EPCOT Entertainment cuts

[Matt_Black]

Yes, that is a perfectly valid opinion, and in my opinion, I should not. The problem comes up when people try to impose their opinion on others. You can say I should give you 80% of my income until the cows come home, and maybe from your perspective that makes sense, I don't know where you are coming from. You are entitled to have and to share that opinion as long as you like, but when you try to force me to accept and/or act on that opinion, then we have a problem.

And by not giving me anything, aren't you forcing your opinion on me? Shame on you! Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that people from Switzerland should be SHOT INTO SPACE, those neutral, clock-making freaks! Perfectly valid.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I feel bad for the new acts coming in. I feel like y'all are gonna go egg them during their very first show.

Nah Rotten tomatoes and other refuse. I am kidding, I wouldnt do that to anyone but I may not go to see them at all. Marie

 

[Fractal514]

And by not giving me anything, aren't you forcing your opinion on me? Shame on you! Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that people from Switzerland should be SHOT INTO SPACE, those neutral, clock-making freaks! Perfectly valid.

No, I am not. If I were to say, your opinion is wrong and you should not hold it, THAT would be forcing my opinion on to you. I'm simply disagreeing with your opinion and choosing not to act upon it. Having an opinion doesn't necessarily mean that someone else has to do anything about it in order for it to be valid.

You are also entitled to your opinion of the Swiss, I happen to disagree with that as well.

Edit: Also, you're employing a logical fallacy here as well. The context of this discussion is web forums, specifically THIS web forum and the topic is clearly about people's opinions of WDW and its offerings. You are taking the argument to an out of context and ridiculous extreme to try and make your point. It is of my opinion that you know that and are either trying to be funny or just being difficult. Either way, I like debating so long as it stays civil.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That is not how America bidness works.

That doesnt make it right.

Frankly, everyone who is saying "Its Just Business" needs to go to work tomorrow, because there's no excuse why you can't.

 

[unkadug]

Its just the final straw. I have a lengthy explanation that explains where I'm coming from on this a few pages back.

That and I hate seeing friends lose their jobs and get replaced by the entertainment equivalent of an intern.

Perhaps you need friends with stable jobs.

This is the nature of employment in the entertainment field. There is no job security when you choose that lifestyle.

They knew this going in and yet you choose to get up in arms about something they knew was eventually coming.

 

[DisUniversal]

Perhaps you need friends with stable jobs.

Pretty ignorant and inconsiderate statement to make.

This is the nature of employment in the entertainment field. There is no job security when you choose that lifestyle.

This is the nature of employment period lately. The moment a company doesn't need someone or can find someone to do their job for less money, there's a good chance they'll be shown the door.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Perhaps you need friends with stable jobs.

This is the nature of employment in the entertainment field. There is no job security when you choose that lifestyle.

They knew this going in and yet you choose to get up in arms about something they knew was eventually coming.

Wow. So much ignorance. So much judgement.

No one should have their employer after 17 years of service arbitrarily terminate them on a whim because they're suddenly too expensive to employ despite the employer making record profit and having a stock price over $90.

You are going to work tomorrow, right?

 

[docandsix]

I think this sentence perfectly illustrates the anger that some folks are talking about. Your final statement about addicts paying for drugs... are you stating that those who don't feel the same as you are saps and addicts? If you are, then I think that is rather unfair to folks who legitimately enjoy going and who aren't just doing that out of some addiction to nostalgia. When you do that, it makes it really easy for folks who share your perspective to dismiss those of us who don't, and equally easy for us to dismiss you. I'd much rather have a substantive discussion.

Edit: On second read, it seems that I myself might be reading more into your post than you intended, if so, I apologize.

I take no offense to your inference, though my post was not aimed at Disney fans anyway, but rather at Disney management in general and TDO specifically. I feel like they are playing all of us for fools, taking our money and coming up with new ways to get into our wallets without acknowledging our loyalty and returning the favor with attractions and experiences like those that established their fan base in the first place.

Some people have never been to WDW before, and the income stream of new visitors will probably nourish the golden goose no matter how hard TDO tries to kill it. But when we see little things like this and the Lights of Winter go away under the pretense of cost savings, while loyal fans are getting charged extra to see felt heads that used to appear in the parks for free (and still should, in my opinion) or to have the privilege to stay in the parks after 7:00 p.m. or to spend even more on exclusive, limited merchandise, that feels like exploitation to me. I'm done partaking of it. I certainly don't begrudge to it anyone who still enjoys it, isn't offended by the practice and can afford it, but I do feel that further participation is feeding the beast to some extent, and I am inclined to believe that TDO will only continue the pattern until our refusal to go along any longer hurts their profit margin. Therefore, I'm sending my message to TDO in the only language they seem to understand--money--by keeping mine in my pocket instead of giving more of it to them.

No offense intended to anyone who still loves the product (I'll miss a lot of it) and is willing to shell out the cash necessary, however. I do wish that I could afford and justify joining you!

