Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Slowjack]

I want to recommend a obscure french film to you threadsters. It's a favorite of mine by France's rival to Chaplin, Jacque Tati.

Haven't seen that, but I have seen Mr. Hulot's Holiday. As you say, it's a comedy that requires close observation. If you aren't paying attention there are long stretches where it appears to be a documentary instead of a comedy. I remember one bit where the hotel staff is preparing lunch and one fellow is carving very thin slices from the roast, and then as the guests arrive and pass behind him, he makes thicker slices, then returns to thin slices. There's no close-ups, no cutting from one action to the next to tell us what we should focus our attention on. In that way it's like POTC, a story told in wide shots where each visit affords you a chance to see something new.

 

[Mansion Butler]

I would guess Kilimanjaro Safaris.


I missed this earier. Thanks Steve.

I believe Philhar gets an absurd number, if my anecdotal memory is serving me.

 

[Slowjack]

I have to take up for Horizons here, in the fact that when it lost its sponsor in 93-94 it was rarely open and the reason there wasn't a line was because of the ride system and it was a great people eater. On top of that, it never received a proper refurbishment. Every attraction needs a refurb to keep it crisp, and Horizons never got one.

Hey, no one needs to stick up for Horizons to me, it was my favorite attraction. But when I first visited the park, you would have to queue for this ride--not for long, to be sure. The line got thinned each visit. When I rode the last time, I saw no one inside the building except cast members, and again, this was during the time when Test Track was in "extended beta." I agree it could have used a refurb, but that wouldn't have produced much of an uptick in the numbers. The people had spoken. They were wrong! But they had spoken.

 

[Mansion Butler]

to me that's where the line between Tomorrowland and EPCOT lie

Seconding this.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I hear you, but to me that's where the line between Tomorrowland and EPCOT lie. It's a fine line. Sci-Fi to me (maybe you don't mean that when you say StarTrek) is more of WDW Mk Tomorrowland material (like TDL SF City) as it borders on fantasy, and EPCOT although futuristic, has it's leaps of faith a bit more grounded or fact based. Not always but it's a guiding principle. If I was to deliver on your request, I'd do it justice as a space themed resort or hotel which is more passive. The bar or restaurant would be what you describe, for as those experiences are not as much ride based as they are immersive.

While I do think Future World is based more on reality, how do you feel about the renaming/rebranding concept of Discoveryland? Isn't that name more accurate for the current Future World?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

While I do think Future World is based more on reality, how do you feel about the renaming/rebranding concept of Discoveryland? Isn't that name more accurate for the current Future World?

As far as I know, Discoveryland (DLP) is mostly science fiction based as it's based on Jules Verne stories like "From the Earth to the Moon", "20k", etc. It's a good move for DLP. As far as the name goes, I like Future World, if they would only live up to it! I think the "land" titles should stay in the MK.

 

[RandySavage]

Hey, no one needs to stick up for Horizons to me, it was my favorite attraction. But when I first visited the park, you would have to queue for this ride--not for long, to be sure. The line got thinned each visit. When I rode the last time, I saw no one inside the building except cast members, and again, this was during the time when Test Track was in "extended beta." I agree it could have used a refurb, but that wouldn't have produced much of an uptick in the numbers. The people had spoken. They were wrong! But they had spoken.

Horizons (my personal all-time #1 as well) is, to me, like NYC's original Penn Station... this singular, amazing creation, that was under-appreciated in its time, saw usage and maintenance dwindle, and was finally demolished. Only post-mortem did some realize what an irreplaceable treasure it was:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Horizons (my personal all-time #1 as well) is, to me, like NYC's original Penn Station... this singular, amazing creation, that was under-appreciated in its time, saw usage and maintenance dwindle, and was finally demolished. Only post-mortem did some realize what an irreplaceable treasure it was:

Penn Station..that's very high praise.

