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Epcot.. aint what she used to be?
- Thread starter mousermerf
- Start date
Monty
Brilliant...and Canadian
- In the Parks
- No
I have to disagree. After the eleventy-billionth new thread bemoaning the same tired whine... Snideness is a requirement! :lol:
Sanity apparently isn't.
H20Babie
Well-Known Member
You know, I don't usually get into these discussions for fear of being blasted. But, being coaxed out, I too agree with merf to a certain extent.
I remember my first time at Epcot Centre, I believe in 1986. I was 12 years old. I was absolutely amazed. The Seas, WoM, UoE, ImageWorks, and Communicore were all so amazing. I think I spent hours in Communicore alone. WS was like walking into other worlds.
That being said, I haven't been in Innovations for at least 10 years. I usually skip the movies in WS because there's only so many times you can watch them. Imagination and UoE are mostly rest stops, with air conditioning. While I haven't yet been on the new Gran Fiesta, I am curious since the reviews have been luke warm at best.
Now, don't get me wrong, Epcot is still my favourite park ... I think it is the most "adult" park, if you will (not that my DS doesn't love it as well), but it now holds more nostalgia to me than any other park. The main themes and countries haven't changed all that much, but I agree that it has gotten away from its intent. Rather than highlighting advances in science and humanity and exploring our future, it has more of a retro feel to it, which, to me, IMHO, is still kind of cool to me.
I remember my first time at Epcot Centre, I believe in 1986. I was 12 years old. I was absolutely amazed. The Seas, WoM, UoE, ImageWorks, and Communicore were all so amazing. I think I spent hours in Communicore alone. WS was like walking into other worlds.
That being said, I haven't been in Innovations for at least 10 years. I usually skip the movies in WS because there's only so many times you can watch them. Imagination and UoE are mostly rest stops, with air conditioning. While I haven't yet been on the new Gran Fiesta, I am curious since the reviews have been luke warm at best.
Now, don't get me wrong, Epcot is still my favourite park ... I think it is the most "adult" park, if you will (not that my DS doesn't love it as well), but it now holds more nostalgia to me than any other park. The main themes and countries haven't changed all that much, but I agree that it has gotten away from its intent. Rather than highlighting advances in science and humanity and exploring our future, it has more of a retro feel to it, which, to me, IMHO, is still kind of cool to me.
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
I'm both excited and somehow sad to go to Epcot this January....
I never experienced EPCOT Center (1982-1993) however I grew up seeing photos, videos, and hearing stories from people who went there. I personally think I would have liked it because I always enjoyed exploring and learning new things from museums, art galleries, and tech shows.
Not saying thats what EPCOT Center literally was.....
Anyhow EPCOT Center as I have argued, while it was a theme park that allowed growth and expansion for WDW and the Disney Company...this permanent World's Fair still was E.P.C.O.T.
It was an experiment in theme park design...sculpting a permanent world's fair.
It was a prototype theme park creation. Can a permanent world's fair bring people in. Yes for it's early years it did, and then it began to slip, but by 1996 for WDW's 25th anniversary (when I first went) Epcot had a nice blend of old and new, and crowds were coming back.
It is a community....no not where people live...but where people work and play and buy retro shirts at mousegears.
Of....well its Of something
Tomorrow....it was what EPCOT Center was all about..how understanding technology and culture can allow us to shape a better tomorrow for ALL of us EVERYWHERE.
You know how we call MK....The Magic Kingdom...well this really should have been The EPCOT Center.
The Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow serving as the Center for technological and cultural understanding and achievements
It's all in a name!!!
Epcot94 and Epcot95 were lamed-down pop culture titles to make the park sound hip. By 1996 the park had simply become Epcot...a word that means nothing.
While the blossom of tomorrow logo was for all of EPCOT Center...it really should be for Future World. and the compas rose for world showcase. The ideas of the future world pavilions being united by logos was a great idea. I don't want the old logos...I want new logos like they did with SSE.
I don't like much of the architecture in future world. It is a clash between the 80s and 90s.
The entrance to Epcot still has the old yellow and grey color scheme and then you get to the desert in the swamp leave a legacy entrance with the overgrown trees and plants and the chiq merfcove is in the corner.
With the exception of the merfcove and the mirror column...the entrance is very uninspiring.
Innoventions continues to look outdated with its salmon painted exterior...red neon lights....and all the overgrow plants as well as all the clutter. It's so cluttered. The future world tip boards and attraction directional signs are each from a different era of design. Everything clashes and contradicts itself.
As far as me spending time in future world in January 2008 on my next trip?
I know I won't like my face being slapped on an animated movie on SSE. I will enjoy everything else but the ending will just kill it for me. I will like project tomorrow it looks awesome.
I always love going into the art of disney store. I will deff go to mousegears and buy me some retro merchandise.
where in mouse gears are the retro epcot center shirts and old walt disney world logo shirts?
I'll go on universe of energy...even though the ride is horribly outdated. Can't go to wonders cause it's closed. Can't do M:S cuz both versions hurt my tummy...I will do T:T Can't go in the Odyssey. Won't even go near Imagination. I will do the Land, and ,maybe the seas again...but why bother.
