Effect of Hong Kong Deal on Walt Disney World?

[wickedfan07]

Go to the Disney & More Blog to get the bulleted list that was published by Disney.

Thanks!

 

[Lee]

The more I look at it, the more I find the location of the expansion to be kinda odd. Just plopping all three areas off the the side of Adventureland. Odd spot, and not very easy to get to.:shrug:
Why not put Toy Story land behind Fantasyland?

 

[SirGoofy]

Jay said he'll consider giving the Jungle Cruise at WDW a rehab if you'll just forget about that statement you made.

:lol:

Tempting, but no deal.

The more I look at it, the more I find the location of the expansion to be kinda odd. Just plopping all three areas off the the side of Adventureland. Odd spot, and not very easy to get to.:shrug:
Why not put Toy Story land behind Fantasyland?

Agreed. Very odd placement for Toy Story. But then again I think it's odd Toy Story is going in to begin with. Why not Toontown?

Oh right, because everything has to be Pixar.

 

[Walter Yensid]

The more I look at it, the more I find the location of the expansion to be kinda odd. Just plopping all three areas off the the side of Adventureland. Odd spot, and not very easy to get to.:shrug:
Why not put Toy Story land behind Fantasyland?

Lee,

I agree. It does seem kind of odd where they put Toy Story land. I do know there are some significant space restrictions at that site and it seems the backstage space has sort of cornered them a little. The only issue I have is that it seems they have two main places they can further expand...below Grizzly and to the right of Toy Story. Not sure if the space to the right of Toy Story offers enough space for another land, but if it doesn't or if they do not want to add another land, it seems Toy Story land would be the one you would least likely want to expand compared to the other two, so why put that one there...?

Also, kind of odd for a Disney Park, especially MK park, that does not have a direct route to a land. Mystic Point literally cannot be accessed unless you go through another land...just kind of odd for a MK. But, they obviously had plans to expand on that left side...hence the reason for the big space...so, I would hope they know what they are doing. I do like the art work though.

By the way, does someone know off-hand the size of this park compared to the MK in FL? Just interested to know. Not backstage, just on-stage area. Thanks.

 

[SirGoofy]

Also, kind of odd for a Disney Park, especially MK park, that does not have a direct route to a land. Mystic Point literally cannot be accessed unless you go through another land...just kind of odd for a MK. But, they obviously had plans to expand on that left side...hence the reason for the big space...so, I would hope they know what they are doing. I do like the art work though.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Mystic Point is kind of like a sub-land for Adventureland, hence why you can't get direct access. I could be wrong, but from the description of it, that's the gist I get.:wave:

 

[jt04]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Mystic Point is kind of like a sub-land for Adventureland, hence why you can't get direct access. I could be wrong, but from the description of it, that's the gist I get.:wave:

I like the idea of "sub-lands" or "mini-lands". Maybe it's an idea whose time has come. MK's Fantasyland maybe?

I like how the artist concept works here. It's definitely a departure but has certain benefits I think.

 

[Lee]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Mystic Point is kind of like a sub-land for Adventureland, hence why you can't get direct access. I could be wrong, but from the description of it, that's the gist I get.:wave:

Makes sense, but you can't get to it unless you first pass through Grizzly or Toy Story.
Seems like it would have made more sense to put TS adjacent to Fantasyland and allow entry to Mystic directly.

 

[SirGoofy]

Makes sense, but you can't get to it unless you first pass through Grizzly or Toy Story.
Seems like it would have made more sense to put TS adjacent to Fantasyland and allow entry to Mystic directly.

Oh, wow I completely missed the fact that you can't get to it from AL.

Yea...random placement. Oh well, maybe there will be some new Jungle Cruise lines for Mystic Manor.

Man I have such a one track mind.:lookaroun

 

[Walter Yensid]

Makes sense, but you can't get to it unless you first pass through Grizzly or Toy Story.
Seems like it would have made more sense to put TS adjacent to Fantasyland and allow entry to Mystic directly.

Exactly. I am not saying it does not work...just different. I like the ideas of sub-lands as well, but I feel it needs to be attached to its mainland to be a sub-land.

