Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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hack2112

hack2112

Active Member
Eddie, I think we should change the name of this thread to Eddie Sotto's take on BEING AMAZINGLY AWESOME (In 4-D!).
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
HMF said:
Eddie' Regarding the Train spiel did you have to re-record that when it was re-named Disneyland Paris? BTW' I Love the stained Glass windows on the Train Station with each land represented.
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I have not been back in many years, so I'm not sure what they did. You can edit it down to "Disneyland Railroad" which is what they changed the lettering to on the trains. I know I'm still the voice of the conductor at WDW (laaaast call. boooooard!), or at least was a year or so ago. It's on the souvenir CD of the park music.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
WDWGoof07 said:
That's very interesting.

I don't post here that much, Eddie, but, when I do log on, I love reading your posts and the other discussions in this thread. It's the highlight of these message boards! Thanks for all your stories and insights.
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You are more than welcome. Here's another Rocket Bike tidbit. We had developed the queue in a way that you were looking down into the Pit Area of the Raceway, where you see the bikes being prepped, test fired, etc. Above you on screens, there were interviews with the alien drivers, footage of their wins on other star systems, about their Bikes and how best for you to ride and compete. Very NASCAR. Fun stuff. At one time, we had guests inside a giant hubless wheel. We ended up going back to the "chopper" design although the rocket powered hub was truly original and a wow.

In hindsight, the whole Tron thing is the best way to go now. If you do it indoors then you can really combine projected moving "grid" roadways that add to the actual speed you are going. One of the issues of even the Rocket Bikes was that you can only go so fast, so how do you really create real thrill? The Tron idea could do that with indoor effects and adding impossible projected speed over actual 25 mph speed for realism. I hope they do something. It's all about how good the movie does.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Exprcoofto said:
I found a concept picture of Sci Fi City in the D23 Calendar, and it has two Bikes going through the scene. Pictures here:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc2/slinkyman-on-vmk/IMG_1296.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc2/slinkyman-on-vmk/IMG_1297.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc2/slinkyman-on-vmk/IMG_1298.jpg
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Wow. That was an early presentation painting done by Eric Heschong, but were not entirely sure of the look of the Bikes yet. They eventually evolved to be more "Easy Rider meets Space Shuttle". At that time, the bikes roamed the whole city to add kinetics. At that time, the Flying Saucers/Rocket Jets were above their live stage area before being moved back to the Star Jet location. A lot of the retro styling for SFC was done by Gil Keppler (great industrial designer) and Christian Hope, a very talented Imagineer that still hops in and out of WDI, and has been involved in many of my projects.
 
fyn

fyn

Member
Eddie Sotto said:
You are more than welcome. Here's another Rocket Bike tidbit. We had developed the queue in a way that you were looking down into the Pit Area of the Raceway, where you see the bikes being prepped, test fired, etc. Above you on screens, there were interviews with the alien drivers, footage of their wins on other star systems, about their Bikes and how best for you to ride and compete. Very NASCAR. Fun stuff. At one time, we had guests inside a giant hubless wheel. We ended up going back to the "chopper" design although the rocket powered hub was truly original and a wow.

In hindsight, the whole Tron thing is the best way to go now. If you do it indoors then you can really combine projected moving "grid" roadways that add to the actual speed you are going. One of the issues of even the Rocket Bikes was that you can only go so fast, so how do you really create real thrill? The Tron idea could do that with indoor effects and adding impossible projected speed over actual 25 mph speed for realism. I hope they do something. It's all about how good the movie does.
Click to expand...

A TRON lightcycle attraction where the current Indy Speedway is would be a pretty good fit. TRON absolutely fits into the idea of "The tomorrow that never was", and the idea of a completely immersive virtual world is generically sci-fi enough to not need visitors to have seen either of the movies. Putting a building up to house it, where the speedway currently is, would also add a lot of show to the TTA. I think I may go mock this idea up.

Also, looking at the map of the area again, the show building for something like this would border a significant amount of the walkway. You could really add a lot of ambiance to that space with some external show elements. Perhaps large "Windows" into the virtual world where you see cycles whizzing by.
 
tirian

tirian

Well-Known Member
fyn said:
A TRON lightcycle attraction where the current Indy Speedway is would be a pretty good fit. TRON absolutely fits into the idea of "The tomorrow that never was", and the idea of a completely immersive virtual world is generically sci-fi enough to not need visitors to have seen either of the movies. Putting a building up to house it, where the speedway currently is, would also add a lot of show to the TTA. I think I may go mock this idea up.

