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EPCOT Entertainment cuts
- Thread starter wannabeBelle
- Start date
Didn't realize you were @71jason. More self-identification?
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
No, just stepping in. Trying to add insight from a locals perspective. Jason and I are vastly different person, but similar opinions on this. We're both pretty ed off.
Foaming mad, you might say.
But keep the anger directed at Disney (or TDO, or Meg, or Iger, or wherever) and not at those on the discussion boards who have different views, or in my case, similar views, but without the anger.
SirLink
Well-Known Member
The problem is not all opinions are correct ... some are based on incorrect or impartial facts that taint the minds and leads the way for more misdirected opinions that are in fact wrong. This is an instance where I and a few others can blame TDO/Burbank/BoD/Disney fan community all to blame at this point for a lot of issues with the management of this company.
culturenthrills
Well-Known Member
That is not how America bidness works.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Right to Termina... Er... Work!
vinnya1726
Active Member
But that is not Iger's world.
It is always easy to blame Iger and even Staggs for everything that we don't get or everything that is cut that we don't like, but they do report to a board, that has much more power than it has in the pat. When Eisner did the things he did many years ago, the board was not as powerful. We do have to remember they are a business and while it does not make sense to us, they do have people to answer to. As a school administrator, I am forced to cut things for students so that I can pay large increases in Benefit costs, not something I want to do, but it is part of our world. I am sure dealing with the Equity union cannot be easy. So before we hang Iger from the tree of life or from Cinderellas Castle keep in mind he may be the chairmen, but even he has to answer to someone.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
If his power is so limited that he's not responsible for failures, then what could justify the money they're paying him? And is he that bashful about taking credit for successes?
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
No, all opinions are valid, it's just that not everything that people claim are opinions are opinions. I think we should wait to see if the new acts are any good is an opinion. I never cared for Off-Kilter in the first place is an opinion. Opinion's, by definition, cannot be wrong because they reflect one person's perspective, not a universal truth. "Off-Kilter is the most iconic group in Epcot" is not an opinion, it is an assertion of an opinion as fact, therefore it could be wrong. "I think Off-Kilter is the most iconic group in Epcot" is an opinion presented as such and thus could not be wrong in and of itself.
Dwarful
Well-Known Member
Well, with all of the cuts at Epcot it appears the only reason to visit WS will be for food/drinks/shopping.
We have been long time fans of Off Kilter and ALWAYS enjoy the Fife and Drum show. I will wait to pass judgment until we go in Feb. and see what new entertainment has been put in place. If it isn't that entertaining we will skip it.
But for us, this would then make Epcot a half day park. The shops have been selling the same stuff for years without much change...so no need for shopping, aside from a few things we always pick up (my daughter always buys a painted animal carving in Mexico and my other daughter always does the pick a pearl in Japan). We aren't big drinkers so 'drinking around the world' isn't a draw for us to come into the park or stay in the park. We come for entertainment and attractions. WS is lacking in attractions and all of the cuts lately lead me to believe WS will be lacking in entertainment as well....but only time will tell...so I will hold off my anger and outrage until Feb.
But I cannot hold back my sadness and disappointment in losing OK and F&DC.
We have been long time fans of Off Kilter and ALWAYS enjoy the Fife and Drum show. I will wait to pass judgment until we go in Feb. and see what new entertainment has been put in place. If it isn't that entertaining we will skip it.
But for us, this would then make Epcot a half day park. The shops have been selling the same stuff for years without much change...so no need for shopping, aside from a few things we always pick up (my daughter always buys a painted animal carving in Mexico and my other daughter always does the pick a pearl in Japan). We aren't big drinkers so 'drinking around the world' isn't a draw for us to come into the park or stay in the park. We come for entertainment and attractions. WS is lacking in attractions and all of the cuts lately lead me to believe WS will be lacking in entertainment as well....but only time will tell...so I will hold off my anger and outrage until Feb.
But I cannot hold back my sadness and disappointment in losing OK and F&DC.
Actually, you can blame those people anytime you want. But as you note, not all opinions (even about who is to blame) are valid. Also, even if you blame people on this board for the loss of these acts, it needn't lead to anger. And anger needn't lead to insulting and belligerent posting (which I haven't necessarily noticed from you, but you do seem to be defending it), particularly from people who you blame just because they don't care, didn't like the acts, think the new ones sound interesting, couldn't care less whether Disney hires third-party or in-house, or aren't troubled by the cost-cutting motivation.
While this is true in the abstract, ain't nobody on the Board of Directors who cares about the Epcot entertainment budget. The Board may well have demanded lower spending, although I doubt it. But even if they did, it was management that decided where the lower spending would come from. If this is a budget cut (and I certainly believe it is), the amount of money they are saving could have come from a slight reduction in Iger's bonus, for example, or a cut in the bonuses of all management at TDO of maybe .02%, or canceling a small road-repaving project, or hiring a few less extras for a crowd scene in Star Wars VII, or...anything. It was management that decided this should be the cut.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
In that case, in my opinion, you should give 80% of all of your income to me. Perfectly valid!