Honestly, looking at the main HKDL map (http://park.hongkongdisneyland.com/hkdl/en_US/general/popup?name=ExplorerParkMapPage). The park would actually be in real good shape relative to Orlando if they had not gone so darn attraction-light in Adventureland...I mean, that part of the park does not have much (POTC would have helped a lot here). And if they had not skipped out on Frontierland completely from the beginning. Now, I think they have to add three lands, instead of just having one large Frontierland, just to make it sound like it is much more...this is to overcome the 'too small' stereotype that is out there. But, TL and FL is not too bad...TL is a little small, but it is the small AL and no FL that did them in.

 

[The Conundrum]

The more I look at it, the more I find the location of the expansion to be kinda odd. Just plopping all three areas off the the side of Adventureland. Odd spot, and not very easy to get to.:shrug:
Why not put Toy Story land behind Fantasyland?

Honestly I am unimpressed with today's announcements especially after seeing the concept art for the Pirates themed adventureland for HK and hearing the plans Jim Hill discussed (Scary Voodoo Mansion, Pirates movie e-ticket, version of raging spirits). The Haunted Mansion/Adventure Club combo is the only thing that sounds appealing.

Grizzly Coaster looks like a generic hybrid of the DCA raft ride with big thunder

and Toy Story land is an absoluete joke just like Chester & Hester, Paradise Pier, Dinorama. Are imagineers really getting paid to come up with this? A freakin Fantasyland C or D ticket would probably cost the same as this Toy Story land and be far better/more popular.

and JT has the nerve to say that "WDI still got it" frankly im getting concerned that most of the talent is gone even the concept art looks lame now!

Oh and I guess this means the Pirates land won't be happening since it seems Grizzly has taken over that spot!

 

[CaptainJackNO]

In the long term, this is likely true for the reasons you stated (of course, even in the long term, it assumes the park will be profitable). However, in the immediate future and as HKDL experiences "growing pains" on its way to profitability, its difficult to construe said growth as a positive for the domestic parks.

The long term is definitely more important (and I applaud Disney for making long term decisions rather than using duct tape and band aids to fix these problems), but it sure would be nice for some of those "long term expenditures" to be invested into WDW in the more immediate future.

I do not understand throwing more massive amounts of money to entice the chinese people to come. I know, to some extent, you need to reinvest in order to continue to attract guests, year after year. However, I do not understand,m after all this time, still trying to convince the people of this region that Disney is good enough. I cannot imagine why this company would invest massive amounts of money in this park and neglect the flagship park, the bread and butter park, taht turns in the numbers each year for the Theme Park Division, Walt Disney World in Florida.
Also, I know companies make loans and such, but with the profits Disney rakes in each year, I see no reason why the company would have to go into debt to add new attractions at any park.
I do not believe this agreement is the death knell for projects at WDW. I think this is far more complicated than we think.
If some of you are right and investment at WDW will stop due to this agreement, then the management of this company is in no better hands than the ones we so adamantly wanted ousted before them. To neglect WDW in Florida after , year after year, turning huge profits, would be absolutely ignorant and insane. In business, you never, ever ignore your loyal customers. There is no other park, or business for that matter, that has the loyal following and dedication than WDW in Florida. To ignore this is bad business and taking for granted the loyal fans and patrons of WDW.

 

[Walter Yensid]

I do not understand throwing more massive amounts of money to entice the chinese people to come. I know, to some extent, you need to reinvest in order to continue to attract guests, year after year. However, I do not understand,m after all this time, still trying to convince the people of this region that Disney is good enough. I cannot imagine why this company would invest massive amounts of money in this park and neglect the flagship park, the bread and butter park, taht turns in the numbers each year for the Theme Park Division, Walt Disney World in Florida.
Also, I know companies make loans and such, but with the prifita Disney rakes in each year, I see no reason why the company would have to go into debt to add new attraction at any park.
I do not believe this agreement is the death knell for projects at WDW. I think this is far more complicated than we think.
If some of you are right and investment at WDW will stop due to this agreement, then the management of this company is in no better hands than the ones we so adamantly wanted ousted before them. To neglect WDW in Florida after , year after year, turning huge profits, would be absolutely ignorant and insane. In business, you never, ever ignore your loyal customers. There is no other park, or business for that matter, that has the loyal following and dedication than WDW in Florida. To ignore this is bad business and taking for granted the loyal fans and patrons of WDW.