I will do Innoventions.
As far as world showcase goes..I may not do mexico.....I don't know how donald and his friends help me understand and appreciate mexico.....except for some beaches and hotels.
I also can do everything else in world showcase.
I have no problem with characters in Epcot. Nor do I care if thrill rides are in world showcase. I think both need to be implemented, but sparingly and appropriately.
It's not that I want everything to be stuck in the 80s. I don't want that. I want the message of EPCOT Center (entertain, inform, inspire) preserved.
The park failed because we as a society failed. We became fat and lazy and spoon-fed and in turn got 10 minute attention spans and learned not go care about eachother and out future and rather than learn something why not go ride a rollercoaster instead.
EPCOT Center had to change for the changing times...but honestly not all people and children are lost causes like the majority IMO...EPCOT Center had to change....but Epcot was a result of pengilum that swayed too far.
Here's an example
Why couldn't they have kept the exterior mural of the living seas...done a nemo preshow queue...done a nemo themed theater movie about exploring and discovering the oceans and then we take the hydrolators and sea cabs into sea base alpha. Bingo! Disney saves money by not removing half the stuff that they did, and the pavilion is not only refreshened but becomes appropriate for children, young families, and those of use who want the future world emphasis of sea base alpha preserved.
I guess what bothers me is that Disney loves to cheat now. Most people that visit WDW only visit once or twice in their life. Some will like Disney and some won't. Architecture and landscape are the least of their concern. They could care less about the clutter in Innoventions plaza...they have test track they need to go and run to.
But rather than allow the Imagineers challenge themselves and create a solid identity in future world of all places....future world architecture and landscaping has become mismatched and we are partying like its 1999
If Epcot was ever meant to embody universal themes...than as a Disney park it should carefully implement everything from uniforms...to palm trees...to rides....everything must flow.
EPCOT Center strived....society in general went the way of Imagination...and Epcot was the result. EC+society=E
Ok I need to go take a jog and eat breakfest.
I never experienced EPCOT Center (1982-1993) however I grew up seeing photos, videos, and hearing stories from people who went there. I personally think I would have liked it because I always enjoyed exploring and learning new things from museums, art galleries, and tech shows.
Not saying thats what EPCOT Center literally was.....
Anyhow EPCOT Center as I have argued, while it was a theme park that allowed growth and expansion for WDW and the Disney Company...this permanent World's Fair still was E.P.C.O.T.
It was an experiment in theme park design...sculpting a permanent world's fair.
It was a prototype theme park creation. Can a permanent world's fair bring people in. Yes for it's early years it did, and then it began to slip, but by 1996 for WDW's 25th anniversary (when I first went) Epcot had a nice blend of old and new, and crowds were coming back.
It is a community....no not where people live...but where people work and play and buy retro shirts at mousegears.
Of....well its Of something
Tomorrow....it was what EPCOT Center was all about..how understanding technology and culture can allow us to shape a better tomorrow for ALL of us EVERYWHERE.
You know how we call MK....The Magic Kingdom...well this really should have been The EPCOT Center.
The Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow serving as the Center for technological and cultural understanding and achievements
It's all in a name!!!
Epcot94 and Epcot95 were lamed-down pop culture titles to make the park sound hip. By 1996 the park had simply become Epcot...a word that means nothing.
While the blossom of tomorrow logo was for all of EPCOT Center...it really should be for Future World. and the compas rose for world showcase. The ideas of the future world pavilions being united by logos was a great idea. I don't want the old logos...I want new logos like they did with SSE.
I don't like much of the architecture in future world. It is a clash between the 80s and 90s.
The entrance to Epcot still has the old yellow and grey color scheme and then you get to the desert in the swamp leave a legacy entrance with the overgrown trees and plants and the chiq merfcove is in the corner.
With the exception of the merfcove and the mirror column...the entrance is very uninspiring.
Innoventions continues to look outdated with its salmon painted exterior...red neon lights....and all the overgrow plants as well as all the clutter. It's so cluttered. The future world tip boards and attraction directional signs are each from a different era of design. Everything clashes and contradicts itself.
As far as me spending time in future world in January 2008 on my next trip?
I know I won't like my face being slapped on an animated movie on SSE. I will enjoy everything else but the ending will just kill it for me. I will like project tomorrow it looks awesome.
I always love going into the art of disney store. I will deff go to mousegears and buy me some retro merchandise.
where in mouse gears are the retro epcot center shirts and old walt disney world logo shirts?
I'll go on universe of energy...even though the ride is horribly outdated. Can't go to wonders cause it's closed. Can't do M:S cuz both versions hurt my tummy...I will do T:T Can't go in the Odyssey. Won't even go near Imagination. I will do the Land, and ,maybe the seas again...but why bother.
I will do Innoventions.
As far as world showcase goes..I may not do mexico.....I don't know how donald and his friends help me understand and appreciate mexico.....except for some beaches and hotels.
I also can do everything else in world showcase.