Also, looking at the map of the area again, the show building for something like this would border a significant amount of the walkway. You could really add a lot of ambiance to that space with some external show elements. Perhaps large "Windows" into the virtual world where you see cycles whizzing by.
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Heck. Yes.

And Eddie:
Thank you for joining this board!
 
Slowjack

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
ValentineMouse said:
For decades now, Disneyland has been passive, television is passive, films are passive - and they're all doing fine.
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I just want to jump in here and say that this sort of terminology, which happens all the time on boards like these, drives me nuts. There's nothing passive about a good Disney ride, or a good film--and though you didn't mention it specifically, a good book. Something doesn't need a button and a programmed response to be "interactive." Ever listen to a old radio program like "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar"? That's an active experience--much, much more so than Toy Story Mania. The former engages your imagination; if you don't pay attention, the story doesn't happen. You have to help build the sets in your mind. The latter only engages your reflexes and your fingers.

As a educator I get into this same discussion over instructional delivery; I have to remind people that just because the student gets to click on something to advance doesn't make it interactive--a textbook that engages a student's mind is more interaction than a Flash presentation that doesn't.
 
misterID

misterID

Well-Known Member
fyn said:
A TRON lightcycle attraction where the current Indy Speedway is would be a pretty good fit. TRON absolutely fits into the idea of "The tomorrow that never was", and the idea of a completely immersive virtual world is generically sci-fi enough to not need visitors to have seen either of the movies. Putting a building up to house it, where the speedway currently is, would also add a lot of show to the TTA. I think I may go mock this idea up.

Also, looking at the map of the area again, the show building for something like this would border a significant amount of the walkway. You could really add a lot of ambiance to that space with some external show elements. Perhaps large "Windows" into the virtual world where you see cycles whizzing by.
Click to expand...

I don't know about speedway being a good spot. Like Eddie pointed out, having it indoors would help a lot more, ie scenes, making it look faster than it already is. I think the Test Track building and outside track would be perfect.

But it would really blow if all the cool alien stuff would be lost just to tie it into the movie.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Slowjack said:
I Ever listen to a old radio program like "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar"? That's an active experience--much, much more so than Toy Story Mania. The former engages your imagination; if you don't pay attention, the story doesn't happen. You have to help build the sets in your mind. The latter only engages your reflexes and your fingers.
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Good point. As a big fan of silent film, you realize that you can never look away from the faces as they are doing the talking. Your mind is engaged. Of course Radio is great that way too. My favorite OTR programs are Philip Marlowe and The many lives of Harry Lime. Will have to check out Johnny Dollar.
 
Slowjack

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
Good point. As a big fan of silent film, you realize that you can never look away from the faces as they are doing the talking. Your mind is engaged. Of course Radio is great that way too. My favorite OTR programs are Philip Marlowe and The many lives of Harry Lime. Will have to check out Johnny Dollar.
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Those are both great--but if you like those, I think you'll get a kick of
Johnny Dollar. Note that the show went through many stages, different actors, different takes on the role. The high point was 1955-1956 with Bob Bailey--not only was he the best at the role, that season the show went to a format in which one story played out over five, 15-minute episodes, which gave the stories a lot of room for twists and turns, and left plenty of time for character development.

And yes, silent film is the same phenomenon. The F.W. Murnau take on "Nosferatu" is a favorite of mine.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Slowjack said:
Those are both great--but if you like those, I think you'll get a kick of
Johnny Dollar. Note that the show went through many stages, different actors, different takes on the role. The high point was 1955-1956 with Bob Bailey--not only was he the best at the role, that season the show went to a format in which one story played out over five, 15-minute episodes, which gave the stories a lot of room for twists and turns, and left plenty of time for character development.

And yes, silent film is the same phenomenon. The F.W. Murnau take on "Nosferatu" is a favorite of mine.
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My Silent top 5 would be "City Lights",""The Kid","Greed","Pandora's Box" and "Metropolis". "Sunrise" is a Murnau Classic as well.
 
V

ValentineMouse

New Member
Slowjack said:
I just want to jump in here and say that this sort of terminology, which happens all the time on boards like these, drives me nuts. There's nothing passive about a good Disney ride, or a good film--and though you didn't mention it specifically, a good book. Something doesn't need a button and a programmed response to be "interactive." Ever listen to a old radio program like "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar"? That's an active experience--much, much more so than Toy Story Mania. The former engages your imagination; if you don't pay attention, the story doesn't happen. You have to help build the sets in your mind. The latter only engages your reflexes and your fingers.
Click to expand...

Let me clarify my own position here; I think you are assuming I'm saying attractions like Midway Mania ARE interactive.