I agree with you as well. Like I said, I enjoy going down there and I really do not require new rides or major attractions to make me feel I am being valued. But remember, I am a one-time a year guest (every year though...starting tomorrow, 25 times) to WDW. In what I have read about Disney, Disney says that WDW, on a %, gets the most one-time a year guest vs. local traffic than any of the parks. For this, they probably feel they have to invest less considering all the parks, people do not get bored of things they see once a year, etc. Additionally, I just enjoy going down there because there is usually one or two things new each year, even if small, and I do not mind enjoying the same attractions. Honestly, being from MA, I just enjoy the amazing CMs and how friendly people are down there compared to up here.

But, I agree that I am concerned that they are alienating many of the people on the board, which can be a microcosm for other groups. At some point, if you ignore your loyal customers too much, they will walk, too. However, I do wonder what would actually make everyone happy on here. I would argue we would still be yelling for more even if they went nuts on spending because we always want our favorite place to get better. But, what would be enough to quell the complaints? Interesting question.

I do still feel somewhat spoiled because we get four parks and the whole 'world' experience compared to the others, so maybe that is why I am not as demanding. I don't know.

The only thing I somewhat disagree with you is about putting more money into HK. Let's be honest. The park was small...actually, it would be about 7 times smaller than the MK going in Shanghai. They have more to gripe about than the French who arguably got the most beautiful MK in the world and they still complained (And their loser president at the time said he would never step foot into a place employing tens of thousands of his people...amazing). However, they put more money into that and it is now profitable and the most visited tourist attraction, top convention space in all of Europe. Plus, remember, Disney basically had to put in $0 for HKDL. HK government paid for everything, so to pay $500mil for a park you own 47% of, and get management fees, is not too bad.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Agreed. Very odd placement for Toy Story. But then again I think it's odd Toy Story is going in to begin with. Why not Toontown?

Oh right, because everything has to be Pixar.

Well that and the land will be a duplicate of one begin built now for Walt Disney Studios Park Paris (opening July 2010). Saves Disney lots of $ and fast tracks additional rides for the park.

It's a clone, Pixar related and has off-the-shelf midway rides. Every Disney fanatic's dream!

 

[spaceghost]

I understand your point but I have to agree with Figment632. Those of us who have been going to WDW have been paying more into the Disney behemoth than we've been receiving in updates for years. We financed the bad movies (Condorman, Something Wicked This Way Comes, etc.), DCA, expansion into Europe and China, and bad acquisitions (CapCities/ABC, go.com, etc.). In fact WDW is the collateral on many Disney loans. Disney has a fiduciary responsiblity to its shareholders for sure but it first needs to fulfill the expectations of its visiting public to remain successful.

I just returned from WDW and was very disappointed at the low value driven primarily by high prices. WDW is a tremendous profit machine but Disney keeps reinvestment low while prices go up. I have cancelled my trip for 2010 because it's not worth the money to recirculate old experiences. Remember that Disney counts on return and local guests to make up the largest percentage of their sales. As prices go up so do expectations. I feel they are reaching the point where increments in price will drive larger increments in expectations because they are charging such a high premium.

For example. All Star Music Resort family suites start at $184/nt (more than the cost of 2 rooms) to get a single bedroom with Queen, pull-out sofa, pull-out chair, and pull-out ottoman all in the living room; once everything is pulled out there is no room to walk! There is a kitchenette with a microwave and small refer but no utensils such as a glass bowl for the microwave. The prices at the food court are outrageous for the quality of food (think McDonalds quality at double to triple the price). Compare it to the Staybridge Suites which is just off property. For $135/nt they have a 2 bedroom suite with 1 King and two Doubles, plus a full kitchen with a stove, microwave, and full refer, full sized living room, free breakfast (eggs, meats, cereals, pastries, fruits, juices, waffles, etc.). I've been an excited fan of the All-Stars but it's not a $200/nt hotel.

Unless the bus system at WDW is your thing, it's not ours so we drive anyway most of the time, we can't justify staying on property.

Come on! Something Wicked This Way Comes was awesome. Or at least my 25 year old memories of it think that it was.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I'm just shocked they are getting ORIGINAL stuff.


