Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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Mansion Butler

Active Member
You may have seen this already as it's been posted more than a year ago, but I thought it was interesting. This is virtual Haunted Mansion in a first person shooter is pretty cool looking.

HM modeled into Counterstrike as a game level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBdWAr_FIsM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHJPHXdPEMo&feature=related

http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=58284
I actually have seen that! Isn't it cool?!

Have you ever seen/played the Haunted Mansion video game? Not only is it a fun, underrated game, but in a time when Eddie Murphy's movie was fairly fresh, it's based on the ride. Tons of nifty little Haunted Mansion details, just about all the ghosts you'd recognize hanging around to be talked to, and a final boss fight in the stretch room.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
By the way.. A new chapter in Rivera history opened last night to a packed house. Playa Rivera. It is inspired by the original Rivera downtown, but more casual and in Hollywood.

I was not as involved in the design as at the original Rivera, but as mother said in the Carousel of Progress, "it's not exactly Disneyland, but it IS clean, bright and lots of fun". Enjoy it if you are down that way.

http://www.playarivera.com/
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
True. We just might. We had a meeting there yesterday on something small. WDI is all of a sudden very busy again. That's good news.

Very good to hear on all fronts. Having talent like yourself back can only be good, no matter the size of the project.

With Shanghai about to break ground plus the major projects in Anaheim and Hong Kong ... oh, and that little WDW one too, it's not surprising that things are a bit busy again.

I do worry when folks like Tony Baxter and Joe Rohde have nothing of substance on their plates, however.

Nice to hear your voice, welcome back. Glad you like Hunny Hunt, it's something I'd thought we'd see more of in the states by now. There was a group of imagineers that had to work very hard to make that ride work reliably so we'll pass your compliments on to them telepathically!

Thanks. You're one of a select few in these parts apparently!:)

I loved Hunny Hunt. I admit I was skeptical that anything themed to Pooh could ever be an E-Ticket, but that attraction certainly is. From the wonderful immersive queue to the AAs to the great ride system. Hard to fathom that it was developed over a decade ago and yet hasn't gone beyond Tokyo Bay.

It also gets you thinking. Disney has so many amazing characters and franchises that still have the cardboard and blacklight approach in 2011. After soaring with Harry Potter at IOA (the absolute BEST thing going in O-Town right now), it makes you wonder what a real 21st century take on Peter Pan's Flight could be ... think of all the technologies and special effects that could take you to Neverland ... or on a Wild Ride with Mr. Toad or on a Magic Carpet with Aladdin and Jasmine or on an escape from the clutches of Cruella etc ... possibilities are endless, yet nothing like that is happening. You're doing something with Dumbo in 2011 and the answer is to simply add a second spinner and an interactive queue? Why not rethink the entire concept? Isn't that what folks like Walt and John Hench would have done?

Mermaid should be a very nice D-Ticket type Omnimover, but it certainly isn't raising the bar at all ... yet Hunny Hunt did over a decade ago. What was that thing that Walt said about resting on laurels?

As an aside, I was blown away by the entire Tokyo Disney Resort ... TDS is the first Disney park I've ever been in that has made me feel that I wasn't on a movie set, but an actual participant in the film/narrative. That level of immersion is something to behold. It was so impressive that I missed a 6.9 earthquake (and even though I've lived in LA, I have never experienced a quake) at TDS while in the queue for JTTCoTE because I just thought the rumbling and shaking were part of the show (and that volcano does indeed do both). When the lights came on and the attraction shut down, I just assumed it was the old 'Test Track' ride system that has its issues. No one panicked and the only langauge announcement was in Japanese. Park stayed open. No one was acting strange (Duffy obsessions aside). Wasn't til I met friends for dinner that I was told that indeed there had been a quake that made buildings sway in Tokyo.

To me, that speaks volumes about the skill, craftsmanship and showmanship on display in Tokyo.

The only thing in Orlando I've seen that's on that level right now would be WWoHP.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Eddie' you mentioned several pages back the "Pirates lawsuit" website.
http://disneylawsuit.com/
While I am not sure whether the man in question really is what he claims to be but it does seem like he has a point about some of the "revisionist history" I am not saying I agree with the guy but this is a fascinating document.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
As an aside, I was blown away by the entire Tokyo Disney Resort ... TDS is the first Disney park I've ever been in that has made me feel that I wasn't on a movie set, but an actual participant in the film/narrative. That level of immersion is something to behold.

