Epcot & DHS rumors from Screamscape

[Texas84]

There's nothing thrilling about a boat. And they're slow. They will have to study what Uni is doing and then do something that's uniquely Disney.

Agree, but it's something they could do tomorrow.

Had this thought last weekend when I was at Epcot. Light rail around World Showcase, somehow enclosed to hide any backstage, with mini-subway stations that match the countries they belong to. Not a complete loop, a back and forth between Mexico and Canada.

 

[PeterAlt]

Agree, but it's something they could do tomorrow.

Had this thought last weekend when I was at Epcot. Light rail around World Showcase, somehow enclosed to hide any backstage, with mini-subway stations that match the countries they belong to. Not a complete loop, a back and forth between Mexico and Canada.

Now, that's using your creative noodle! Let this light rail stop at the the entrance of DHS and have zero road crossings and I'd stamp it with my approval!

 

[GrumpyFan]

Had this thought last weekend when I was at Epcot. Light rail around World Showcase, somehow enclosed to hide any backstage, with mini-subway stations that match the countries they belong to. Not a complete loop, a back and forth between Mexico and Canada.

We're kind of getting off topic, but why not a PeopleMover? Seems like it would be a great fit.
I've long dreamed of a PeopleMover that would circle the park in a figure 8 style with 3 stations. 1) At the front, 2) Middle of park at entrance to WS, 3) Back of the park around China maybe?

 

[Jake Wilson]

Greetings from tomorrow! Here in Kandahar where it's almost 0700, I already sort of, kind of, know the future maybe a little bit. Yes I keep up with time zones so I know when to call home or chat with the family.

Going back a page or two, it seems like if RSR would be built in DHS, it would not be the attraction that would be hurting. Imagine that Cars Land/DHS becomes a major draw; not that big of a stretch. A person/group goes there and rides RSR on Tuesday of their vacation. Wednesday, they go to EPCOT. With it's lack of details like, say, mountains shaped like Cadillac tail fins, waterfalls, bridges, a race with another vehicle, does anyone believe that RSR will be compared to TT or will it actually be the other way around? I believe the presence of RSR would make TT go from a premier E ticket to a D- or a C+ attraction overnight. That would make Epcot look even more stale than it already does. That may be why RSR would be not on the table for Florida; the law of unintended consequences.

Well I think it is time for Disney to start plussing WDW again instead of getting away with a passing grade. Walt only settled for an A and was always doing extra credit to find out how to get an A+. C- is a passing grade but it will not take you to the top!

 

[Jake Wilson]

If they don't want to duplicate Cars Land, which I've been against in the past, then I really enjoy the thought of having a well-themed Cars dark ride to add to Pixar Place. Then just begin adding in the obvious things to broaden Pixar Place into a true land of MULTIPLE Pixar movie attractions. Move Laugh Floor & do Bug's Life play area as we've said before, MI suspended family coaster, bring Pizza Planet over, make a nice sit-down Ratatouille themed restaurant & get Remy out of the France pavilion, & lastly I would go with a Crush Coaster but themed to The Incredibles.

Sorry for the wish list. I haven't posted in a while because I've not heard much out of Disney that will really "wow" anyone. I am obviously not connected in any way so I'm sure there are plenty of things behind the scenes going on. I'm really just waiting around until D23 because everything seems to be extremely fluid lately. And if D23 comes & goes with not much to show & far off opening dates, I won't be a bit surprised. I'm gonna have to go with the "Prove me wrong, Disney" approach again. They've not done it yet but I'm still holding on to hope that they will.

EDIT: Changed my mistake of Italy to France pavilion. Where's the facepalm smiley?

I actually think your plan would work to Disneys advantage, it would well round DHS and give customers something completely new from DCA, also it would add many well deserved rides to a desolate park. I really like moving Laugh floor over to DHS giving Tomorrowland some well needed space to refurb and expand.
An expansion like this would open the doors to familys at a park desperately needing attractions drawing a more diverse crowd.

 

[Jake Wilson]

Start reading from here.. http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/epcot-dhs-rumors-from-screamscape.865604/page-7#post-5506991

Just both being omnimovers isn't really a factor. The omnimover is just the vehicle to move people around.. it's not really essential/core to the ride concept. You could replace the omnimover with something else and have largely the same show concept.