I have no problem with characters in Epcot. Nor do I care if thrill rides are in world showcase. I think both need to be implemented, but sparingly and appropriately.
It's not that I want everything to be stuck in the 80s. I don't want that. I want the message of EPCOT Center (entertain, inform, inspire) preserved.
The park failed because we as a society failed. We became fat and lazy and spoon-fed and in turn got 10 minute attention spans and learned not go care about eachother and out future and rather than learn something why not go ride a rollercoaster instead.
EPCOT Center had to change for the changing times...but honestly not all people and children are lost causes like the majority IMO...EPCOT Center had to change....but Epcot was a result of pengilum that swayed too far.
Here's an example
Why couldn't they have kept the exterior mural of the living seas...done a nemo preshow queue...done a nemo themed theater movie about exploring and discovering the oceans and then we take the hydrolators and sea cabs into sea base alpha. Bingo! Disney saves money by not removing half the stuff that they did, and the pavilion is not only refreshened but becomes appropriate for children, young families, and those of use who want the future world emphasis of sea base alpha preserved.
I guess what bothers me is that Disney loves to cheat now. Most people that visit WDW only visit once or twice in their life. Some will like Disney and some won't. Architecture and landscape are the least of their concern. They could care less about the clutter in Innoventions plaza...they have test track they need to go and run to.
But rather than allow the Imagineers challenge themselves and create a solid identity in future world of all places....future world architecture and landscaping has become mismatched and we are partying like its 1999
If Epcot was ever meant to embody universal themes...than as a Disney park it should carefully implement everything from uniforms...to palm trees...to rides....everything must flow.
EPCOT Center strived....society in general went the way of Imagination...and Epcot was the result. EC+society=E
Ok I need to go take a jog and eat breakfest.
SpongeScott
Well-Known Member
If it's lost the magic it once had on you, step away from it. Quit going all the time. Walk away from Disney for a short period and allow yourself to get your bearings back. Give yourself time to refresh. Try to see it again for the first time.
polarboi
Member
But I think this is exactly the challenge faced by Disney when it comes to Epcot. Back in the 80s, EPCOT Center could wow us with demonstrations of technologies and futuristic ideas we hadn't seen. Things like touch screens and live video chats were amazing to us, years before the internet and webcams came along. We were fascinated by seeing the computer systems that ran the park and the latest technology showcased in Innoventions. EPCOT Center was the real-life magic, while MK was the fantasy. And it had us transfixed.
But then came the internet and the "information age." Suddenly, we are much, much harder to wow with technology. The minute any advance is made, we read about it on technogeek websites. Long before innovative companies like Apple introduce any cool, futuristic products, the details get leaked on rumor sites. And while in the 80s, a lot of the newest technology was being developed for big companies and would be new and amazing, even years later, to the average consumer, today's technology advances find their way into the consumer's hands almost instantly. How do you wow a public that has already seen it all, played with it all, and experienced it all, where you'd have to change your "future" almost daily to keep up with the pace of the technology, and where today's vision of the future will seem outdated by the time you design and build an attraction around it?
We've changed, too. In the 80s, there were no WDW news and rumor sites to keep us all updated on all the changes around the world. Most of us weren't going to WDW nearly as often as we do now, and so even a 3- or 4-year-old attraction was brand spanking new to us when we saw it for the first time. It wowed us partly because it surprised us. We didn't read the rumors of each attraction's imminent creation; we didn't see the photos of the construction; we didn't watch ride-through videos; we didn't know all the behind-the-scenes issues or effects that had been turned off. We only knew what we saw, and we were always surprised.
There are decisions about Epcot that I don't agree with, but I do think that Martin is right about things getting better. But I just don't believe that the experience you and I had with EPCOT Center in the 80s will ever return, not because of changing management philosophies at Disney, but because we live in a different world now that makes it pretty much impossible.
That said, I still think there are opportunities, like there is some technology not widely available to consumers that would be cool to showcase at Innoventions (which seems to me to have lost its purpose), but by and large I think that PCs and the internet are primarily responsible for the death of EPCOT Center.
-p.b.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Wise words there Scott!
sbkline
Well-Known Member
I agree that Epcot has been "dumbed down" in recent years, to appeal to the children, rather than its original intent of being a place to learn and have fun at the same time.
While, as others have pointed out in other threads, El Rio may not have been perfect in presenting a serious portrayal of Mexican culture, IMO, it was alot closer than the present dumbed down version with friggin Donald bumbling his way through Mexico.
I, too, am not happy with the new direction Epcot seems to be taking. However, I don't think it's the dire crisis that some are making it out to be. I still love the place and enjoy visiting, and enjoy it in its new format even though I would still prefer to hold on to the old format.
But for those lamenting that it no longer presents a view of the future and cutting edge technology, there's one thing we all need to understand. Whereas long ago, things stayed the same for hundreds of years with little or no real, significant change, we are in a day and age now where the future becomes the present at a much faster rate. It's hard to maintain an Epcot Futureworld or a Magic Kingdom Tommorrowland when "tommorrow" keeps arriving much faster than we anticipated. The newest computers seem to be obsolete almost as soon as they come out. It's very difficult to build a lasting attraction depicting the future when the future arrives and becomes the present and the past long before expected. Or when the future as you are presenting it never really comes to pass and the world takes a different course instead. I think that's why TommorrowLand had to adopt more of a classic Sci-Fi theme and, perhaps why Epcot it going the direction that we're talking about. It's practically impossible to keep up with a Future that keeps becoming the present.
