Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[stlbobby]

Staying at SSR, we had a 30+ wait for every park bus and DTD. Luckily we stayed in the Paddock building that was nearest the Congress Park stop and we just walked over to DTD. I don't know why, but SSR has to be one of the worst resorts when it comes to waiting for buses.

This was most likely just bad luck. I was at SS last week and never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus and had several waits of less than 5 minutes.

But if I had been consistently 5 or 10 minutes later or earlier, my waits would have been much longer.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, this may have discussed a bit already but I wanted to get your take on some of the things which happen after an attraction is built, making sure the atmosphere remains the same.

For example, both the current Journey into Imagination and Stitch's Great Escape feature small animatronic characters which are very realistic and are part of an attraction where we are supposed to believe what's happening (obviously). However when the guest walks outside, currently in Stitch's case and recently in Imagination's case, stood a MUCH larger "Stitch" and "Figment" which IMO ruins the illusion a bit.

(Of course, there used to be a regular size Figment when he was with Dreamfinder outside of the original attraction.)

Is that something that is ever passed through WDI, or is it entertainment who takes over those ideas?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the Disney Transportation system at Walt Disney World would greatly benefit by letting people know how long until the next bus. The technology exists, and it sounds like some of it has already be installed on the busses.

I also think there should be some thought given to more quickly loading and unloading passengers that require the use of a wheelchair. I have seen more than one bus stop full of people get testy as the bus driver loaded handicapped guests.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, this may have discussed a bit already but I wanted to get your take on some of the things which happen after an attraction is built, making sure the atmosphere remains the same.

For example, both the current Journey into Imagination and Stitch's Great Escape feature small animatronic characters which are very realistic and are part of an attraction where we are supposed to believe what's happening (obviously). However when the guest walks outside, currently in Stitch's case and recently in Imagination's case, stood a MUCH larger "Stitch" and "Figment" which IMO ruins the illusion a bit.

(Of course, there used to be a regular size Figment when he was with Dreamfinder outside of the original attraction.)

Is that something that is ever passed through WDI, or is it entertainment who takes over those ideas?

It seems like your question falls into the "too many Santa's" department.

In my day, when Entertainment and WDI were separate, there would be talk about what types of live entertainment support there may be for an attraction (Main Street discussions would be about piano players, character meet locations, etc) but you as the designer did not really have much if any control on what they did. Sometimes there were technical requirements to support them. You could certainly input to their ideas and discuss it.

As I recall in the Imagination case, in the old days Figment was in relative scale as he was a puppet in Dreamfinder's hands. I don't know what he is now. Mickey is of course, is gigantic as a walkaround and shown smaller in the "Partners statue" relative to Walt, and was even smaller in the old Mickey Mouse Revue. Go figure. Ratatouille is on a tray in the France pavilion at actual size, and as a walkaround he's mega. All in proximity. The company can be pretty inconsistent in this area for sure, but the guests are ok with the trade off if they can pose with them. You make a good point about breaking the spell.

Peeve alert- What I cannot stand is when marketing illustrators for the parks use the walkarounds as their source for the character design and ignore the original model sheets, so you have a human proportion mickey with a human body shape and lifeless zombie eyes.

BTW- For the record. The character in the ride is the "real" one, the rest of them outside are just imposters!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just stumbled upon this great post on a blog that I frequent:

http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2010/12/third-queue.html

Its about queue lines and theming... I know, I'm a few posts behind! But I thought I'd share.

Thanks. A good article for sure! Recommend.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Pimp my Bus! please.

It hasn't been done on a large scale before. I also wonder what the cost per mile would be compared to the monorail, along with the capacity per hour.

Peoplemovers or anything that requires a beamway or track will always be more costly than a bus that runs on existing roads. Boats tax the waterways as well.

Many posters have pointed out that the system needs to be tuned, technology could be intuitively used much better, the waiting could be masked by activity and the bus experience itself could be something fun (an attraction in itself) that would justify the wait.

BTW- I used to work as a creative consultant/designer on Mtv's "Pimp my Ride". You'd have to make something unique out of the most banal, thrashed cars and make the transformation worth watching for a half hour. Anything is possible, and if you took the attitude and "pimped" those busses out "Disney style" they could be something guests would chase after and beg to ride. They'd be collectible toys in themselves. Imagine Dad.."Hey honey, we rode on "Peter Panavision" it was awesome inside with all these screens! and pirate skull seats" Their kid says.."So what, we got on the Grim Grinning Coach with the purple lighting inside, we even had a ghost host driving!". Virgin America airlines does this well making the plane feel like a nightclub with magenta lighting and chill music as you board. They serve Absinthe in first class! They name the planes too like "Lady Penelope" with a pinup girl on the nose. It's just that no one sees these busses as anything beyond a bus when they could be a party or a show. They just make them a better bus. Virgin took a generic plane and made it a nightclub. Little or no imagination is used on the notion of transportation (TDR and Cruise ship busses are better, but still a bus). They don't have to be over the top either, just beyond expectation enough to make them alluring. They actually present a huge opportunity to be a famous part of your day, and it's a big link in the "chain" of your experience on the property. Make them special. You can even do a soothing "Fantasia" bus with mood lighting and classical music to match at the end of the day.