Agreed completely but the "show" is why people will go. TLM and HM are very similar rides but the show and presentation are COMPLETELY different. I think RSR would do just fine and not take too much thunder from TT. RSR is being cut from Cars land for a different reason, whether it be weather (no pun intended) related or something different.

 

[RSoxNo1]

While it certainly needs a modified theme, I don't think it'll get one. I think it's only going to get messier as it becomes a hodgepodge of franchises united under a general "Entertainment" banner ala Universal Studios Florida.

I'm personally expecting an expanded Pixar Place and a Star Wars land/mini-land by the end of the decade. I don't expect it to be themed further than "DHS: step into your favorite movies!"

Right now it's a collection of Random Crap. That can be fixed where loose themes define specific areas. That's essentially how Islands of Adventure is set up. You could also compare it to MK and DAK, but the themes are a bit more cohesive in those parks.

 

[doctornick]

Right now it's a collection of Random Crap. That can be fixed where loose themes define specific areas. That's essentially how Islands of Adventure is set up. You could also compare it to MK and DAK, but the themes are a bit more cohesive in those parks.

Yes. I understand when people don't like creating a "themed land" like Pixar Studios, but having some sense of organization in the park would sadly be a bid step up.

I also wonder if something could be done with the choppy layout, but it would require a whole lot of tearing down and reconstruction and I doubt TDO would be keen on it. It would be nice if they could make another connection from Sunset Blvd to the rest of the park (in particular, I wonder if they could remove Take Five Cafe and do a connection from RnR to Animation courtyard

 

[MattM]

Well I think it is time for Disney to start plussing WDW again instead of getting away with a passing grade. Walt only settled for an A and was always doing extra credit to find out how to get an A+. C- is a passing grade but it will not take you to the top!

Not really on topic, but reminded me of an old saying I've heard and found to be relatively true. "A students become teachers, and B students work for C students.". I always liked that quote.

 

[marni1971]

We're kind of getting off topic, but why not a PeopleMover? Seems like it would be a great fit.
I've long dreamed of a PeopleMover that would circle the park in a figure 8 style with 3 stations. 1) At the front, 2) Middle of park at entrance to WS, 3) Back of the park around China maybe?

Funnily enough, Futureworld at least, as built, was designed to have a WEDway added.

 

[RTeker]

EPCOT needs a COMPLETE overhaul, I mean sure the TEST TRACK and Mission to Mars are new/updated but all the other pavilions that park need to follow suite. The only other part they need to do is reopen that Body Wars pavilion and upgrade it too

 

[doctornick]

Funnily enough, Futureworld at least, as built, was designed to have a WEDway added.

Really? Can you give more details? I'm curious as to how it would have been set up.

 

[PeterAlt]

Funnily enough, Futureworld at least, as built, was designed to have a WEDway added.

And don't forget about the buried monorail footers...

 

[PeterAlt]

Really? Can you give more details? I'm curious as to how it would have been set up.

Communicore (iNnovations) has a second floor that was designed for a WEDway PeopleMover. We also have buried monorail footers backstage of east and west FW in case they ever decide to expand the system.

 

[OSUPhantom]

The rumors about DHS seem to be compiling with greater intensity. While I know smoke doesn't always mean fire I think may fit the (truth) of the sum is greater than the (truth) of the parts.

 

[PeterAlt]

Did you know that Disney is spending $2 billion on films to be released during 2015? If they don't spend additional money proportionate to what they've spent in the past on theme park attractions slated to open in 2015, there's something really wrong. I don't know what the spending ratio has been between divisions, but spending on film production has curved drastically upward. If spending on new theme park attractions remains at previous spending levels, it will be disproportionately lower than the company's historic spending levels, compared to the sudden up shift in movie production budgets (upwards of $200 million per blockbuster). Dozens of blockbusters are now in production stages.

If anyone wants to do the math, I would imagine that in order to keep historic proporotion levels, they would need to spend at least a billion dollars per year on theme park attractions just to match the 2015 film division budget levels in proportion as a percentage of traditional expenditure.

That would mean E tickets in each park, complete refurbs for existing attractions, with lots and lots of money left over. All you have to do is look at the figures from previous years stock reports to calculate the proportion of spending between the divisions over the years and apply the traditional proportion to $2 billion to see what they should be spending in the parks.

