EPCOT Entertainment cuts

[Tigger1988]

If you count all the technicians, costuming, cosmotology, operations, the numbers affected by show cuts are much higher than 100. At the American Idol cast event yesterday, there were at least 100 people there, and most of them were people you never see on stage.

And some are cheering because the show is closing. I guess it only matters if they enjoy the show/act in question.

 

[marni1971]

So, regardless of how much talent they might have, we should automatically hate the new acts?

No. I actually feel a bit sorry for them, given the reputation they need to fill.

We should hate those who decreed budget cuts were needed.

 

[wannabeBelle]

A group was staarted on FB to save Off Kilter, In one day they got 843 members. Take a look here if you want to join in. https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/364817680340041/ They are encouraging letter writing campaigns and contacting Guest Relations etc. Marie

 

[Hakunamatata]

If it was all about the budget, why not get rid of live entertainment and put up video screens showing Frozen on a continuous loop in the language of the country you are viewing it in?

 

[Killnme]

Picketing and rigged elections?

Wonder what would happen if they brought LOOTING in to the American Pavilion?

 

[71jason]

The Eiffel Tower. The American Adventure building. The pyramid in Mexico. I could go on.

As for entertainment, though, nothing as iconic other than Voices of Liberty, the Taiko drummers, Illuminations, the Chinese acrobats, the train garden, Mariachi Cobre, Musikanten...

Lots of Epcot icons, really. Off-Kilter is one of my favorites, but there are plenty.

Clearly I was talking attractions. And I'll concede VoL, I'd be equally if not more upset if they were cut. But in terms of crowds and threads on Disney sites ... you really thing Taiko drummers, Chinese acrobats and the train garden are on a par with Off Kilter?

No need for me to continue, I think foamer logic speaks for itself.

 

[71jason]

There are a multitude of reasons why they may be making these changes, Not the least of which could be to cut on salary & benefits if these performers fall under employees verses contractors. Disney ~loves~ hiring contractors these days for the simple reason that they are less expensive if you know the set hours they are to work and will not be putting in extra to get the job done.

Confirmed last night new acts are third-party (like the DTD performers). This was purely a cost-cutting move.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Jason I dont "like" your post but that is some great information, thank you!!!!! Marie

 

[lazyboy97o]

Confirmed last night new acts are third-party (like the DTD performers). This was purely a cost-cutting move.

Isn't Off Kilter a third party? They've been playing at World Showcase from the start but it seems they formed themselves and then went to Disney. And I don't see how that is necessarily cheaper except that contractors might be able to negotiate seperate terms from the union negotiated ones. It can also be a benefit for performers if they ensure continued ownership of the material. No gig in show business is expected to last forever, but not having to start from scratch sure can be helpful. Billy Hill and the Hillbillies were dropped from Disneyland and almost immediately showed up at Knott's Berry Farm. An established act can move to other places.

 

[216bruce]

Isn't Off Kilter a third party? They've been playing at World Showcase from the start but it seems they formed themselves and then went to Disney. And I don't see how that is necessarily cheaper except that contractors might be able to negotiate seperate terms from the union negotiated ones. It can also be a benefit for performers if they ensure continued ownership of the material. No gig in show business is expected to last forever, but not having to start from scratch sure can be helpful. Billy Hill and the Hillbillies were dropped from Disneyland and almost immediately showed up at Knott's Berry Farm. An established act can move to other places.

Swap out the kilts for Hogwarts student robes and ta-dah "Harry Potter ROCKS!". Are you listening Uni?

 

[Fractal514]

I don't think you get it. @PhotoDave219 is still waiting for your budgetary support, supporting the idea that TDO isn't cutting their entertainment budget, but I'll help you out here.

TWDC's fiscal year ends at the end of this September. In fact, I think that day is actually Sept 27, 2014....by the way, do you know when Off Kilter's last performance is scheduled?

If TDO wanted to make a switch for equally valued entertainment -- they could have done that *any* time throughout the year. If you're assertion stands, then the price they are paying for Off Kilter, Mo Rockin', Fife/Drum and potentially, British Rev would be no different than the proposed Cosa Nostra Flag party and Bob & Doug McKenzie's lumberjack revue. I, and everyone else here who have thought this through, find that very hard to believe.