...Heck...if WDI can make originl stuff for them, they aught to for us, too.:shrug:

Maybe it's not good now, as everything is going over there, but maybe later we will get some of this "run off".

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

My bet is the land behind Fantasyland is being saved for an E ticket Little Mermaid.

If Shanghai gets Pirates, I can imagine it being themed to movie #3 or at least include a Chinese looking area inside it- a concession to the country with the largest population in the world.

 

[ChrisFL]

Just a note about people who don't want to go to "China" to see HKDL...while yes, HK is part of China in some ways now...it's still very different I think than most other parts of China.

I went this past January to HK, visited some friends there, had no idea what to expect, and was blown away. It is very nice, the food, the people, the scenery, the transportation, its very organized and very clean. After my short stay, I seriously considered possibly moving there one day, I was that impressed with it.

There's 7 million people in HK alone, so Disney isn't necessarily going after mainland China.

I also stayed in the Philippines for 2 months and a lot of people I met wanted to go to HKDL once they add more things to it.

So, don't pre-judge an area too harshly, you might be surprised.

 

[AndrewRnR]

I never understood the debate about WDI making something original vs. cloning an attraction. If it wasn't for cloning of ideas we wouldn't have any of the parks except Disneyland - all the other Disneylands and the Magic Kingdom are to a large extent just a clone of the original idea/design (yeah, yeah they are all different but you get what I mean).

Who cares if it is an off the shelve ride? If it is fun then I'm all for it. Big Thunder is nearly an off-the-shelf Vekoma mine train (with a slightly different layout and a lot of theming) and no one complains about it.

And how can anyone fault Disney for using Pixar stuff? Pixar has created some of the best and most popular family movies in the last 10+ years Disney would be silly not to use Pixar stuff!

Call me crazy but I simply go "hey that looks fun" and don't care if its a clone or off the shelf and to me this whole expansion looks pretty fun.

 

[wickedfan07]

The more I look at it, the more I find the location of the expansion to be kinda odd. Just plopping all three areas off the the side of Adventureland. Odd spot, and not very easy to get to.:shrug:
Why not put Toy Story land behind Fantasyland?

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAua...yMi4zMTA0MDg0ODczMzk3JTdlMTE0LjAzNjI2MjAzNTM3
^ OVerhead view of hongKong isneylan, looks likeit was nder consructionthe the time.

It doesn't really look like they had a lot of choice in where to place the expansion This is NOT a very big area at all.

This is a bad picture, but its the best I can come up with on short notice. from what I can tell, it looks like the space behnd Fantasyland is completely taken p backstage buildings. given the fact that this park is TINY compared to anything in WDW, I'm not sure if they'd be able to relocate backstage stuff even if they wanted to.

Expansion space in this park is quite limited beyond that. It's A Small World is already in the top right corner of the park beyond the train track in Fantasyland which is probably the only place they had to put it based on this bad image. The Autopia (or whatever they called it) is beyond the track in what looks lie all of Tomorrowland's expansin area. This new expansion looks like it will chew up just about everything that's left in the space behind Adventureland. But beyond that there is really no place else for the park to go.

If the backstage area behind Fantasyland could be relocated, it would make more sense for them to put toy Story Land behind there somewhere, probably on the left side of the park close to here they want to put it now. I would put Mystic Point where it is already going, but drect the access so that it comes directly from Adventureland. I would also save room for a PotCaddition for the future. I would move Grizzly Trail to the lower left corner of the park (which looks like it might be empty right now) and add in a "full blown" Frontierland. but that's just me.

Disney must have some reason for expanding the way they are. Then again, nothing is in stone until the concrete is poured, and even then things change.

 

[The Conundrum]

I'm just shocked they are getting ORIGINAL stuff.


...Heck...if WDI can make originl stuff for them, they aught to for us, too.:shrug:

Maybe it's not good now, as everything is going over there, but maybe later we will get some of this "run off".

Well not entirely original.

Grizzly is just Grizzly River Rapids and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad sandwhiched together

and Mystic Manor is Haunted Mansion and Tokyo's Tower of Terror smashed together.

Certainly better than cartoon tie-ins though!