While, as others have pointed out in other threads, El Rio may not have been perfect in presenting a serious portrayal of Mexican culture, IMO, it was alot closer than the present dumbed down version with friggin Donald bumbling his way through Mexico.
I, too, am not happy with the new direction Epcot seems to be taking. However, I don't think it's the dire crisis that some are making it out to be. I still love the place and enjoy visiting, and enjoy it in its new format even though I would still prefer to hold on to the old format.
But for those lamenting that it no longer presents a view of the future and cutting edge technology, there's one thing we all need to understand. Whereas long ago, things stayed the same for hundreds of years with little or no real, significant change, we are in a day and age now where the future becomes the present at a much faster rate. It's hard to maintain an Epcot Futureworld or a Magic Kingdom Tommorrowland when "tommorrow" keeps arriving much faster than we anticipated. The newest computers seem to be obsolete almost as soon as they come out. It's very difficult to build a lasting attraction depicting the future when the future arrives and becomes the present and the past long before expected. Or when the future as you are presenting it never really comes to pass and the world takes a different course instead. I think that's why TommorrowLand had to adopt more of a classic Sci-Fi theme and, perhaps why Epcot it going the direction that we're talking about. It's practically impossible to keep up with a Future that keeps becoming the present.
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
For me and Epcot...I saw it twice during my weeklong stay in 1996. Like said previously.... my experience...whether it be EPCOT Center or Epcot will never be the same. It will not have the wow factor like my first visit...and that is to be expected.
Yet in 1996 Epcot had gone through a nice rejouvenation. The entrance was still the same, but SSE had been refreshened and there was the global neighborhood. Innoventions was almost new and offered exciting things to see. The living seas was bland but not 100% boring. The land was nice to see. Imagination was excellent as were the imageworks. Honey I Shrunk the Audience was nice and relative to those of us who grew up with the films.
WoM was closed but Test Track was coming. Horizons was open, as was Wonders of Life, and the Universe of Energy was newly reopened. World Showcase was relatively the same since the 80s.
I have not been on property since 1996. It is tiring to travel back and forth in one day. Luckily my appreciation for Disney and being able to go once a year allows me not to feel I have to see everything in one day.
Epcot is very tough to do in one day. It's possible, but not fun.
I went back to Epcot in 2004...my first time sense 1996...we only stayed until 3:00! It was a disaster...we drove there in the morning...and were completely famished by the afternoon. I never got to see world showcase or IllumiNations. My 2004 was with out a doubt the worst of WDW visits.
We skipped Epcot in 2005...and in both 2006 and 2007 went to Epcot for the entire day....didn't do everything *split it up between 06 and 07* but we had a blast because we pased ourselves and enjoyed it as guests, not conquerors.
While I enjoy going to Epcot, and WDW in general, I still find ways to have fun at the parks and to enjoy them....but the "magic" whatever it may be...part of it is gone...not because I have gone to Epcot over the years, but because I am in the minority of people that appreciate the old EPCOT Center....not that I want IT back as it was...but I would much rather have the philosophy and message of the park preserved in attractions that do entertain, inform, inspire.
The majority of the guests that visit Epcot don't want that and just don't care. Epcot to me is almost just like any other park now...but with a mild world's fair overlay. Perhaps thats what people want now? They can go to any theme park and get gags and gizmos and thrill rides and some mild rides.
EPCOT Center dared to be different, times changed, I think the park adapted well in the mid 90s...but by 2000 and with the seas and three cabs overlay...the park has been killed off piece by piece IMO.
Yet in 1996 Epcot had gone through a nice rejouvenation. The entrance was still the same, but SSE had been refreshened and there was the global neighborhood. Innoventions was almost new and offered exciting things to see. The living seas was bland but not 100% boring. The land was nice to see. Imagination was excellent as were the imageworks. Honey I Shrunk the Audience was nice and relative to those of us who grew up with the films.
WoM was closed but Test Track was coming. Horizons was open, as was Wonders of Life, and the Universe of Energy was newly reopened. World Showcase was relatively the same since the 80s.
I have not been on property since 1996. It is tiring to travel back and forth in one day. Luckily my appreciation for Disney and being able to go once a year allows me not to feel I have to see everything in one day.
Epcot is very tough to do in one day. It's possible, but not fun.
I went back to Epcot in 2004...my first time sense 1996...we only stayed until 3:00! It was a disaster...we drove there in the morning...and were completely famished by the afternoon. I never got to see world showcase or IllumiNations. My 2004 was with out a doubt the worst of WDW visits.
We skipped Epcot in 2005...and in both 2006 and 2007 went to Epcot for the entire day....didn't do everything *split it up between 06 and 07* but we had a blast because we pased ourselves and enjoyed it as guests, not conquerors.
