Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Mansion Butler]

To me, the power of "seamless" experiences and continuity of detail is underestimated. They build the rides but fall short on suspending the disbelief. HP is the firs thing the've done that quenches the guest's thirst in a way that drills deep and suspends the spell. The fire and ice coasters are a waste with all of this detail and theming only to get on an Iron Ride. Perfect example of not getting it. Triceratops is rich and seamless.

I think deep theming and seamless experience is the kind of thing people don't mention being important (outside of those of us here who actually think and talk about it). If you give a list of great attractions to people, and put it up against a place, in your description, with fewer great attractions but you can call it a well themed space, the typical person, based just on your description, will pick the former almost every time, I'll bet.

I think it's more the kind of thing that people experience without thinking about, and when it's not there they can't logically or descriptively put their finger on what's wrong, but something is wrong. Busch Gardens vs. Animal Kingdom for an example. And there's a reason why Disney parks are so popular even though there are some places that offer comparable, if not better, attractions, and certainly bigger thrills. And I think brand is part of that, but a huge part is that people go and visit and just feel like everything is right. And even if they can't explain to their friends how Liberty Square transitions to Frontierland across time and space so near-perfectly, the depth of experience put in to all of it impacts them, gets them to come back, and has them giving glowing reports to their friends and building a cycle of devoted support that keeps Disney on top.

Not that seamless experiences are the only thing that makes Disney No. 1, but it's a huge one, and one that I think has a bigger impact on most people (again, outside of this message board) than they realize.

 

[Mansion Butler]

Let me preface this by saying that I strongly dislike Primeval Whirl and Mulholland Madness.

I love Primeval Whirl, but I would happily sacrifice it for something better to look and walk around in than Dinorama. But as long as it's there, I'm going to ride on it and have fun doing it.

On a related note, I actually like Paradise Pier a lot. A whole lot. It's one of my favorite environments in any Disney park (not for MM, just for the whole thing, so maybe this is too far off topic and you can ignore me). I know there is a legion of people that hate it for paying homage to something ugly, cheap, and dirty which Disneyland is supposed to be separate from, but boardwalk entertainment parks are so far removed from my lifespan and experience that they have been able to become romantic and almost mythical to my mind. The old west was a dirty, dangerous place, but eventually through history it became romanticized, and thus came Frontierland. Pier district entertainment is the same kind of thing for me, and a theme park version from Disney I think is great (as us making an awesome steel coaster made to resemble an old wooden coaster).

/randomobservation

 

[flavious27]

Let me preface this by saying that I strongly dislike Primeval Whirl and Mulholland Madness.

Primeval Whirl has a backstory, but it's linked to the backstory of all of Dinorama - in my mind that story is overwritten to compensate for a lack of real theming (and more likely a lack of real money).

California Screamin' has little to know backstory, but I'd say that it falls into the atmospheric category that you referenced as well. While it's similar to the static steel coasters over at IOA or Six Flags, It does blend into the environment better than the Universal counterparts.

Mulholland Madness is awful, I'm not optimistic about Goofy's Sky School either. I do think that if there's an insistence on these off the shelf wild mouse coasters at the very least they should be put indoors.

Wild Mouse rides should only be in two locations, fairs and the shore.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Primeval Whirl, California Screamin', Mulholland Madness qualify.

But that doesn't mean that Disney never did those successfully. Many of the older Disneyland rides (Autopia, Motorboat Cruise, Skyway, PeopleMover) have no real story - they are 'atmosphere' rides (you move around physically).

I'd only add that rides like the Peoplemover and Monorail do have a story, only it's told as part of the overall context of the land itself. They were the "proof" prototype of "Progress City" at EPCOT. They were all part of a "world on the move", this vision of several futuristic transportation systems. You rode the future today. The Peoplemover tells us that we may ride in one in own city someday. To me, "Skyway" was more of an atmosphere ride.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Wild Mouse rides should only be in two locations, fairs and the shore.

On the plus side, at least Primeval Whirl has incredibly uncomfortable restraints.

 

[Disneyparksgeek]

To me, the power of "seamless" experiences and continuity of detail is underestimated. They build the rides but fall short on suspending the disbelief. HP is the firs thing the've done that quenches the guest's thirst in a way that drills deep and suspends the spell. The fire and ice coasters are a waste with all of this detail and theming only to get on an Iron Ride. Perfect example of not getting it. Triceratops is rich and seamless.

I couldn't agree more with this. I do like Universal, but sometimes they don't get the full picture. Some of the rides are amazing, but the queues need some work, and at other times it's the other way around. Harry Potter is an example of an attraction that really a the full package. I do hope, though, that Universal understands that we, the guests, don't always want the fastest ride with the most loops. Sometimes we just want to be entertained.

 

[flavious27]

On the plus side, at least Primeval Whirl has incredibly uncomfortable restraints.

even better

 

[Sabrefan14]

There's a simple reason for that - IoA is Universal's take on MK. Think about it:

MK - Six themed "lands"
IoA - Six themed "islands"

MK - Uniquely themed entrance (Main Street USA)
IoA - Uniquely themed entrance (Port of Entry)

MK - Dumbo
IoA - Dumbo-type ride (One Fish, Two Fish)

MK - One flume ride (Splash Mountain)
IoA - One flume ride (Ripsaw Falls)

MK - Two adult roller-coasters (Space and Big Thunder)
IoA - Two adult roller-coasters (Hulk and Dragon Challenge)

etc.

