DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[MrPromey]

The theater show performers are unionized and there are restrictions on how many shows they can perform a day and rest times and such. They already have two casts for this reason, another thing is that these closing shows would probably not bring in enough guests to justify adding the cost.

So yeah, a solvable problem if they were inclined to solve it.

... or one they'd be more eager to solve if they could attach ILL and/or a dinner package to it, I'd imagine.

 

[MrPromey]

Why is that the goal is still a very valid question for a park with insufficient capacity.

I wonder if they just concluded it was more "efficient" to funnel people into Epcot and MK after a certain point of the day.

I'd also have to imagine that the other parks being open later would directly compete with MK after hours experiences, too.

This seems like it would be right in line with management's idea of efficiency, these days to me, especially if this would push people to pay for hopper upgrades or separate ticketed experiences.

 

[UNCgolf]

Just because something represents capacity, doesn't mean it represents optimal capacity.

Replacing / Upgrading Dinorama is something that absolutely needs to happen at DAK. It doesn't mean that the plot of land North of Asia shouldn't also be used at some point, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Optimizing doesn't really make sense when the park is significantly lacking, though. You optimize later once you've got other things up and running; you don't take a park that needs more to do and make it have even less to do for a couple of years.

At least Dinosaur is still running for now, and Primeval Whirl was already gone, so it's basically just a loss of a spinner and some carnival games at the moment... but it still doesn't seem like a smart investment strategy. Once Encanto and Indy open, there will be immediate pressure to build something else because the park will still be lacking but drawing more crowds.

 

[Gusey]

Optimizing doesn't really make sense when the park is significantly lacking, though. You optimize later once you've got other things up and running; you don't take a park that needs more to do and make it have even less to do for a couple of years.

At least Dinosaur is still running for now, and Primeval Whirl was already gone, so it's basically just a loss of a spinner and some carnival games at the moment... but it still doesn't seem like a smart investment strategy. Once Encanto and Indy open, there will be immediate pressure to build something else because the park will still be lacking but drawing more crowds.

They did the exact same thing with Hollywood Studios when in 2017 they had closed Streets of America and Grewt Movie Ride, then in 2018 Toy Story Mania before Toy Story Land for about a month. There was only 3 rides operating at that point and people still came

 

[cjkeating]

They were badly burned with Rivers of Light

Can you elbaorate on what exactly burned them? Was it a combination of all the various issues that plagued it or just that they felt like it wasn't a big enough draw that it kept people in the park?

Everything else is pretty minimal in terms of transportation hassle, but even AKL > AK kinda sucks.

Really? It's a 5 minute journey and the buses are the most frequent/reliable on this route from my experience.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just because something represents capacity, doesn't mean it represents optimal capacity.

Replacing / Upgrading Dinorama is something that absolutely needs to happen at DAK. It doesn't mean that the plot of land North of Asia shouldn't also be used at some point, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

This whole thing of optimal capacity is really just overloading and longer waits. Longer waits make for a worse guest experience, not a better one. Parks need capacity available for high demand days and downtime, both scheduled and unscheduled.

 

[BrianLo]

Why is that the goal is still a very valid question for a park with insufficient capacity.

I’m not defending it, because I agree you globally… but DAK has an attendance problem right now more than a capacity one.

Way more capacity could be derived by merely extending park hours. But clearly they don’t feel they desperately need capacity as the park has dropped like 40% in its attendance.

Where I disagree with executives and agree with you is that they aren’t being forward looking enough and adjusting for the inevitable rebound correctly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m not defending it, because I agree you globally… but DAK has an attendance problem right now more than a capacity one.

Way more capacity could be derived by merely extending park hours. But clearly they don’t feel they desperately need capacity as the park has dropped like 40% in its attendance.

Where I disagree with executives and agree with you is that they aren’t being forward looking enough and adjusting for the inevitable rebound correctly.

Capacity is measured by the hour. Just being open longer doesn’t work because you need more attractions to fill that time, especially when the cost of entry is a premium. This isn’t an FEC where people are only looking to cycle through for a few hours and therefore can come in at a wider range of times. You have to offer people enough to fill 8-10 hours.

 

[BrianLo]

Capacity is measured by the hour. Just being open longer doesn’t work because you need more attractions to fill that time, especially when the cost of entry is a premium. This isn’t an FEC where people are only looking to cycle through for a few hours and therefore can come in at a wider range of times. You have to offer people enough to fill 8-10 hours.

You’re losing me here a bit, it seems like you are talking about two different things.

It doesn’t have enough attractions to sustain some visiting patterns for 8-10 hours. But it does have enough hourly capacity for the guest it currently does hold at any given time, does it not? That’s I think the issue executives are getting caught up in, DAK is probably the least capacity stretched park, despite having the least capacity. But the most sensitive and I don’t think that’s what they are preparing for when 20-25% (or more) attendance comes roaring back.