 

[danlb_2000]

Did you know that Disney is spending $2 billion on films to be released during 2015? If they don't spend additional money proportionate to what they've spent in the past on theme park attractions slated to open in 2015, there's something really wrong. I don't know what the spending ratio has been between divisions, but spending on film production has curved drastically upward. If spending on new theme park attractions remains at previous spending levels, it will be disproportionately lower than the company's historic spending levels, compared to the sudden up shift in movie production budgets (upwards of $200 million per blockbuster). Dozens of blockbusters are now in production stages.

If anyone wants to do the math, I would imagine that in order to keep historic proporotion levels, they would need to spend at least a billion dollars per year on theme park attractions just to match the 2015 film division budget levels in proportion as a percentage of traditional expenditure.

That would mean E tickets in each park, complete refurbs for existing attractions, with lots and lots of money left over. All you have to do is look at the figures from previous years stock reports to calculate the proportion of spending between the divisions over the years and apply the traditional proportion to $2 billion to see what they should be spending in the parks.

But this really comes down to return on investment. Disney has seen that they can spend $200 to $300 million on a blockbuster movie and make that money back within a few weeks of release (except for John Carter of course). The ROI on a theme park attraction is not as clear. They could add a new $200 to $300 million dollar attraction to to each park each year, but you would very quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. It's much easier to get someone to see a movie (or even 2 or 3 movies) each year, then it is to get them to come to Disney every year. Also, each attraction you add increses your operating costs, wheras with a movie, once it's made and marketed you continue to earn money on it without having to spend much more money.

Not saying that they shouldn't be spending on the parks, but it's a much different business model then a movie.

 

[PeterAlt]

But this really comes down to return on investment. Disney has seen that they can spend $200 to $300 million on a blockbuster movie and make that money back within a few weeks of release (except for John Carter of course). The ROI on a theme park attraction is not as clear. They could add a new $200 to $300 million dollar attraction to to each park each year, but you would very quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. It's much easier to get someone to see a movie (or even 2 or 3 movies) each year, then it is to get them to come to Disney every year. Also, each attraction you add increses your operating costs, wheras with a movie, once it's made and marketed you continue to earn money on it without having to spend much more money.

Not saying that they shouldn't be spending on the parks, but it's a much different business model then a movie.

Have they learned anything from their own Cars Land or Uni's HP? Both have spent a little and both are seeing considerable ROI on these respective projects. These things are exactly like filmed entertainment. Both have budgets that are similar in size and - if done right - both have similar ROI.

 

[danlb_2000]

Have they learned anything from their own Cars Land or Uni's HP? Both have spent a little and both are seeing considerable ROI on these respective projects. These things are exactly like filmed entertainment. Both have budgets that are similar in size and - if done right - both have similar ROI.

Yes, but you can't add a Carsland or Wizarding World every year and expect those same returns. Both Carsland and Wizarding World were added to parks that had very low attendance with plenty of room to grow. Some adds to WDW would definitely help, but you can't compare the spending rates on movies to the spending rates on theme parks.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Have they learned anything from their own Cars Land or Uni's HP? Both have spent a little and both are seeing considerable ROI on these respective projects. These things are exactly like filmed entertainment. Both have budgets that are similar in size and - if done right - both have similar ROI.

DCA's resurrection was more than Carsland. They went and redid most of the park. More than a billion Dollars was poured into that park (1.2 I believe), more than it took to build it to begin with. That is far from a little. Carsland gets most of the credit for the turnaround and rightly so, but if they did nothing else to that park DCA would not be seeing the numbers they are seeing. Ask anyone who was in that park before and after the re-do and they bascially built a new theme park on the same piece of ground.

WWOHP is a very unique property and not many IP's exist that could bring that kind of bump. Star Wars is probably the only other one... hint hint Disney. IOA was also a struggling park, so the numbers are inflated. Add Potter to MK and the increase would not be nearly as large.

My point is Carsland and Potter are unique situations and would be difficult to duplicate. Star Wars maybe, Marvel in California, perhaps. That's about it. The ROI on films and TV is quicker and in this day and age company's and their share holders want quick ROI.