The fact that they are doing it at year end suggests that they are:

a) expecting to pay a different, likely lower, price for the entertainment in FY2015.
b) expecting to report out the proposed and intended cuts in the P&R budget for FY2015.

It's that simple. Make this change at any other part of the year and it's still suspicious of a budget cut. However, make on on the very day the fiscal year closes and there is no question of the motives here.

If you read the recent quarterly reports and review the transcripts of the conference calls over the past year, you will know that Iger has had to explain, in writing and verbally, the driver behind P&R's higher costs ("
higher costs for the continued roll out of MyMagic+").

I can't get inside Iger's head -- but I suspect he really wants to stop talking about it. Since MyMagic+ costs are *not* going down in our lifetimes -- the only myopic alternative he and Staggs sees, is to cut expenses elsewhere in P&R.

Sorry -- this is *not* an equal change. It's a dramatic cut. One done with the express purpose of driving down costs throughout the park so that MyMagic+ can no longer be a talking point amongst stock holders.

I do not profess to have any inside information other than the fact that I once directed an actress who is now one of the performers in the Aladdin show in DCA, so this asking me to show documents argument really is silly. As for your logic regarding the timing of things, I think that one could also argue that the timing would be needed if a budget INCREASE were to be put in place, and thus they needed to wait until the end of the fiscal year before making such a change. I know this isn't likely given the current climate, but I think that it is possible, as your yourself point out. Furthermore, do we know if these performers are contracted to the fiscal year, I know that many businesses with year over year contracts do this and perhaps that is why the timing lines up the way it does. Again, I'm not an insider and I don't know, but I can't just jump to conclusions like others seem able to do.

Also, there are a lot of logical errors and hyperbolic arguments being made in this thread. You say that everyone else here who has "thought this through" find it hard to believe that the cost will remain equal from the old entertainment to the next. There are two errors in that statement. First, such a statement implies that anyone who disagrees with you arrived at their conclusion because they did not "think it through" rather than the possibility that they simply disagree with your interpretations. Secondly, I've never stated that the budget would stay the same, simply that this may NOT be motivated by cuts, or at least not solely motivated by cuts.

I guess I'm just trying to reserved judgement on these acts and whether or not this will be a good thing for me and my family when we go down to visit in November. I fully acknowledge that this will be bad for the families of the performers canned, and good for those brought in, but that's not really my focus in this thread. I just don't understand where some of what I perceive to be anger, in this thread and at me and others who aren't openly furious at the decision, is coming from.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I am not sure about the relationship between OK and Disney. I always thought they were individual employees but had been formed outside of Disney and therefore could use the name "Off Kilter" at Irish Festivals etc that I had seen them at. There are two other acts that i know of that are playing currently, who CANNOT use theiir band's name outside of the park. Not sure how their contracts differ as we never discussed that. Marie

 

[Fractal514]

I am not sure about the relationship between OK and Disney. I always thought they were individual employees but had been formed outside of Disney and therefore could use the name "Off Kilter" at Irish Festivals etc that I had seen them at. There are two other acts that i know of that are playing currently, who CANNOT use theiir band's name outside of the park. Not sure how their contracts differ as we never discussed that. Marie

Since a big part of this thread has been anger about Disney switching to third-party performers, I think this is something that would be important to find out. If Off-Kilter is indeed a third-party then there is no reason for fans of theirs to assume that other third-party acts would be any less talented or popular.

 

[wdwgreek]

I do not profess to have any inside information other than the fact that I once directed an actress who is now one of the performers in the Aladdin show in DCA, so this asking me to show documents argument really is silly. As for your logic regarding the timing of things, I think that one could also argue that the timing would be needed if a budget INCREASE were to be put in place, and thus they needed to wait until the end of the fiscal year before making such a change. I know this isn't likely given the current climate, but I think that it is possible, as your yourself point out. Furthermore, do we know if these performers are contracted to the fiscal year, I know that many businesses with year over year contracts do this and perhaps that is why the timing lines up the way it does. Again, I'm not an insider and I don't know, but I can't just jump to conclusions like others seem able to do.

Also, there are a lot of logical errors and hyperbolic arguments being made in this thread. You say that everyone else here who has "thought this through" find it hard to believe that the cost will remain equal from the old entertainment to the next. There are two errors in that statement. First, such a statement implies that anyone who disagrees with you arrived at their conclusion because they did not "think it through" rather than the possibility that they simply disagree with your interpretations. Secondly, I've never stated that the budget would stay the same, simply that this may NOT be motivated by cuts, or at least not solely motivated by cuts.