 

[UNCgolf]

They did the exact same thing with Hollywood Studios when in 2017 they had closed Streets of America and Grewt Movie Ride, then in 2018 Toy Story Mania before Toy Story Land for about a month. There was only 3 rides operating at that point and people still came

This is exactly my point, though.

Hollywood Studios is a great example of why this isn't the best investment strategy, because despite all the money they spent on Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge the park is still severely lacking and probably the weakest at WDW (although it does finally outdraw Animal Kingdom) -- and they're doing it again with Monsters.

The things they replaced at DHS didn't need to stay around long-term (just like Dino-Rama), but it would have been far more helpful to the park if they'd expanded with new areas first and then circled back later for replacements.

 

[Gusey]

This is exactly my point, though.

Hollywood Studios is a great example of why this isn't the best investment strategy, because despite all the money they spent on Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge the park is still severely lacking and probably the weakest at WDW (although it does finally outdraw Animal Kingdom) -- and they're doing it again with Monsters.

The things they replaced at DHS didn't need to stay around long-term (just like Dino-Rama), but it would have been far more helpful to the park if they'd expanded with new areas first and then circled back later for replacements.

I still think Dinoland's update is more of a priority than a new land, especially after Primeval Whirl closed (which was partly technical reasons with hard to get pieces and partly budget cuts). And Animal Kingdom is the park the most in need of a new attraction as part of the WDW park investment cycle (currently 8 years since Pandora and it will be 10 years since that park received a new ride sine Pandora once Tropical Americas opens in 2027). I'm also of the opinion that the Lion King ride for Africa was conflated with the rumor for Lion King at DLP, and that if it did exist for AK, it was very early blue sky.

 

[DCBaker]

A few photos from today:

 

[WorldExplorer]

Not that I'm cheering for them to go faster or anything, but didn't Joe Rohde say somewhere that C+H's half could be torn down in 24 hours?

 

[danlb_2000]

Why is that the goal is still a very valid question for a park with insufficient capacity.

Disney probably doesn't think that capacity is a problem. It doesn't seem to be hurting attendance. People always say they should add more rides to spread out the crowds, but how does that benefit Disney?

 

[danlb_2000]

Not that I'm cheering for them to go faster or anything, but didn't Joe Rohde say somewhere that C+H's half could be torn down in 24 hours?

Maybe, if they took some heavy equipment to it, but it clearly looks like there are elements they want to save.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Optimizing doesn't really make sense when the park is significantly lacking, though. You optimize later once you've got other things up and running; you don't take a park that needs more to do and make it have even less to do for a couple of years.

At least Dinosaur is still running for now, and Primeval Whirl was already gone, so it's basically just a loss of a spinner and some carnival games at the moment... but it still doesn't seem like a smart investment strategy. Once Encanto and Indy open, there will be immediate pressure to build something else because the park will still be lacking but drawing more crowds.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the argument is here at this point. Primeval Whirl took way too long to replace.

If anything, I agree with the sentiment that this shouldn't have been the only thing announced at D23. I think many on here (myself included) were expecting the Lion King flume in Africa in addition to the Tropical Americas announcements.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This whole thing of optimal capacity is really just overloading and longer waits. Longer waits make for a worse guest experience, not a better one. Parks need capacity available for high demand days and downtime, both scheduled and unscheduled.

There's a bit of attrition here too though. When Indy and Encanto open you're likely going to see an attendance increase, but the proportional demand in the park will be slanted to Tropical Americas. Something like Na'vi River Journey could conceivably see a decrease in popularity as it shifts away from being the most recent family friendly addition.

Don't get me wrong, DAK needs more than Tropical Americas, but I view this evolution as a major win for the park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This is exactly my point, though.

Hollywood Studios is a great example of why this isn't the best investment strategy, because despite all the money they spent on Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge the park is still severely lacking and probably the weakest at WDW (although it does finally outdraw Animal Kingdom) -- and they're doing it again with Monsters.

The things they replaced at DHS didn't need to stay around long-term (just like Dino-Rama), but it would have been far more helpful to the park if they'd expanded with new areas first and then circled back later for replacements.

DHS added two very high demand attractions, one was anticipated (Rise of the Resistance), the other probably wasn't (Slinky Dog Dash). The collective opinion on these forums is that all of the parks need more rides and practically speaking, only Magic Kingdom is approaching what its actual need may be (4 new additions).

They announced quite a bit at D23, but a true home run would have included something like this:

• EP: New World Showcase pavilion, update to Imagination, update to SSE, update/replacement to Seas
• DHS: Monsters Rollercoaster, Monsters Dark Ride, Monsters Show, Carousel to Toy Story Land
• DAK: Tropical Americas, Lion King flume, 3rd attraction in Pandora

 

[wdwmagic]

Nothing official but @wdwmagic (I think) indicated here that it will be an omnimover

Not exactly omnimover, but not trackless

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Not exactly omnimover, but not trackless

Welcome back original JII ride system