It would be nice to exceed expectation with a better experience. To me as a driver, the noise of the buses in traffic is totally obnoxious and that should be solved too. Here in Hollywood, they use open top double decker busses from London for sightseeing and people seem to like them alot. A combination of improvements could make the situation a bit better right away.

Having said that, give me a Peoplemover or a Monorail any day!

 

[flavious27]

Peoplemovers or anything that requires a beamway or track will always be more costly than a bus that runs on existing roads. Boats tax the waterways as well.

Many posters have pointed out that the system needs to be tuned, technology could be intuitively used much better, the waiting could be masked by activity and the bus experience itself could be something fun (an attraction in itself) that would justify the wait.

BTW- I used to work as a creative consultant/designer on Mtv's "Pimp my Ride". You'd have to make something unique out of the most banal, thrashed cars and make the transformation worth watching for a half hour. Anything is possible, and if you took the attitude and "pimped" those busses out "Disney style" they could be something guests would chase after and beg to ride. They'd be collectible toys in themselves. Imagine Dad.."Hey honey, we rode on "Peter Panavision" it was awesome inside with all these screens! and pirate skull seats" Their kid says.."So what, we got on the Grim Grinning Coach with the purple lighting inside, we even had a ghost host driving!". Virgin America airlines does this well making the plane feel like a nightclub with magenta lighting and chill music as you board. They serve Absinthe in first class! They name the planes too like "Lady Penelope" with a pinup girl on the nose. It's just that no one sees these busses as anything beyond a bus. Virgin took a generic plane and made it fun. Little or no imagination is used on the notion of transportation (TDR and Cruise ship busses are better). They don't have to be over the top either, just beyond expectation enough to reverse the pall of the waiting. No one seems to care and it's a big link in the chain of your experience on the property.

It would be nice to exceed expectation with a better experience. To me as a driver, the noise of the buses in traffic is totally obnoxious and that should be solved too. Here in Hollywood, they use open top double decker busses from London for sightseeing and people seem to like them alot. A combination of improvements could make the situation a bit better right away.

Having said that, give me a Peoplemover or a Monorail any day!

I know that you have heard the peoplemover that disney fans and guests alike want to see, the egg transportation system in the Incredibles. A direct copy would be impractical as even a ride inside the park. Now if the eggs were the size of half a monorail car, the spirit of the origins would be respected while being practical.

There was a mention of the theming of the quene area and how if there is no line, you miss alot. It could work the opposite way with the buses; with how crammed they get, guests will miss the themeing. I don't think that guests on a 10pm bus that is loaded to the gills want to hear another disney song. Now there is theming on the buses that is subtle and gets overlooked even though it is the same as one of the most popular attractions at the MK; the bus drivers on a non-packed bus sound like they their previous position was A Jungle Cruise Boat Guide.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I know that you have heard the peoplemover that disney fans and guests alike want to see, the egg transportation system in the Incredibles. A direct copy would be impractical as even a ride inside the park. Now if the eggs were the size of half a monorail car, the spirit of the origins would be respected while being practical.

There was a mention of the theming of the quene area and how if there is no line, you miss alot. It could work the opposite way with the buses; with how crammed they get, guests will miss the themeing. I don't think that guests on a 10pm bus that is loaded to the gills want to hear another disney song. Now there is theming on the buses that is subtle and gets overlooked even though it is the same as one of the most popular attractions at the MK; the bus drivers on a non-packed bus sound like they their previous position was A Jungle Cruise Boat Guide.

Virgin has the planes designed in a way that what they do is really cool but not too obtrusive. the same would be true of the busses, you can do a wild interior that is fun without assaulting the guests either. The "Fantasia" bus could be classical music with calm, magical lighting. That would soothe the savage beasts. Care should be given to how many seats you include and how packed the busses should be in the first place. I'm pretty claustrophobic so what you describe is kind of a non starter for me.

 

[flavious27]

Virgin has the planes designed in a way that what they do is really cool but not too obtrusive. the same would be true of the busses, you can do a wild interior that is fun without assaulting the guests either. The "Fantasia" bus could be classical music with calm, magical lighting. That would soothe the savage beasts. Care should be given to how many seats you include and how packed the busses should be in the first place. I'm pretty claustrophobic so what you describe is kind of a non starter for me.

well no matter how much disney would try to lessen the capacity of the buses, there is going to be that guy throwing his baby at you because their family of five with a stroller can't wait for the next bus.