While I enjoy going to Epcot, and WDW in general, I still find ways to have fun at the parks and to enjoy them....but the "magic" whatever it may be...part of it is gone...not because I have gone to Epcot over the years, but because I am in the minority of people that appreciate the old EPCOT Center....not that I want IT back as it was...but I would much rather have the philosophy and message of the park preserved in attractions that do entertain, inform, inspire.
The majority of the guests that visit Epcot don't want that and just don't care. Epcot to me is almost just like any other park now...but with a mild world's fair overlay. Perhaps thats what people want now? They can go to any theme park and get gags and gizmos and thrill rides and some mild rides.
EPCOT Center dared to be different, times changed, I think the park adapted well in the mid 90s...but by 2000 and with the seas and three cabs overlay...the park has been killed off piece by piece IMO.
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
Very true.
My first trip to E.P.C.O.T. was as a sophomore in highschool on a band trip. If I remember correctly, The Living Seas wasnt even open yet (not 100% sure about that). I was so excited about this park. The tech stuff was great and the fact that I could quasi visit other countries without having to leave sovereign soil was awesome. Has Epcot lost some of it's attraction, sure, compaired to that first visit. But isnt that what happens with alot of things in life? Especially experiencing something for the first time as a child/teenager, then going back older?
I think it could be argued that Disney's biggest challenges for park developement is our memories. I think its very difficult for Disney to compete with what we have in our heads. Sometimes we need to step out of our heads and into reality (and I admit that Im guilty of needing to do this) and realize that SSE is not ever going to be better than the first time we rode it, Journey/Imagination is never going to be as good as the first one, Horizons was great, but it aint there anymore, and most importantly, things will continue to change, and in all likelyhood in a manner that will never be able to compete with the memories that we have of our first exposure to the park.
Hakunamatata
Le Meh
Im not familier with the breeding habits of the common familiarity....:lookaroun
jt04
Well-Known Member
I find that hard to believe since you are from Houston.
By the way, Merf is not on the boards so it is likely he will be making a personal appearance today. I don't think he charges for autographs yet.
KeeKee
Well-Known Member
That's what I was trying to convey before. It's a little like the folks that visit under 6 times in a lifetime are still dating; the rest that visit multi-times a year are very much married to the parks and really start to see the faults that the first group would be totally blind to.
Honestly, after almost 30 years of visiting WDW, and 5 years working there, it still amazes me. Although, and I have said this before, after working there, I had to take a break of several years before I could enjoy it again. Had to do with that familiarity thingy.
cpeterstx
Member
Well said Merf.
I think, to develop your line of thought further, I want to expand on the issue of a sense of discovery and feeling like we, as Americans, were on the brink of a new age.
Take a look at the world in 1982. Politics aside (no flaming, please), Ronald Reagan was starting to lift the country out of the economic troubles from the late seventies, computers were just becoming big...or should I say small(er). Technology was catching up with the visions of the early futurists, like Walt himself, and the world was starting to become smaller as air travel became a bit more affordable (relatively speaking).
EPCOT was opened at just the right time. Once people figured out the concept of EPCOT, they were amazed by what they saw and experienced. Sure World Showcase was bit stereotypical and boring (hey, I was a kid, I didn't know any better); it demonstrated that we could have a permanent world’s fair environment that grew, entertained, and educated.
Basically, there was nothing like EPCOT anywhere in the world. It was NEW in every sense of the word.
Now, as technology has blown past the EPCOT of '82, the company was caught completely flat-footed and spent too much time trying to decide whether it should be a "Disney" park or not. It cost a great deal of money to rehab, update, or build a new attraction. Therefore, I think Disney sort of gave up trying to catch up and decided to make EPCOT an "amusement park" not an permanent experiment of forward thinking.
Anyway, I'll step off my rickety soap box and go back to enjoying the threads.:wave:
I think, to develop your line of thought further, I want to expand on the issue of a sense of discovery and feeling like we, as Americans, were on the brink of a new age.
Take a look at the world in 1982. Politics aside (no flaming, please), Ronald Reagan was starting to lift the country out of the economic troubles from the late seventies, computers were just becoming big...or should I say small(er). Technology was catching up with the visions of the early futurists, like Walt himself, and the world was starting to become smaller as air travel became a bit more affordable (relatively speaking).
EPCOT was opened at just the right time. Once people figured out the concept of EPCOT, they were amazed by what they saw and experienced. Sure World Showcase was bit stereotypical and boring (hey, I was a kid, I didn't know any better); it demonstrated that we could have a permanent world’s fair environment that grew, entertained, and educated.
Basically, there was nothing like EPCOT anywhere in the world. It was NEW in every sense of the word.
Now, as technology has blown past the EPCOT of '82, the company was caught completely flat-footed and spent too much time trying to decide whether it should be a "Disney" park or not. It cost a great deal of money to rehab, update, or build a new attraction. Therefore, I think Disney sort of gave up trying to catch up and decided to make EPCOT an "amusement park" not an permanent experiment of forward thinking.