Firstly, I do think most Disney attractions (Pirates, Mansion) are passive; the guest quite simply does nothing to contribute to or influence the attraction, they are solely receiver of the experience.

Yes, it does engage the imagination for many people*, but I'm not convinced that "if you don't pay attention, the story doesn't happen"
makes it active. Simply paying attention is a requirement of... well, anything. That doesn't make everything active. I purposefully excluded books and radio shows as they lack a sense or senses (the image, the sounds) that requires the activity of reader/listener to fill in. Films and television programs give everything to you - as do Disneyland attractions.

A good film, or radio play as you mention, may require deeper thought about something to make it worthwhile, but ... these are Disney attractions, they don't require post-reflection to understand their deeper, nuanced meanings. By Walt's own design, everything is immediately understandable and non-contradicting.

That said, there is a difference between passive as a antonym of active, and as an antonym of interactive which I think I was too loose about.

BUT, I'm not saying Midway Mania is what interactive should be. In Midway Mania, you still do nothing that influences the attraction. Yes, you get a score at the end, but this hasn't influenced the story (the Frontierland shooting gallery and Buzz Lightyear are the same). You don't contribute or influence anything. I totally agree that the lasting impression of Pirates will do much more for the imagination and the mind that Midway Mania, but while it's inspiring, its not interactive.

I actually don't think we've seen real interaction in any Disney attraction yet.

I think, lol. You certainly got the cogs turning in my head making me clarify my argument, and I'd love to hear any counterpoints you have.


* This is something that I find many Disney critics get wrong; they argue that having these environments built for you means people don't need to use their imagination, but I very much disagree. They spur on the imagination to a HUGE degree.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
ValentineMouse said:
Let me clarify my own position here; I think you are assuming I'm saying attractions like Midway Mania ARE interactive.

Firstly, I do think most Disney attractions (Pirates, Mansion) are passive; the guest quite simply does nothing to contribute to or influence the attraction, they are solely receiver of the experience.

Yes, it does engage the imagination for many people*, but I'm not convinced that "if you don't pay attention, the story doesn't happen"
makes it active. Simply paying attention is a requirement of... well, anything. That doesn't make everything active. I purposefully excluded books and radio shows as they lack a sense or senses (the image, the sounds) that requires the activity of reader/listener to fill in. Films and television programs give everything to you - as do Disneyland attractions.

A good film, or radio play as you mention, may require deeper thought about something to make it worthwhile, but ... these are Disney attractions, they don't require post-reflection to understand their deeper, nuanced meanings. By Walt's own design, everything is immediately understandable and non-contradicting.

That said, there is a difference between passive as a antonym of active, and as an antonym of interactive which I think I was too loose about.

BUT, I'm not saying Midway Mania is what interactive should be. In Midway Mania, you still do nothing that influences the attraction. Yes, you get a score at the end, but this hasn't influenced the story (the Frontierland shooting gallery and Buzz Lightyear are the same). You don't contribute or influence anything. I totally agree that the lasting impression of Pirates will do much more for the imagination and the mind that Midway Mania, but while it's inspiring, its not interactive.

I actually don't think we've seen real interaction in any Disney attraction yet.

I think, lol. You certainly got the cogs turning in my head making me clarify my argument, and I'd love to hear any counterpoints you have.


* This is something that I find many Disney critics get wrong; they argue that having these environments built for you means people don't need to use their imagination, but I very much disagree. They spur on the imagination to a HUGE degree.
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Perhaps the rub here was that by calling something "passive" (meaning you are an observer versus physically doing something to motivate the show,and it responds) implies that it is any less entertaining (and may in fact be more so on a different level). I would say TSMM is very interactive in that you are affecting the show by participating. If you just sat there it would be different. The design is such that the more you do, the more fun you'll have. All good comments. I guess I wasn't paying attention!
 
devoy1701

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
Perhaps the rub here was that by calling something "passive" (meaning you are an observer versus physically doing something to motivate the show,and it responds) implies that it is any less entertaining (and may in fact be more so on a different level). I would say TSMM is very interactive in that you are affecting the show by participating. If you just sat there it would be different. The design is such that the more you do, the more fun you'll have. All good comments. I guess I wasn't paying attention!
Click to expand...

I hope this highlighted line isn't going to become the standard for upcoming attractions. TSMM is great and interactive to a fantastic extreme. But I can have the same type of interaction now when I play it on my Wii at home. I have a fun time on TSMM but I don't necessarily feel fulfilled after riding it like I do with SM, Splash, ToT, etc. I actually feel more fulfilled in the queue and loading area of TSMM than I do on the ride.
 
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