Mood lighting would be nice, though every time I have been on a packed bus at night, there is always a sign of relief when the lights are turned off in the cabin.

 

[ChrisFL]

It seems like your question falls into the "too many Santa's" department.

In my day, when Entertainment and WDI were separate, there would be talk about what types of live entertainment support there may be for an attraction (Main Street discussions would be about piano players, character meet locations, etc) but you as the designer did not really have much if any control on what they did. Sometimes there were technical requirements to support them. You could certainly input to their ideas and discuss it.

As I recall in the Imagination case, in the old days Figment was in relative scale as he was a puppet in Dreamfinder's hands. I don't know what he is now. Mickey is of course, is gigantic as a walkaround and shown smaller in the "Partners statue" relative to Walt, and was even smaller in the old Mickey Mouse Revue. Go figure. Ratatouille is on a tray in the France pavilion at actual size, and as a walkaround he's mega. All in proximity. The company can be pretty inconsistent in this area for sure, but the guests are ok with the trade off if they can pose with them. You make a good point about breaking the spell.

Peeve alert- What I cannot stand is when marketing illustrators for the parks use the walkarounds as their source for the character design and ignore the original model sheets, so you have a human proportion mickey with a human body shape and lifeless zombie eyes.

BTW- For the record. The character in the ride is the "real" one, the rest of them outside are just imposters!

Well, the Partners statue gets away with it, I think, because Mickey Mouse was younger back then, he's grown up now.

Understood about the Mickey Mouse Revue though, I was lucky enough to catch it at Tokyo before it was closed to make room for PhilharMagic.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well, the Partners statue gets away with it, I think, because Mickey Mouse was younger back then, he's grown up now.

I never realized that Mickey physically "grew" up.:shrug: Does that mean now that he's older he'll slump and shrink? Love that thought. :ROFLOL:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

well no matter how much disney would try to lessen the capacity of the buses, there is going to be that guy throwing his baby at you because their family of five with a stroller can't wait for the next bus.

Mood lighting would be nice, though every time I have been on a packed bus at night, there is always a sign of relief when the lights are turned off in the cabin.

You would HAVE to have a soft "end of day" mode and an upbeat "start of day" mode for the on board programming. Main Street has both types of music on a timer in that the pace is so much slower at closing.

 

[dweezil78]

Hey Eddie! Got a question that I thought you might be able to answer in regards to attraction archives. I've asked around about this before and it sounds like the answer is a big fat NO, but do you know if Disney was wise enough to professionally film some of the dark ride attractions before they were completely demolished? For example, in the old souvenir videos, there were some great, well-lit shots of the classic EPCOT rides that just could not be accomplished by the average consumer camcorder and I always held on to hope that they filmed the entire attraction in the same way.

I've been told this was not the case sadly, but have to wonder why no one at Disney would feel the need to properly capture these rides (even if just for archival purposes) after so many hard working people spent years creating them. I'm also amazed that Disney would be so shortsighted to not realize that there'd be a market for these videos someday when all the kids who grew up with these attractions got older and became nostalgic to revisit them.

Please tell me that somewhere these videos exist in their entirety and we've only caught a glimpse at what's stashed away somewhere!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hey Eddie! Got a question that I thought you might be able to answer in regards to attraction archives. I've asked around about this before and it sounds like the answer is a big fat NO, but do you know if Disney was wise enough to professionally film some of the dark ride attractions before they were completely demolished? For example, in the old souvenir videos, there were some great, well-lit shots of the classic EPCOT rides that just could not be accomplished by the average consumer camcorder and I always held on to hope that they filmed the entire attraction in the same way.

I've been told this was not the case sadly, but have to wonder why no one at Disney would feel the need to properly capture these rides (even if just for archival purposes) after so many hard working people spent years creating them. I'm also amazed that Disney would be so shortsighted to not realize that there'd be a market for these videos someday when all the kids who grew up with these attractions got older and became nostalgic to revisit them.

Please tell me that somewhere these videos exist in their entirety and we've only caught a glimpse at what's stashed away somewhere!

The only place I could imagine them having decent footage of dark rides are outtakes from the Disney's WWOC TV shows or the movie "Disneyland USA". the light levels are so low in the black light rides (or projection dependent like ATIS) they probably decided not to even try and shoot them. My favorite inside views of the early dark rides are on 3D Viewmaster reels, as they had to light the rooms up a bit and you see all kinds of stuff.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Neverland and Michael Jackson

I thought it would be fun to wrap up the year with a look at the never built "Neverland" theme park of Michael Jackson, designed by Landmark Entertainment, (a former employer of mine). The pencil layouts depicting the aerial plan of the park were produced by a friend of mine, Jim Michaelson. Jim did all of those great "Cities of the Future" posters found in the arcades of DLP Main Street as well as many other murals, attraction posters and mural graphics there. I think his work set us apart. True talent for sure. Closer to home, he did the DL Steam Train, Jungle Cruise, and WDW Pirates Attraction Posters. The art for MJ's park is pretty stunning. Enjoy!