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is a perfectly valid opinion, and in my opinion, I should not. The problem comes up when people try to impose their opinion on others. You can say I should give you 80% of my income until the cows come home, and maybe from your perspective that makes sense, I don't know where you are coming from. You are entitled to have and to share that opinion as long as you like, but when you try to force me to accept and/or act on that opinion, then we have a problem.
docandsix
Active Member
WDW74 told us all what led to this change. TDO is cheap and getting cheaper. Cost overruns of NGE are slowly stripping the parks of unique and beloved entertainment in addition to standing in the way of much-needed refurbishments and blue sky development. Lawyers and our culture of litigation add to the equation by dumbing down the universe with the empty promise of utopian safety under all circumstances against every eventuality. And we're all foolish enough to keep throwing good money after bad at TDO because of memories and specious hope for future improvement.
We are done with WDW until further notice. We'll be at least five years before returning. Perhaps TDO will create something worth seeing in the meantime. If Future World and Imagination remain unchanged by then (likely--oops, they'll add another theater to Soarin'), if World of Life remains closed, if World Showcase is b******ized with additional character overlays and no new pavilions are built, if Avatarland opens with one attraction as promised, we won't be back at all.
I realize that WDW has been a business since it first opened and that profits drive business, but what's happening now feels more like exploitation of saps than an exchange of money for services. Addicts will pay for their drugs even as the quality diminishes. I'm quitting cold turkey.
We are done with WDW until further notice. We'll be at least five years before returning. Perhaps TDO will create something worth seeing in the meantime. If Future World and Imagination remain unchanged by then (likely--oops, they'll add another theater to Soarin'), if World of Life remains closed, if World Showcase is b******ized with additional character overlays and no new pavilions are built, if Avatarland opens with one attraction as promised, we won't be back at all.
I realize that WDW has been a business since it first opened and that profits drive business, but what's happening now feels more like exploitation of saps than an exchange of money for services. Addicts will pay for their drugs even as the quality diminishes. I'm quitting cold turkey.
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
I think this sentence perfectly illustrates the anger that some folks are talking about. Your final statement about addicts paying for drugs... are you stating that those who don't feel the same as you are saps and addicts? If you are, then I think that is rather unfair to folks who legitimately enjoy going and who aren't just doing that out of some addiction to nostalgia. When you do that, it makes it really easy for folks who share your perspective to dismiss those of us who don't, and equally easy for us to dismiss you. I'd much rather have a substantive discussion.
Edit: On second read, it seems that I myself might be reading more into your post than you intended, if so, I apologize.
SirLink
Well-Known Member
No not all opinions are valid. The only people who believe every opinion to be of equal merit are those that don't want to come to a realisation of facts. TDO is cutting budgets of entertainment across Disney property and replacing said acts with no entertainment or replacing it with non-equity. I.e. lowering the quality.
So when a family congratulates Disney on: "freshening up the entertainment". Let me be the first to ask why weren't you telling Disney that with regards to a replacement of TLM or BATB shows. I now know the dumbing down/walmarting/etc of WDW was acted on by TDO but it was the hicks from the sticks that wear those brightly coloured T-shirts with your name and relationship on ... your 100% to blame for this mess we are in ... and quite frankly I'm not going to take it anymore.
Fractal514
Well-Known Member
Ok, so, if I don't like Off-Kilter and think that the new acts sound interesting, that opinion is wrong?
Secondly, I don't talk to Disney directly, I don't have that power, outside of my money and my time. To that end, I have told them to replace TLM and BATB shows by not attending them and spending less time in HS as a result.
Finally, I'm not a fan of some of the clientele who come to WDW and I do wish that there was better behavior and more enlightenment on behalf of the guests. I lament the loss of Horizons and the original Living Seas because I think they were far superior experiences, and I believe that it is because the average Disney guest didn't appreciate them that they went away. BUT, to A. start name calling and dismissing people you don't even know and B. assume you know anything about me or any other poster on this board and to lump us into that group you've just disparaged is just silly and mean.
You say you aren't going to take it anymore, what does that mean? You're going to forcibly change everyone's opinion by being aggressive on a message board about which Disney doesn't care and on which your opinion is easily dismissed? Are you going to stop going to Disney altogether and boycott their products? Are you going to start a blog outlining in well-reasoned (or perhaps just angrily shouted) posts how Disney is "walmarting" itself? Being mad as hell and not wanting to take it anymore is nice, but that doesn't get anything done. What are you going to DO, besides yelling and and attacking folks to whom you feel superior.