 

[cw1982]

This is the nature of employment period lately. The moment a company doesn't need someone or can find someone to do their job for less money, there's a good chance they'll be shown the door.

This is so true! Even education, which many once thought to be one of the most secure career choices, has seen budget cuts so severe that teachers who have more experience sometimes lose out on interview selections over people fresh out of college, since districts pay less in supplements to those with lower state salaries.

I had been teaching in the same school for 7 years when I lost my job out of nowhere due to budget cuts a year and a half ago. Is anyone going to tell me this was my fault for not having a more stable job?

 

[Fractal514]

I take no offense to your inference, though my post was not aimed at Disney fans anyway, but rather at Disney management in general and TDO specifically. I feel like they are playing all of us for fools, taking our money and coming up with new ways to get into our wallets without acknowledging our loyalty and returning the favor with attractions and experiences like those that established their fan base in the first place.

Some people have never been to WDW before, and the income stream of new visitors will probably nourish the golden goose no matter how hard TDO tries to kill it. But when we see little things like this and the Lights of Winter ago away under the pretense of cost savings, while loyal fans are getting charged extra to see felt heads that used to appear in the parks for free (and still should, in my opinion) or to have the privilege to stay in the parks after 7:00 p.m. or to spend even more on exclusive, limited merchandise, that feels like exploitation to me. I'm done partaking of it. I certainly don't begrudge to it anyone who still enjoys it, isn't offended by the practice and can afford it, but I do feel that further participation is feeding the beast to some extent, and I am inclined to believe that TDO will only continue the pattern until our refusal to go along any longer hurts their profit margin. Therefore, I'm sending my message to TDO in the only language they seem to understand--money--by keeping mine in my pocket instead of giving more of it to them.

No offense intended to anyone who still loves the product (I'll miss a lot of it) and is willing to shell out the cash necessary, however. I do wish that I could afford and justify joining you!

Another thing to consider is that not everyone is at the same place in life and thus might be affected differently by these things. Were my wife and I still in our 20's and without children, we might choose to take our vacation money elsewhere, but we aren't and we have two young children, children who absolutely adore the mouse and elsa and pretty much the entire Disney brand. If we were to go elsewhere because we don't like the cuts or are upset because of the changes in Future World, we'd not only be denying our children the chance to see the parks through innocent eyes at an age where it IS still magic, but we'd also be denying ourselves the chance to see our children experiencing the park in this way. So while I do agree that these cuts are unfortunate and that I wish they'd reinvest more in the parks, I just am not at the point of being willing to walk away, because for our money there still is nothing like Disney. Perhaps it is because of that resignation that I take the view of hoping for the best and trying to stay positive, none of my family members frequent these boards and they are all PSYCHED about our trip coming up in November. I sometimes wonder if being on these boards and being more informed is like knowing how a magician does his trick, yes you feel smarter than everyone else, but you also don't get to experience the magic.

 

[unkadug]

Pretty ignorant and inconsiderate statement to make.


This is the nature of employment period lately. The moment a company doesn't need someone or can find someone to do their job for less money, there's a good chance they'll be shown the door.

Wow. So much ignorance. So much judgement.

No one should have their employer after 17 years of service arbitrarily terminate them on a whim because they're suddenly too expensive to employ despite the employer making record profit and having a stock price over $90.

You are going to work tomorrow, right?

You are both missing the point.

The entertainers had a great run and they know it. There is no stable job in the entertainment business and they somehow managed to keep a job they love for 17 years.

They had a great run...it's time for them to do what all other entertainers do and go get another gig.

Why you all are upset about it is beyond me.

And finally...

I do not have to work tomorrow...what does that have to do with anything? Mind your own business.

 

[Fractal514]

You are going to work tomorrow, right?

What are you trying to imply with this line. I've seen you ask it twice now. Are you suggesting that folks should be thankful for their jobs or that somehow having the right to a day off is something that we should cherish? I should point out that MANY folks do NOT have off tomorrow, particularly anyone who works in the service industry. A little clarity here would be helpful.

 

[PhotoDave219]

You are both missing the point.

The entertainers had a great run and they know it. There is no stable job in the entertainment business and they somehow managed to keep a job they love for 17 years.

They had a great run...it's time for them to do what all other entertainers do and go get another gig.

Why you all are upset about it is beyond me.

And finally...

I do not have to work tomorrow...what does that have to do with anything? Mind your own business.

Tomorrow is Labor Day. Celebration of workers rights in America.

 

[PhotoDave219]

You are both missing the point.

The entertainers had a great run and they know it. There is no stable job in the entertainment business and they somehow managed to keep a job they love for 17 years.

They had a great run...it's time for them to do what all other entertainers do and go get another gig.

Why you all are upset about it is beyond me.

And finally...

I do not have to work tomorrow...what does that have to do with anything? Mind your own business.

