some, but it needs a balance (i.e., Walt & Roy). b) TWDC shouldn't be a timeshare company (but that's another story...Contemporary DVC that you can see from MK...i shouldn't get started on rant

But once again, bravo to you good sir (or maam). very well stated and very valid points.

one more thing, if people start going off about World Showcase and it being boring and all that sort of stuff, remember it was never meant to be an adventure park. The beauty of WS is the fact that it encourages you to take your time, stroll, wonder around, and explore. It is to bring you to certain points in history and culture.

I'm finished...for now.
 

Dr Albert Falls

New Member
Original Poster
Will_Rogers ----

One of the points I should have made clearer is this idea that Epcot is "supposed to be" a certain way.

Who set the rules on what Epcot is "supposed to be"? Not Walt. The folks who built it in the 80's? Remember, they also nearly trashed the company. And, more importantly, they were literally stuck in the 80's.

And just because something was "supposed to be" a certain way when it was built doesn't mean it can't be altered decades later. The Disney Village Marketplace was "supposed to be" a quiet shopping mall. Then came Pleasure Island, and the place was "supposed to be" a restricted, adults-only nightspot. Now the area is changing once again to something that is "supposed to be" an open-access, family-friendly midway of modern shops and restaurants. At least until someone decides that area really is "supposed to be" something else.

My thought is that The Walt Disney Company... specifically the people who sit in the executive offices today... are the ones who can dictate what Epcot is "supposed" to be. It's their company. It's their land. And from the looks of the lines, people have no problem handing over a record amount of cash to buy a ticket to experience what they're offering.
 

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
With the outstanding "extreme makeovers" given to the Living Seas and the Land, I can't wait for the next one! My family thoroughly enjoyed both pavilions. They were engaging, entertaining, and enlightening. Hopefully, TWDC will do the Wonders of Life or Spaceship Earth next.
 

majortom1981

Active Member
hmm

The only thing I dont like about epcot is the world show case.

I think the world showcase was poorly done.

Needs more to do. Why cant every country have an informational ride like mexico?

I think the rest of epcot is good .

I just think the countries could have been done better.
 

diddy_mouse

Well-Known Member
I feel that Epcot has evolved from EPCOT CENTER. The whole park itself was somewhat of an experimental concept to begin with, right? You have two different park ideas (FW and WS) within the whole.

But as time moves on, some things must change.

Yes, pavillions can be succesfully updated to match the changing trends but they can also keep the same overall theme that the pavillion has. Living Seas is a great example. When I was there in '04 Nemo was starting to creep in, but I looked at is as a way to get kids, or anyone, educated about marine life

EPCOT CENTER was full of potential, and so is Epcot. I love the nostalgia and promise of the former, but I believe that the latter will continue to evolve but remain true to the ideas of EPCOT CENTER.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
So......Why did they paint The Living Seas baby blue then? Why did they take away the sun for no reason? It's those little stupid things they do to Epcot that make me mad. Like take away the old logo designs. You can't tell me that they couldn't design some new logos in the style of the old ones? Those are the real questions.
 

head mouse

Member
*Who were the people who failed to deliver "Walt's Greatest Dream"? The same folks who designed EPCOT CENTER. They destroyed his vision, then built an un-related theme park, slapping Walt's "EPCOT" name on it to fool the public and the Florida legislature (who granted the company governmental powers for Walt's EPCOT) In essense, the people who designed EPCOT CENTER were budget-cutting, narrowminded con-artists. So before you put those people on a hero's pedestal and suggest EPCOT CENTER was something sacred, remember this park's origins.

No one Destroyed Walt's vision for EPCOT.

The best explanation of the shift in excution comes from the official program for the Grand Opening and Dedication Ceremony of EPCOT Center in 1982.

The planner, designers, engineers, and operators of Walt Disney World are already providing nearly all the public services of a city, from communications and security to waste disposal. Implemented by the Reedy Creek Improvement District, the EPCOT Building Code, embodying Walt's philosophy for EPCOT, is firmly in place as the foundation for future development. What was lacking was a public focus for new ideas and concepts, a "center" for the communication of new possibilities for the future - directly to the public.

In this way, not only did the company publicly portray the entire Walt Disny World resort as EPCOT, but it also specifically added the exposition theme park to display the technological innovation at work in Walt Disney World.
 

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