Anyway, I'll step off my rickety soap box and go back to enjoying the threads.:wave:
palmage
Member
I have to disagree. After the eleventy-billionth new thread bemoaning the same tired whine... Snideness is a requirement! :lol:
Sanity apparently isn't.
It's Elevendee...................
hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
Please note: The following reply is long, as I've practically shared everything I believe about Epcot below. Please bear with me.
Merf, I hate to say it, but what you say has truth to it. Epcot has lost the spark that made EPCOT Center a window to the future. Gone is the sense of discovery, the sense of wonder that made EPCOT Center so great in its heyday.
Also. I'm aware that times change, but that doesn't mean the message of Epcot has to change as well. Yes, things must be updated, but we don't have to change the message that goes with it. Have we established seabases on the sea floor? Have we truly found a way to grow crops to sustain everyone and still care for the land? Have we united together on this planet and built new bridges of acceptance between all? The answer is no. Epcot is NOT outdated. Many of the ideas expressed in the early years of EPCOT Center have still not been realized. Epcot is, and still can be, a window to the future. Allow me to take you on a little tour of Future World, the Future World that should be...
Spaceship Earth
Let's start at the front of the park. For years, SSE has given the past, present, and future of human communications. As it is the park's centerpiece attraction, the tweaking of this theme to talk about the future in general was an obvious one. However, the execution of it was done poorly. We all know about the descent, no more comment needed. Instead of what was done with touchscreens, why not give us visions of the future all around us, in models/projections? Show us future energy sources. Show us what its like to live beneath the sea or in space. Show us the future of transportation on earth. Here's why. SSE is the first attraction many first-time visitors to Epcot will ride, since its at the entrance. Show us what we can expect to see in Future World. Want to learn more about energy and resources? Check out Universe of Energy. Want to see a seabase of the future? Check out The Seas. SSE would be your glimpse to the future, and like in the old days, your window to Future World.
Universe of Energy
If there was ever a time for this pavilion, this is it. For the next half century, man will be looking for new sources of energy, as we rapidly deplete our sources of oil and coal. This attraction should give us a look at what we've done for our energy in the past, then focus on our future. Explore the possibilities of renewable sources. Right now, it mentions future resources, but doesn't get us excited about them. In fact, the current attraction makes them seem almost inferior, that they are not viable alternatives to coal and gas. Show us how they can be applied to everyday life. Most people know what wind and hydrogen are, but don't know how they could be used to power our world. Show us! Get people excited about these resources. Make them want to delve into them further. Open a new post-show area where people can explore these alternative sources of energy. In short, get people to embrace these new alternatives, because the existence of ourselves and our planet depend on them.
Mission:SPACE
The basis of MS is good, but could be better. Space flight has always been something associated with the future. As it stands now, the story behind MS is somewhat muddled. By the end of the experience, you might wonder, "Were we training to go to Mars, or have we actually traveled to Mars?" As it is, I think MS is suppose to be a training simulation. To make it more futuristic, make it so we are not training to go to Mars, but we are instead traveling to Mars. I think the attraction is supposed to take place in the year 2036. Well, make it 2036! Change the theme to a futuristic spaceport where we board our spacecraft to journey to Mars. Then, have the post show resemble a colony on Mars. Simple change keeing in place what's there, but making the pavilion a look at the future of man's existence in space.
Test Track
This has been, without a doubt, one of the most popular attractions in Epcot history. Its fun and family friendly, but not futuristic. At the very least, the post show could have been a look at cars of the future rather than being a showroom for GM. This attraction is nearing 10 years at Epcot, and I think the time is coming to bid it farewell. There is so much more you could do with transportation. Offer a window into what transportaion on Earth (not space) will be like in the coming years. I'm not exactly sure what that would be. Could be anything from flying cars to vehicles that control themselves without a driver to vehicles that run on magnets (if you watch the History Channel and Modern Marvels, you know what I mean). You could go further, talking about future airplanes and boats. As other have said, we can all ride a convertible on the highway and go 65 MPH. Put us in a vehicle and situation that we can't experience now, but may be able to in the future. Biggest thing, it must be practical.
Imagination!
Alright. At the present time, the only pavilion dealing with the a subject related to humans themselves. First, fix Journey Into Imagination. Update it, but bring back the spirit of the first version. Next, re-open the 2nd story of the post show. I don't care what goes in, just have it relate to exploring and creating. Then, get rid of Honey, I Shrunk the Audience. This show is dated beyond belief, and it should hopefully be gone soon. Put in a show that uses all of our senses, and gives us an entertaining and mesmerizing feeling. Also, get rid of the current pre-show, and bring back something more like True Colors. Most important thing, this show must be kept up to date, which would mean it's replaced at the most every 10 years. I really don't have a problem with the current Imagination Institute theme, but I think Imagination could be better expressed without it. Biggest thing with this pavilion, give us experiences and effects that we could never have imagined.