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/11/d-exclusive-michael-jacksons-peter-pans.html

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Home of the Future

I'm not sure if you have see this, but this is Monsanto's story of how the "1957 Home of the Future" got made and a tour. I was impressed by how far reaching and serious it was for that time. In the conversation about "Progress City" and future living it's noteworthy that they combined a Corporation, MIT and Disney to give the guest something with some credibility. Compared to the recent Microsoft effort, this is far more total. If you can get past the folly of some of the proposals, it is still a pretty radical and cool design. I could not help to think that by infusing so much plastic and the gradual off gassing into the home, that this pervasive evolution to plastics (that actually has happened) in everything we consume is a cause of cancer.

Ignorance is bliss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCCO3GKqWY

 

[raiden]

I'm not sure if you have see this, but this is Monsanto's story of how the "1957 Home of the Future" got made and a tour. I was impressed by how far reaching and serious it was for that time. In the conversation about "Progress City" and future living it's noteworthy that they combined a Corporation, MIT and Disney to give the guest something with some credibility. Compared to the recent Microsoft effort, this is far more total. If you can get past the folly of some of the proposals, it is still a pretty radical and cool design. I could not help to think that by infusing so much plastic and the gradual off gassing into the home, that this pervasive evolution to plastics (that actually has happened) in everything we consume is a cause of cancer.

Ignorance is bliss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCCO3GKqWY

Monsanto..a very nasty corporation....Funny to think they had sponsored Disney attractions..That would almost have been like Enron or Union Carbide being a sponsor today..

Glad these plastic homes were never built in the south. Im afraid they would have melted away..At best they would have turned cigarette stained yellow 80s appliances color.

What a interesting time...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Monsanto..a very nasty corporation....Funny to think they had sponsored Disney attractions..That would almost have been like Enron or Union Carbide being a sponsor today..

Glad these plastic homes were never built in the south. Im afraid they would have melted away..At best they would have turned cigarette stained yellow 80s appliances color.

What a interesting time...

Monsanto's "Miracles from Molecules" seem to be a nightmare.

http://www.rense.com/general34/monsan.htm

A good point is raised here. I posted a link to one of many "least liked corporations lists" and it's surprising how many of them (the lists differ) are/were at the parks over the years (GM, Delta, BofA, AT&T, Exxon etc). I guess you'll pay Disney a pretty penny when you are in image trouble.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/06/the-10-most-disliked-comp_n_526045.html#s78774

 

[FutureCEO]

My love of Epcot mostly stems from World Showcase. I love all the different countries (well, most of them). I think Disney has to go less to making attractions with their characters in it. I know its Disney but I don't believe The Living Seas should have been changed to Nemo and Friends. I think Disney should cough up the money when it comes to theme park development. They can spend $300 million on a horrid movie flop (lots of those) but not big money on a land or ride. Sure they might spend $100 million on an ok ride but why not make it right in the first place?

the monorail should be extended to all resorts and attractions. i know this would be wicked expensive and wicked tough to design and to place together but I believe it can be done. With the amount of gas, buses use and will use, amount of road repairs, it will be cost effective 20 or 30 years down the road.


Bottom line is Disney is a corporation and money comes first. So the future bottom line gets tossed out in favor of the balance sheet of today.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My love of Epcot mostly stems from World Showcase. I love all the different countries (well, most of them). I think Disney has to go less to making attractions with their characters in it. I know its Disney but I don't believe The Living Seas should have been changed to Nemo and Friends. I think Disney should cough up the money when it comes to theme park development. They can spend $300 million on a horrid movie flop (lots of those) but not big money on a land or ride. Sure they might spend $100 million on an ok ride but why not make it right in the first place?

the monorail should be extended to all resorts and attractions. i know this would be wicked expensive and wicked tough to design and to place together but I believe it can be done. With the amount of gas, buses use and will use, amount of road repairs, it will be cost effective 20 or 30 years down the road.

Bottom line is Disney is a corporation and money comes first. So the future bottom line gets tossed out in favor of the balance sheet of today.

I'm not sure (because I cannot see exit reviews from guests,) how much more popular the overlays of characters are in the pavilions. To a degree, these "cute-ifications" may dilute the whole EPCOT concept when too pervasive. They certainly do so in the case of an underwater base. The Disney Nature films tell sophisticated stories in a factual way without using characters, so it can be done. I liked the fact that Disney had different dimensions to it, some educational and sophisticated (True Life Adventures). This character move was a way to try and make the park more family friendly and may have been successful.

On the positive side, they have found that guests will pay more to stay in a monorail connected Resort. So there is hope.