Yes, absolutely.

While WDI went and set the bar really high in Tokyo, I bet Disney was actually hoping that it was kept a good secret and people wouldn't know how much good (read: expensive) stuff was over there...but more and more people are starting to realize it.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie' you mentioned several pages back the "Pirates lawsuit" website.
http://disneylawsuit.com/
While I am not sure whether the man in question really is what he claims to be but it does seem like he has a point about some of the "revisionist history" I am not saying I agree with the guy but this is a fascinating document.

Especially when he released a CD game that was for sale years before that had that same storyline. He may be revising history, but the shreds of it that remain seem pretty ominous. Especially when it was a real product on the shelf. Here's what he says..


"In 1994 / 1995 - Royce Mathew filmed and published worldwide a derivative work of his original supernatural pirate story. The same key sequences of Royce Mathew’s supernatural pirate movie, the core story with his fictional inventions, structural blueprints and certain dialogue which were created solely by and appear in Royce Mathew’s 1994 short condensed supernatural pirate movie that was published on CD-ROM in 1995 appear in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl movie and was credited to Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio.

My published 1994 short condensed (low budget) supernatural pirate movie (sold in stores & shown at the 1995 industry E-3 trade show Los Angeles, California) features the Black Pearl pirate ship; a gold medallion on a gold chain with mystic properties - able to "summon/call" especially near the ocean; pirates who don't want anything to do with the plunder/return a treasure because they are cursed; pirates are not being able to enjoy the pleasures of life, like crying, enjoyment of eating and having everlasting thirst. The effects of the curse the pirates endure is revealed by moonlight, revealing decaying flesh skeletons. My story also features five main characters: the eleven year old protagonist who takes the gold in the opening scene & the hold out of the gold medallion by the gold chain / drop it or not scene; the eccentric pirate; the blacksmith; the evil pirate captain who is cursed; the apple/hunger scene between the protagonist and the evil pirate captain involving the gold medallion on the gold chain; and the one eye comic relief pirate. In the opening scene, the young protagonist takes a piece of gold from the shipwreck victim, thus becomes a thief, and sets the story in motion. The one eye pirate then comes after the gold piece. Number of times "to the Black Pearl" is said in Royce Mathew's 1994 supernatural pirate movie - Twice. The number of times "to the Black Pearl" is said in Disney's 2003 supernatural pirate movie - Twice. There is much, much more and none of this was ever originally planned for, designed for or ever found in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean ride attractions. (Yet all of these sequences, as well as Universal’s Swashbuckler “pirate hanging sequence” and Warner Bros. The Crimson Pirate “walking underwater under the overturned rowboat sequence”, appear in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl 2003 movie and was credited to Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio.) "
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Mermaid should be a very nice D-Ticket type Omnimover, but it certainly isn't raising the bar at all ... yet Hunny Hunt did over a decade ago. What was that thing that Walt said about resting on laurels?

I was blown away the first time I rode Hunny Hunt in Tokyo. The friends I was with got right back in line to do it again because our jaws were dropped open the entire time and we had to re-ride to actually feel like we'd done it.

I was interested to see in the latest exhibit installed a few weeks ago in DCA's Blue Sky Cellar Preview Center that Mermaid's design progression had a period in '07 where it would have used the Hunny Hunt ride system. The Under The Sea room would have been like the Heffalumps scene where the vehicles go randomly shooting through that scene in different directions. Around early '08, from the dates on the blueprints displayed, they landed on an Omnimover system for the ride instead of the GPS trackless vehicles.

I would still like to see that Hunny Hunt ride system show up somewhere in the American parks. But it would need a really good story that could play up the possibilities of that system. Pooh was a great story to use with it, but maybe there is something even better out there waiting?
 

Mansion Butler

Active Member
I would still like to see that Hunny Hunt ride system show up somewhere in the American parks. But it would need a really good story that could play up the possibilities of that system. Pooh was a great story to use with it, but maybe there is something even better out there waiting?
Return of Dream Finder.

:lookaroun
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Especially when he released a CD game that was for sale years before that had that same storyline. He may be revising history, but the shreds of it that remain seem pretty ominous. Especially when it was a real product on the shelf. Here's what he says..