The Land
The is probably the most cohesive pavilion currently at Epcot; however, Soarin' is a bit of a stretch. To make it fit better, get off the whole California theme, and make it a flight over the natural wonders of the world. Show us rainforests and deserts and other natural landforms from around the world. Some narration wouldn't be bad either, IMHO. The biggest thing, change the exit of the attraction. There are quite a few people who go into The Land for the sole reason to ride Soarin' and don't visit anything else. Make an exit that bypasses The Land and leads directly to Future World. This would help aleviate some of the overcrowding of people entering/leaving Soarin'. For those who want to see other things in The Land, they go one way, for those who want to go somewhere else besides The Land, they go another way. Living with the Land is fine the way it is. It still shows us future techniques in farming. Circle of Life could use an update, but for the time being as a secondary attraction, its okay, especially since its message is still relavant.
The Seas with Nemo and Friends
Finally, we come to The Seas. First thing, change the cab ride. Have it start out as a general trip through the ocean. But then, we meet Nemo and everyone else, and they offer to be our tour guides around the ocean. At this point, make the ride more educational instead of a rehashed version of Nemo getting lost again. Have Nemo and friends giving us a tour of different parts of the ocean, and have them give us some information about these different areas mixed in with some witty jokes. Best of both worlds! Kids will like the characters, adults (especially Epcot fans) will like the educational aspect. After the ride is over, bring back the hydrolators! transport us to the futuristic seabase of tomorrow. Turtle Talk can stay, as a concession to kids. In order to bring the pavilion together with a cohesive theme, integrate more of the Nemo projections around the pavilion. This way, as you walk around, you'll see Nemo in the tank with the other fish. Now you have an updated seas with Nemo, while still keeping the futuristic seabase of the future.
Innoventions
This area will take time. The thing is, you have to show sponsors that enough people would see the area to make it a worthwhile investment. The thought and intention behind the area are good. It just has to be implemented correctly. Once again, this area must be kept current, and can't be left to decay.
One final note. An up-to-date version of Wonders of Life would be nice. I still think there should be a pavilion devoted to the study of the human body. What's more important than taking a look at ourselves?
In this vision of Epcot, note how the world of the future would originate from Spaceship Earth. In this way, Epcot is held together by the theme that everything (from energy to imagination to the oceans) is contained inside Spaceship Earth. While each is seperate and individual, they are all combined and contained within one entity: our home, the spaceship that is our Earth.
There you have it! If you managed to read that entire post, then I salute you! Feel free to examine it and provide different opinions. The thing I wanted to show is that the ideals of EPCOT Center are not outdated. They are still relavant and can still be exciting. Epcot doesn't need to be dumbed down to keep it interesting. For goodness sakes, it explores ourselves and the world around us. How is the world we live in not interesting? Yes, Epcot must change, but lets not forget its roots. Lets bring back the original spirit of Epcot for another generation to discover. Its still there, just below the surface.
Merf, I hate to say it, but what you say has truth to it. Epcot has lost the spark that made EPCOT Center a window to the future. Gone is the sense of discovery, the sense of wonder that made EPCOT Center so great in its heyday.
Also. I'm aware that times change, but that doesn't mean the message of Epcot has to change as well. Yes, things must be updated, but we don't have to change the message that goes with it. Have we established seabases on the sea floor? Have we truly found a way to grow crops to sustain everyone and still care for the land? Have we united together on this planet and built new bridges of acceptance between all? The answer is no. Epcot is NOT outdated. Many of the ideas expressed in the early years of EPCOT Center have still not been realized. Epcot is, and still can be, a window to the future. Allow me to take you on a little tour of Future World, the Future World that should be...
Spaceship Earth
Let's start at the front of the park. For years, SSE has given the past, present, and future of human communications. As it is the park's centerpiece attraction, the tweaking of this theme to talk about the future in general was an obvious one. However, the execution of it was done poorly. We all know about the descent, no more comment needed. Instead of what was done with touchscreens, why not give us visions of the future all around us, in models/projections? Show us future energy sources. Show us what its like to live beneath the sea or in space. Show us the future of transportation on earth. Here's why. SSE is the first attraction many first-time visitors to Epcot will ride, since its at the entrance. Show us what we can expect to see in Future World. Want to learn more about energy and resources? Check out Universe of Energy. Want to see a seabase of the future? Check out The Seas. SSE would be your glimpse to the future, and like in the old days, your window to Future World.
Universe of Energy
If there was ever a time for this pavilion, this is it. For the next half century, man will be looking for new sources of energy, as we rapidly deplete our sources of oil and coal. This attraction should give us a look at what we've done for our energy in the past, then focus on our future. Explore the possibilities of renewable sources. Right now, it mentions future resources, but doesn't get us excited about them. In fact, the current attraction makes them seem almost inferior, that they are not viable alternatives to coal and gas. Show us how they can be applied to everyday life. Most people know what wind and hydrogen are, but don't know how they could be used to power our world. Show us! Get people excited about these resources. Make them want to delve into them further. Open a new post-show area where people can explore these alternative sources of energy. In short, get people to embrace these new alternatives, because the existence of ourselves and our planet depend on them.