I guess I'm just trying to reserved judgement on these acts and whether or not this will be a good thing for me and my family when we go down to visit in November. I fully acknowledge that this will be bad for the families of the performers canned, and good for those brought in, but that's not really my focus in this thread. I just don't understand where some of what I perceive to be anger, in this thread and at me and others who aren't openly furious at the decision, is coming from.[/QUOTE
very Well thought through!

 

[wannabeBelle]

Actually no the switch to third party performers doesnt bother me. I loved seeing Off Kilter perform. The costs involved seem to be the motivating factor for the cut from what I can gather. Having about 10 people I am friendly with put out of work on a whim and strictly as a cost cutting measure is hurtful to me. As far as judging the newcomers prematurely, I cant think that a Thrilling Lumberjack inspired show is going to do it for me. Last year I went to see the Canadian Voyageurs and the girl they had fronting the band was AWFUL!!!! I was sitting up front and couldnt for the life of me tell if she was singing in French or English!!!! Very plastic and fake kind of thing going on there, so different from the warmth, humor and audience interaction I am used to with the regular OK guys. I tried to keep an open mind, I really did but it just didnt work for me at all. I did write to Disney to express my displeasure in that change. As far as finding out any contract details, I dont know if that should matter to me. I want to see OK back and performing. The details are a private matter between the group and Disney and I wouldnt even ask, although the guys probably would tell me. I dont think the new act will do it for me personally but will probably see them on a future trip. Why they couldnt be brought in along with the existing acts to see what they can do is a puzzle to me. I have seen a video of the act they plan on replacing MoRockin' with, and it is just downright terrifying. I know I wont be getting over to that side of the lagoon for their performances, that is for sure!!! In short, I am not looking to go through anyone's business, I simply want a band I know and love to be performing at EPCOT and that cost ( within reason for the type of work they do) should NOT have been a factor. Marie

 

[I_heart_Tigger]

Isn't Off Kilter a third party? They've been playing at World Showcase from the start but it seems they formed themselves and then went to Disney.

No, Jamie and Randy were both already employed by Disney before Off Kilter started. Jamie and Mark are the "brainchild" behind off Kilter. Jamie and another guy used to walk the pavilion playing (bagpipes and drum) and it was felt that something bigger was needed for entertainment so Jamie and Mark came up with the concept, recruited Randy who was already a Disney employee and some other musicians (who have changed a bit over the years)

EDIT: to add that I believe they can use the name outside Disney because they came up with the concept and presented it to Disney as the alternative to the wandering lone bagpiper and bagpiper drum combo. Disney was well aware that Jamie was coming up with something to offer as a replacement but the band had to audition to be accepted. Having to audition and not being formed by Disney themselves allows the band to use the name elsewhere.

 

[71jason]

Isn't Off Kilter a third party? They've been playing at World Showcase from the start but it seems they formed themselves and then went to Disney.

As far as I know, they are full Equity CMs. Jamie and Randy were before the band formed, can't speak to the rest.

And I don't see how that is necessarily cheaper except that contractors might be able to negotiate seperate terms from the union negotiated ones.

Exactly. They aren't being paid Equity rates, or a receiving a WDW benefits package. I imagine they are easier to "handle" as well--e.g. no grievance procedure, no seniority rules.

As other posters have suggested, it's what most other American corporations are doing as well (I work for an international publishing house that is largely staffed by temps at this point). It's just some of us expect better from an entertainment company that used to put show above all else.

ETA: Apologies @I_heart_Tigger didn't see your post

 

[Hakunamatata]

Offkilter.net shows that the band performs off site at various events and venues. Based on that, I would suspect that the rights to Off Kilter are not owned by Disney.

 

[DisUniversal]

It's just some of us expect better from an entertainment company that used to put show above all else.

At what point do we stop expecting better? Seems like it's been quite a while now since we've seen 'better'.

 

[DisUniversal]

Offkilter.net shows that the band performs off site at various events and venues. Based on that, I would suspect that the rights to Off Kilter are not owned by Disney.

Last gig they have posted there is 4 years ago? I hope they're just lazy with their website and the demand for them is a little better than that!