To me, Horizons was the theme attraction and should have been in the Ball or at least where Communicore is.. I think the faceted building was a big dud and so was the name. Why walk over there? "Horizons" sounds more like a Retirement Community than the exciting future inside. At least MS is an exciting exterior (even if you don't like the ride). You can't really market a name like "Horizons" like you could "Futurama" or "Yesterdays Tomorrows". If it had a Jetsons Exterior or something really fetching that looked like Progress City Skyline, I guarantee you there would still be a line. I needed to be the first thing you went on as the other shows are just fragments of a bigger picture. End of rant.

 

[ChrisFL]

Penn Station..that's very high praise.

To me, Horizons was the theme attraction and should have been in the Ball or at least where Communicore is.. I think the faceted building was a big dud and so was the name. It said nothing. Why walk over there? At least MS is an exciting exterior worth the walk. You can't really market a name like "Horizons" like you could "Futurama" or "Yesterdays Tomorrows". If it had a Jetsons Exterior or something really fetching that looked like Progress City Skyline, and was called "Tomorrows", I guarantee you there would still be a line. I needed to be the first thing you went on as the other shows are just fragments of a bigger picture.

"Horizons" was still better than "FutureProbe"

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In that way it's like POTS, a story told in wide shots where each visit affords you a chance to see something new.

Great observation!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Penn Station..that's very high praise.

To me, Horizons was the theme attraction and should have been in the Ball or at least where Communicore is.. I think the faceted building was a big dud and so was the name. Why walk over there? "Horizons" sounds more like a Retirement Community than the exciting future inside. At least MS is an exciting exterior (even if you don't like the ride). You can't really market a name like "Horizons" like you could "Futurama" or "Yesterdays Tomorrows". If it had a Jetsons Exterior or something really fetching that looked like Progress City Skyline, I guarantee you there would still be a line. I needed to be the first thing you went on as the other shows are just fragments of a bigger picture. End of rant.

I've always thought the Horizons building was the weakest of the bunch in EPCOT. It never drew me towards it, the way I am drawn to the ball like Richard Dreyfuss is drawn towards that tabletop mountain in Close Encounters. On top of that, the entrance itself looked like one from an uninviting eighties provincial office building, perhaps housing a local accountancy firm.

But I have one qualm about the M:S building too. It does not fit FW East. FW East's aesthetic is 'straightforward geometrical shapes' for the buildings, and straight pathways with sharp edges. The freely swerving curved lines of M:S completely clash with that. It means a further deterioration of a once unified theme. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb as much as the Aladdin spinner in AL.

If I had one regret about the old EPCOT, it was that Horizons should've been the attraction in the ball. So happy to hear you share this thought. Horizons was 'the one ring to bind them all'. The unifying ride, where all the technology and imagination and resources are shown, working together not for an impersonal future, not as abstracts, but as a means to improve family life, in an intimate setting that was ultimately about people getting together. *sigh * I don't think Disney has ever build a ride that was more 'Disney' than Horizons.

'Communication', for it's part, would thematically have fitted perfectly between Motion and Energy.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

But I have one qualm about the M:S building too. It does not fit FW East. FW East's aesthetic is 'straightforward geometrical shapes' for the buildings, and straight pathways with sharp edges. The freely swerving curved lines of M:S completely clash with that. It means a further deterioration of a once unified theme. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb as much as the Aladdin spinner in AL. .

Funny you bring that up. The first MS building was a massive Cube with a planet inside. Then the Rose planetarium in NYC opened and it was too close to that. It's true that it does not follow the geometric style of the other buildings, but given how well Horizons did in that area we broke rank and went for making Space seem more romantic.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

"Horizons" was still better than "FutureProbe"

What was futureprobe? Wasn't that some show element?

 

[ChrisFL]

What was futureprobe? Wasn't that some show element?

It was one of the working titles for the attraction before they decided to use "Horizons". "Century 3" was another possible title.

 

[Slowjack]

Penn Station..that's very high praise.