"In 1994 / 1995 - Royce Mathew filmed and published worldwide a derivative work of his original supernatural pirate story. The same key sequences of Royce Mathew’s supernatural pirate movie, the core story with his fictional inventions, structural blueprints and certain dialogue which were created solely by and appear in Royce Mathew’s 1994 short condensed supernatural pirate movie that was published on CD-ROM in 1995 appear in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl movie and was credited to Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio.

My published 1994 short condensed (low budget) supernatural pirate movie (sold in stores & shown at the 1995 industry E-3 trade show Los Angeles, California) features the Black Pearl pirate ship; a gold medallion on a gold chain with mystic properties - able to "summon/call" especially near the ocean; pirates who don't want anything to do with the plunder/return a treasure because they are cursed; pirates are not being able to enjoy the pleasures of life, like crying, enjoyment of eating and having everlasting thirst. The effects of the curse the pirates endure is revealed by moonlight, revealing decaying flesh skeletons. My story also features five main characters: the eleven year old protagonist who takes the gold in the opening scene & the hold out of the gold medallion by the gold chain / drop it or not scene; the eccentric pirate; the blacksmith; the evil pirate captain who is cursed; the apple/hunger scene between the protagonist and the evil pirate captain involving the gold medallion on the gold chain; and the one eye comic relief pirate. In the opening scene, the young protagonist takes a piece of gold from the shipwreck victim, thus becomes a thief, and sets the story in motion. The one eye pirate then comes after the gold piece. Number of times "to the Black Pearl" is said in Royce Mathew's 1994 supernatural pirate movie - Twice. The number of times "to the Black Pearl" is said in Disney's 2003 supernatural pirate movie - Twice. There is much, much more and none of this was ever originally planned for, designed for or ever found in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean ride attractions. (Yet all of these sequences, as well as Universal’s Swashbuckler “pirate hanging sequence” and Warner Bros. The Crimson Pirate “walking underwater under the overturned rowboat sequence”, appear in Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl 2003 movie and was credited to Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio.) "
The re-assigning of the Collin Campell piece was pretty shady on Disneys part. Also the putting words in Marc Davis's mouth. BTW' Here is something I posted on another board.
"Which completely contradicts the message of the original ride which is Crime doesn't pay Dead Men Tell No Tales. A life of piracy is not worth the price you will pay. Now it ends with Jack toasting piracy and Davy Jones telling you Dead Men DO tell tales. The moral of the story has been completely reversed. The only place to see the "real" Pirates of the Caribbean ride is in Paris now."
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
The re-assigning of the Collin Campell piece was pretty shady on Disneys part. Also the putting words in Marc Davis's mouth. BTW' Here is something I posted on another board.
"Which completely contradicts the message of the original ride which is Crime doesn't pay Dead Men Tell No Tales. A life of piracy is not worth the price you will pay. Now it ends with Jack toasting piracy and Davy Jones telling you Dead Men DO tell tales. The moral of the story has been completely reversed. The only place to see the "real" Pirates of the Caribbean ride is in Paris now."

In later framing those scenes with a moral, that was always admitted openly as to it being an addition to what was there. The funny thing is that those additions had nothing to do with the supernatural story of the movie trilogy. If anything they conflict with the logic. So it would be difficult to claim that the ride actually inspired the "putting the treasure back/ living skeleton" premise and that it pre existed as argued. I'd like to see how many and the packaging for these products that were supposedly "sold" at E3. It's kind of a "smoking gun" if he can prove in the product that there was a "Black Pearl" and the supernatural premise in his project and that it was published. Still a bit too sketchy to me.

The company explanation has an "Oswald acted alone" ring to it.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I was blown away the first time I rode Hunny Hunt in Tokyo. The friends I was with got right back in line to do it again because our jaws were dropped open the entire time and we had to re-ride to actually feel like we'd done it.

I was interested to see in the latest exhibit installed a few weeks ago in DCA's Blue Sky Cellar Preview Center that Mermaid's design progression had a period in '07 where it would have used the Hunny Hunt ride system. The Under The Sea room would have been like the Heffalumps scene where the vehicles go randomly shooting through that scene in different directions. Around early '08, from the dates on the blueprints displayed, they landed on an Omnimover system for the ride instead of the GPS trackless vehicles.

I would still like to see that Hunny Hunt ride system show up somewhere in the American parks. But it would need a really good story that could play up the possibilities of that system. Pooh was a great story to use with it, but maybe there is something even better out there waiting?

We pitched several suggestions but they did not fly. That ride system breaks some very big rules in design and if used in an innovative way really would differentiate itself. Hunny Hunt just scratched the surface, I hope they use it at some point.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Yes, absolutely.