Mission:SPACE
The basis of MS is good, but could be better. Space flight has always been something associated with the future. As it stands now, the story behind MS is somewhat muddled. By the end of the experience, you might wonder, "Were we training to go to Mars, or have we actually traveled to Mars?" As it is, I think MS is suppose to be a training simulation. To make it more futuristic, make it so we are not training to go to Mars, but we are instead traveling to Mars. I think the attraction is supposed to take place in the year 2036. Well, make it 2036! Change the theme to a futuristic spaceport where we board our spacecraft to journey to Mars. Then, have the post show resemble a colony on Mars. Simple change keeing in place what's there, but making the pavilion a look at the future of man's existence in space.
Test Track
This has been, without a doubt, one of the most popular attractions in Epcot history. Its fun and family friendly, but not futuristic. At the very least, the post show could have been a look at cars of the future rather than being a showroom for GM. This attraction is nearing 10 years at Epcot, and I think the time is coming to bid it farewell. There is so much more you could do with transportation. Offer a window into what transportaion on Earth (not space) will be like in the coming years. I'm not exactly sure what that would be. Could be anything from flying cars to vehicles that control themselves without a driver to vehicles that run on magnets (if you watch the History Channel and Modern Marvels, you know what I mean). You could go further, talking about future airplanes and boats. As other have said, we can all ride a convertible on the highway and go 65 MPH. Put us in a vehicle and situation that we can't experience now, but may be able to in the future. Biggest thing, it must be practical.
Imagination!
Alright. At the present time, the only pavilion dealing with the a subject related to humans themselves. First, fix Journey Into Imagination. Update it, but bring back the spirit of the first version. Next, re-open the 2nd story of the post show. I don't care what goes in, just have it relate to exploring and creating. Then, get rid of Honey, I Shrunk the Audience. This show is dated beyond belief, and it should hopefully be gone soon. Put in a show that uses all of our senses, and gives us an entertaining and mesmerizing feeling. Also, get rid of the current pre-show, and bring back something more like True Colors. Most important thing, this show must be kept up to date, which would mean it's replaced at the most every 10 years. I really don't have a problem with the current Imagination Institute theme, but I think Imagination could be better expressed without it. Biggest thing with this pavilion, give us experiences and effects that we could never have imagined.
The Land
The is probably the most cohesive pavilion currently at Epcot; however, Soarin' is a bit of a stretch. To make it fit better, get off the whole California theme, and make it a flight over the natural wonders of the world. Show us rainforests and deserts and other natural landforms from around the world. Some narration wouldn't be bad either, IMHO. The biggest thing, change the exit of the attraction. There are quite a few people who go into The Land for the sole reason to ride Soarin' and don't visit anything else. Make an exit that bypasses The Land and leads directly to Future World. This would help aleviate some of the overcrowding of people entering/leaving Soarin'. For those who want to see other things in The Land, they go one way, for those who want to go somewhere else besides The Land, they go another way. Living with the Land is fine the way it is. It still shows us future techniques in farming. Circle of Life could use an update, but for the time being as a secondary attraction, its okay, especially since its message is still relavant.
The Seas with Nemo and Friends
Finally, we come to The Seas. First thing, change the cab ride. Have it start out as a general trip through the ocean. But then, we meet Nemo and everyone else, and they offer to be our tour guides around the ocean. At this point, make the ride more educational instead of a rehashed version of Nemo getting lost again. Have Nemo and friends giving us a tour of different parts of the ocean, and have them give us some information about these different areas mixed in with some witty jokes. Best of both worlds! Kids will like the characters, adults (especially Epcot fans) will like the educational aspect. After the ride is over, bring back the hydrolators! transport us to the futuristic seabase of tomorrow. Turtle Talk can stay, as a concession to kids. In order to bring the pavilion together with a cohesive theme, integrate more of the Nemo projections around the pavilion. This way, as you walk around, you'll see Nemo in the tank with the other fish. Now you have an updated seas with Nemo, while still keeping the futuristic seabase of the future.
Innoventions
This area will take time. The thing is, you have to show sponsors that enough people would see the area to make it a worthwhile investment. The thought and intention behind the area are good. It just has to be implemented correctly. Once again, this area must be kept current, and can't be left to decay.
One final note. An up-to-date version of Wonders of Life would be nice. I still think there should be a pavilion devoted to the study of the human body. What's more important than taking a look at ourselves?
In this vision of Epcot, note how the world of the future would originate from Spaceship Earth. In this way, Epcot is held together by the theme that everything (from energy to imagination to the oceans) is contained inside Spaceship Earth. While each is seperate and individual, they are all combined and contained within one entity: our home, the spaceship that is our Earth.
There you have it! If you managed to read that entire post, then I salute you! Feel free to examine it and provide different opinions. The thing I wanted to show is that the ideals of EPCOT Center are not outdated. They are still relavant and can still be exciting. Epcot doesn't need to be dumbed down to keep it interesting. For goodness sakes, it explores ourselves and the world around us. How is the world we live in not interesting? Yes, Epcot must change, but lets not forget its roots. Lets bring back the original spirit of Epcot for another generation to discover. Its still there, just below the surface.