To me, Horizons was the theme attraction and should have been in the Ball or at least where Communicore is.. I think the faceted building was a big dud and so was the name. Why walk over there? "Horizons" sounds more like a Retirement Community than the exciting future inside. At least MS is an exciting exterior (even if you don't like the ride). You can't really market a name like "Horizons" like you could "Futurama" or "Yesterdays Tomorrows". If it had a Jetsons Exterior or something really fetching that looked like Progress City Skyline, I guarantee you there would still be a line. I needed to be the first thing you went on as the other shows are just fragments of a bigger picture. End of rant.

I agree with you there. Most of the original Future World pavilions suffered from that to some extent. "The Land" doesn't promise excitement with that name, and the pavilion barely has an entrance. The World of Motion fared a little better just because of how the track snaked around that pole outside--you at least understood there was a ride inside!

 

[devoy1701]

Eddie, not sure if it's been discussed at all in the past 330 pages or not. 2719 Hyperion had a short blog about Disney's America today. Did you have any role in the designs and/or attractions that were slated for the park that never came to be?

 

[misterID]

Penn Station..that's very high praise.

To me, Horizons was the theme attraction and should have been in the Ball or at least where Communicore is.. I think the faceted building was a big dud and so was the name. Why walk over there? "Horizons" sounds more like a Retirement Community than the exciting future inside. At least MS is an exciting exterior (even if you don't like the ride). You can't really market a name like "Horizons" like you could "Futurama" or "Yesterdays Tomorrows". If it had a Jetsons Exterior or something really fetching that looked like Progress City Skyline, I guarantee you there would still be a line. I needed to be the first thing you went on as the other shows are just fragments of a bigger picture. End of rant.

Wow, you've pretty much summed up my feelings about it.

Horizons should have been retheed to Spielberg's research of the future (the future summit) when making Minority Report, which made companies actually invest in creating what was invisioned film, which ironically included HP.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, not sure if it's been discussed at all in the past 330 pages or not. 2719 Hyperion had a short blog about Disney's America today. Did you have any role in the designs and/or attractions that were slated for the park that never came to be?

No, I didn't have much to do with it. I may have attended one or two brainstorming meetings, but that was it.

I did do a proposal for a theme park in the DL parking lot called "Walt Disney's America" back in 1986. It was the first thing I ever proposed when I joined WED. They'd give you busy work when they have nothing concrete to work on. It was a forefunner of the IOA layout with a central "Island" in the middle of a lake with a Lalique crystal "Statue of Liberty" as it's "Castle Hub". In it's base was the theme show of the park. This would light up and be the beacon and backdrop for water shows and such. Several bridges linked it to surrounding "regions" (I can't recall what they were) that were dedicated to different periods. Marty liked it alot but it was shotdown in about ten seconds. Welcome to WED. Some ideas shouldn't get built.

 

[Mansion Butler]

No, I didn't have much to do with it. I may have attended one or two brainstorming meetings, but that was it.

I did do a proposal for a theme park in the DL parking lot called "Walt Disney's America" back in 1986. It was the first thing I ever proposed when I joined WED. They'd give you busy work when they have nothing concrete to work on. It was a forefunner of the IOA layout with a central "Island" in the middle of a lake with a Lalique crystal "Statue of Liberty" as it's "Castle Hub". In it's base was the theme show of the park. This would light up and be the beacon and backdrop for water shows and such. Several bridges linked it to surrounding "regions" (I can't recall what they were) that were dedicated to different periods. Marty liked it alot but it was shotdown in about ten seconds. Welcome to WED. Some ideas shouldn't get built.

So, the "busy work" is designing entire theme parks that have little shot of being built and letting Marty Sklar see them.

What a fascinating work environment to try and picture when you're not actually a part of it. :lol:

That tickles me, as does posting on a message board with someone familiar enough with Sklar to call him "Marty." My friend is in a position to talk to him regularly and it makes me jealous as all get out.

 

[HMF]

HMF, not sure if you are making a joke there. I was just talking about the hat as per its appearance in Fantasia, and its implications for the WDI logo. I want to be absolutely clear that I have no love for the giant hat at the Studios!

It was a joke as both the "Wand"(Epcot) and the "hat"(DHS) are frequent objects of angst in the fan boards