While WDI went and set the bar really high in Tokyo, I bet Disney was actually hoping that it was kept a good secret and people wouldn't know how much good (read: expensive) stuff was over there...but more and more people are starting to realize it.

Well, I think 99.9% of Americans didn't even have a clue TDL existed in the 1980s as it was completely under the radar. Only in the 90s with the start of the Internet Era did it start getting attention ... but still it was basically only amongst the really big Disney fans.

Only in the last decade has Disney started to embrace (grudgingly in my opinion) the fact TDR exists.

I do think that has loads to do with the quality disparity between the parks Disney owns and operates and a pair of parks that Disney doesn't own one percent of.

I would be very hard-pressed to think of anything Disney does better than OLC except its ticket policies, restroom facilities, availaibility of Diet Coke and (believe it or not) merchandise.

Even now, I am still amazed at the quality level on display in TDL.

Take an attraction like Splash Mountain. Not only is it the best version in the world with added show scenes and AAs, but everything works. Literally everything. Looks like it opened yesterday. Last week, I rode Splash at MK just days after it reopened after a month-long rehab and while somethings looked noticeably better (final scene especially, Brer Rabbit actually hopping and fresh paint everywhere) there were still many effects that weren't working ... that's inexcusable. ... And old attractions like PoC and Peter Pan look like they opened yesterday, not 1983. Show quality is just amazing. There's no need to make excuses for management or point out things that aren't working because you will struggle to find any. The place is just that good.

And that's before you even step inside TDS, which is a masterpiece.

You'd never get that the same company that designed and built it also created DCA, DSP and HKDL.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I was blown away the first time I rode Hunny Hunt in Tokyo. The friends I was with got right back in line to do it again because our jaws were dropped open the entire time and we had to re-ride to actually feel like we'd done it.

I was interested to see in the latest exhibit installed a few weeks ago in DCA's Blue Sky Cellar Preview Center that Mermaid's design progression had a period in '07 where it would have used the Hunny Hunt ride system. The Under The Sea room would have been like the Heffalumps scene where the vehicles go randomly shooting through that scene in different directions. Around early '08, from the dates on the blueprints displayed, they landed on an Omnimover system for the ride instead of the GPS trackless vehicles.

I would still like to see that Hunny Hunt ride system show up somewhere in the American parks. But it would need a really good story that could play up the possibilities of that system. Pooh was a great story to use with it, but maybe there is something even better out there waiting?

I had the same reaction. Hunny Hunt was actually the first TDR attraction I did. Got there at 7:45 a.m. for an 8:30 opening (as a Night Spirit that shows how psyched I was to be there). Immediately got a FP and then in the 10-minue standby line.

I heard so many amazing things, but was still skeptical ... because it is after all ... Pooh. And it does follow the same basic storyline progression as the stateside rides. But having real AAs and tech turns it into something so different ... the ride system is just so much fun. And it has so much potential. But, hey, cheaper is better here because folks don't know any better.

I had heard it was briefly considered for Mermaid. Hopefully, it will go into HKDL's Mystic Manor as planned.

I'd love to see it stateside, but I have my doubts it will happen.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
We proposed using it in a reboot of TDL HM (an interior painting of it was in a HM issue of D23), and some other far reaching uses of the technology. We were asked to look at "Scream" the ride based on the Miramax films ( I know.). This was for something outside the berm. Of anything I worked on at WDI, I'm proudest of what we did with Pooh because it broke new ground in dark rides, which is a Disney staple. It's true, "Universe of Energy" is trackless too, but uses a wire in the floor for guidance. Pooh could have done that, but the vehicles spin and also run in reverse, so it is very dynamic. Future uses of that system will likely use a wire.

The ironic thing is that breakthrough came out of the restriction of not being able to invent. Oriental Land Company (TDR owners) did not want the risk of new ride technologies to be developed so we had to use systems that "existed" or had been tried. The Aquatopia ride system for TDS kind of "existed" as it had been developed, so I proposed that system, but used indoors. By the time we were done with Pooh we had abandoned the optical tracking from Aquatopia in favor of something that worked better for an interior ride (lasers don't go through walls!), so it ended up being an invention anyway. But had they not insisted on "existing" technology I would not have proposed combining a "dark ride and the free roaming Aquatopia". Being in the "creative box" does strange things to ya!
 
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