Also if you're trying to keep a respectful discussion, you probably shouldn't start with "you need new friends" or something similar.

Because that tends to inflame the situation, ya know?

 

[DisUniversal]

You are both missing the point.

Someone is missing the point here and it's not us...and in this case 'us' means anyone not you.

 

[wdisney9000]

Everybody throws around the fact that the we here are the small minority and our opinions dont have much effect. When the hard core fan base complains long enough and points out more and more flaws, there will eventually be a tipping point where the general public hears them and begins to notice and when the "yoga fueled soccer moms" (as dave calls em) begin to chat on FB about it, the word can spread quickly and the ugly underbelly will be more exposed. The moms on FB wont be discussing it because they love Disney, they will be discussing it because they love to gossip and love to be the first to tell everybody about it. Ya, it could take years before it reaches that point, but if it does, and then some news outlet does a story on how Disney has declined and cheapened the experience, it will take a lot for the company to recover.

For every fan they loose they will probly gain a new one, but look at the customer they are going after now. People that will most likely not buy an AP or not return for years to come. People that dont care about finding that unique merchandise or spending money on keepsakes. At least not as much as the fans they are loosing. Disney could end up with a fan base that is not as loyal and they will be forced to continue to find new fans.

 

[Fractal514]

Everybody throws around the fact that the we here are the small minority and our opinions dont have much effect. When the hard core fan base complains long enough and points out more and more flaws, there will eventually be a tipping point where the general public hears them and begins to notice and when the "yoga fueled soccer moms" (as dave calls em) begin to chat on FB about it, the word can spread quickly and the ugly underbelly will be more exposed. The moms on FB wont be discussing it because they love Disney, they will be discussing it because they love to gossip and love to be the first to tell everybody about it. Ya, it could take years before it reaches that point, but if it does, and then some news outlet does a story on how Disney has declined and cheapened the experience, it will take a lot for the company to recover.

For every fan they loose they will probly gain a new one, but look at the customer they are going after now. People that will most likely not buy an AP or not return for years to come. People that dont care about finding that unique merchandise or spending money on keepsakes. At least not as much as the fans they are loosing. Disney could end up with a fan base that is not as loyal and they will be forced to continue to find new fans.

Do you know any wrestling fans? Or comic book fans? Or any fans who are at that level? They all tend to be communities filled with harsh critics and staunch supporters, both motivated by a deep-rooted love of the thing they are fans of. I think it is true that every fan-base complains and that every fan-base has apologists. The question is, do ANY of the companies listen to the hard-core fan-base, or do they listen to the general public who is their target.

The question I would pose to the folks who think that Disney's quality is abysmal and will start to cost them, is do you think there will be someone to fill that void in the market. Do you think that someone could provide the type of experience that Disney "used to" and thus become successful and beloved in the same way and by the same clientele who are now disenfranchised? Is Universal doing this, and if so, why are so many folks still here hoping for WDW to change when another offering is doing it? Lots of stuff to ponder, not saying I have answers, just questions.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Everybody throws around the fact that the we here are the small minority and our opinions dont have much effect. When the hard core fan base complains long enough and points out more and more flaws, there will eventually be a tipping point where the general public hears them and begins to notice and when the "yoga fueled soccer moms" (as dave calls em) begin to chat on FB about it, the word can spread quickly and the ugly underbelly will be more exposed. The moms on FB wont be discussing it because they love Disney, they will be discussing it because they love to gossip and love to be the first to tell everybody about it. Ya, it could take years before it reaches that point, but if it does, and then some news outlet does a story on how Disney has declined and cheapened the experience, it will take a lot for the company to recover.

For every fan they loose they will probly gain a new one, but look at the customer they are going after now. People that will most likely not buy an AP or not return for years to come. People that dont care about finding that unique merchandise or spending money on keepsakes. At least not as much as the fans they are loosing. Disney could end up with a fan base that is not as loyal and they will be forced to continue to find new fans.

I love me a yoga fueled soccer mom.....

It never will reach that tipping point. This will just become another moment where the Epcot fanbois point to and say "remember when we had cool entertainment" and argue on message boards while those who remained silent think back and wonder why they did.

I see this as a new trend. I see them changing acts in and out much faster, not allowing any one act to build that kind of following (and keeping things cheap).

My absolute biggest problem with this? Fife and drum were cut. How ironic, Cutting the most patriotic show in the four parks all in the name of business.

 

[Texas84]

Wow. So much ignorance. So much judgement.

No one should have their employer after 17 years of service arbitrarily terminate them on a whim because they're suddenly too expensive to employ despite the employer making record profit and having a stock price over $90.

You are going to work tomorrow, right?

I was told I can't work tomorrow. Holiday pay for me is double time.

Yeah, those days of staying with a company until retirement are long gone. We're even unloading military before they can retire.

 

[unkadug]

Someone is missing the point here and it's not us...and in this case 'us' means anyone not you.

Glad to know that you read the rest of the post.