When I think of Disney and IOA I think of two distinct and different experiences. When I walk into IOA I think its MK on steroids (which doesn’t mean its better or worse). And what I mean by that is there is so much going on: there is City Walk before you get in the park, and once you get in the park you can hear the hulk coaster with the riders screaming.

Then when you walk into MK, there is more of an intimate setting. You can walk down Main Street USA and be immersed in the atmosphere and slowly take it in. Then go through Adventure land and walk through to Fantasyland and just enjoy the park, compared to IOA where everything is coming at you 100 miles an hour.

This does not mean one is better than the other; it just caters to different audiences. Teenagers and Young Adults would probably prefer IOA while Kids and Parents/Grandparents probably like the charm of MK.

 

[Disneyparksgeek]

When I think of Disney and IOA I think of two distinct and different experiences. When I walk into IOA I think its MK on steroids (which doesn’t mean its better or worse). And what I mean by that is there is so much going on: there is City Walk before you get in the park, and once you get in the park you can hear the hulk coaster with the riders screaming.

Then when you walk into MK, there is more of an intimate setting. You can walk down Main Street USA and be immersed in the atmosphere and slowly take it in. Then go through Adventure land and walk through to Fantasyland and just enjoy the park, compared to IOA where everything is coming at you 100 miles an hour.

This does not mean one is better than the other; it just caters to different audiences. Teenagers and Young Adults would probably prefer IOA while Kids and Parents/Grandparents probably like the charm of MK.

I also can never pick favorites. But I will admit that no other theme park that I've seen, besides the original Ghost Town and Roaring 20's at Knott's Berry Farm, will ever match the atmosphere Disney is able to create. Each land has its own feeling, whether it is adventure, or discovery, or fantasy or even romance, each land plays with your emotions one way or another, and truthfully, only Disney can be able to do that. At least without a rollercoaster whizzing overhead.

 

[wdwmagic]

Just wanted to draw attention to a great statistic on this thread - it has become the most viewed thread of all time on WDWMAGIC (That's over 10 years of discussion)! It's getting close to 1 million views! Congratulations to all who have taken part!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wild Mouse rides should only be in two locations, fairs and the shore.

I see no reason to place such limitations on a ride system. While The Dark Knight at a few of the Six Flags parks is not much, it does show how even a standard layout can be made into more.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just wanted to draw attention to a great statistic on this thread - it has become the most viewed thread of all time on WDWMAGIC (That's over 10 years of discussion)! It's getting close to 1 million views! Congratulations to all who have taken part!

We even beat out the "who has the best Castle" discussions! Congrats to all of you lurkers! Now if more of you would post...

 

[RSoxNo1]

We even beat out the "who has the best Castle" discussions! Congrats to all of you lurkers! Now if more of you would post...

I'll try to get some of the lurkers to post with some good old fashioned trolling...

• Adventurer's Club is overrated
• The Lights of Winter were stupid
• Who really cares about the broken Yeti?
• Stitch's Great Escape... Great Attraction or Greatest Attraction?

Discuss.

 

[flavious27]

I'll try to get some of the lurkers to post with some good old fashioned trolling...

• Adventurer's Club is overrated
• The Lights of Winter were stupid
• Who really cares about the broken Yeti?
• Stitch's Great Escape... Great Attraction or Greatest Attraction?

Discuss.

• Disneyland is old and overrated
• Eisner should have stayed to expand the swan and dolphin look to more places in wdw
• Ideas for 6th and 7th gates

 

[flavious27]

I see no reason to place such limitations on a ride system. While The Dark Knight at a few of the Six Flags parks is not much, it does show how even a standard layout can be made into more.

The ride system produces cheap rides, with not may opportunities to theme properly and tell a story.

 

[IlikeDW]

I'll try to get some of the lurkers to post with some good old fashioned trolling...

• Adventurer's Club is overrated
• The Lights of Winter were stupid
• Who really cares about the broken Yeti?
• Stitch's Great Escape... Great Attraction or Greatest Attraction?

Discuss.

I am quite sure that the lack of such posts is part of the reason this thread stays on top. Of course Eddie's insight and passion for what he does don't hurt either.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The ride system produces cheap rides, with not may opportunities to theme properly and tell a story.

Says who? Just because it has not been done does not mean it cannot be done.

 

[flavious27]

Says who? Just because it has not been done does not mean it cannot be done.

There is a reason that a geo metro won't beat a viper in a race, it wasn't designed for it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There is a reason that a geo metro won't beat a viper in a race, it wasn't designed for it.

Even the results of such a race could be changed depending on the drivers. Just because the standard, "mass" produced wild mouse layouts were not designed to be more than compact littler roller coasters still does not mean creative minds could not use the ride system for more or even use just the predesigned layout to do more than just be a roller coaster. When it comes to issues of design, I take nothing as being an impossibility. A challenge? Definitely. Impossible? No. It may take a more creative mind than mine or anybody else's currently thinking about the matter, but I do not think it impossible.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Even the results of such a race could be changed depending on the drivers. Just because the standard, "mass" produced wild mouse layouts were not designed to be more than compact littler roller coasters still does not mean creative minds could not use the ride system for more or even use just the predesigned layout to do more than just be a roller coaster. When it comes to issues of design, I take nothing as being an impossibility. A challenge? Definitely. Impossible? No. It may take a more creative mind than mine or anybody else's currently thinking about the matter, but I do not think it impossible.

Not to stoke anyones flames here, but I love Wild Mouse rides and see them and their precarious nature as a fun system. At Knott's we proposed one as a mine car.