Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

I have to admit that I agree. While they did a wonderful job creating a truly whimsical mansion, the craziness of such a concoction goes a bit too far. It's the same thing that happened to Tower of Terror -- the shape of the building, (being extra wide at the top), destroys its credibility.

Yeah. The later TOT "hammerhead shark or letter T" shaped iterations does defy any sane architectural conceit. It completely lacks any grace and does not do the forced perspective any favors. TDs tried to corbewl it and transition a bit more, but it still looks top heavy. When you spend that much on ornament, it's hard to imagine the shape was strictly budget driven. My favorite will always be the WDW version. The wow factor of the cab leaving the shaft was also a big deal to me. That element is sorely missed too.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

To me what throws off Mystic Manor is the business of the design (in typical Disney fashion where mere ornament has been equated to thematic detail) combined with the materials. It looks like a giant, overdone, plastic toy.

I get what you're saying, and I had the same first impression.

But I like the bigger photos on Miceage, http://micechat.com/18255-mystic-ma...y-of-hong-kong-disneylands-newest-attraction/, I think that the "jungle" backdrop to Mystic Manor (surrounding lush green hills), works with the colorful mansion, an old western type haunted mansion wouldn't work as well in Hong Kong, IMHO, you can see the lush backdrop here http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/park/hong-kong-disneyland/.

Though Mystic Manor is in its own sub-land, though I think this is basically the Adventureland HM they're been talking about. Plus, the tourists to Hong Kong may have different feelings about "ghosts" in a ride, and the attraction may be much different from current haunted mansions in that it involves a monkey, and maybe other whimsical elements.

One thing I think they got right with Mystic Manor right off the bat is that the house appears to be on a hill, which would afford a nice view of the river. I really like how Phantom Manor has a nice view of the river area in Paris.

From the description here, http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2012/07/whats-next-for-hong-kong-disneyland-all.html, this is definitely un-like any other haunted mansion, more fantasy, less ghouls. As there are so many different "rooms", I think this is why the outside architecture borrows from so many different influences, sort of telegraphing that the owner is the type of guy who would collect nordic antiques, but also egyptian and chinese and others.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think that the point about tropical backdrops is a good one, I like how Lucky Baldwin's home played that part in the TV show "Fantasy Island" and was quite quirky and exotic without being a riot of color. Not a Haunted House by any means. The Carson house in Eureka is similar but has more color applied, but still is not the "Painted Ladies" type thing you find in SF more recently.

 

[ChrisFL]

Yeah. The later TOT "hammerhead shark or letter T" shaped iterations does defy any sane architectural conceit. It completely lacks any grace and does not do the forced perspective any favors. TDs tried to corbewl it and transition a bit more, but it still looks top heavy. When you spend that much on ornament, it's hard to imagine the shape was strictly budget driven. My favorite will always be the WDW version. The wow factor of the cab leaving the shaft was also a big deal to me. That element is sorely missed too.

Agreed. I realize the shape is dictated by the ride mechanism in the newer versions, HOWEVER I don't think there's any reason (besides budget) they couldn't have made a wider facade going all the way down.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

This is a sketch left on my desk by the late, great Herb Ryman. I told him I had to go to a high level meeting and he told me to BYOB..."bring your barf bag". This was there upon my return. I love how he depicts his friends with feedbags to puke in as they hear the execs pontificate. To your point, Herb hated that corporate stuff.

There you go. Herbie got it.

This is the corporate pond scum that tends to infest creative environments. It's a particular mindset from non-creatives that's always been around since artists had patrons financially supporting them.

In the past, I feel as though creatives in Glendale had some kind of algaecide available to keep this infestation in check. I'm not sure what it was in the fifties and sixties, with the possible exception of Walt himself, keeping the sharp pencil boys headed up by Roy from doing too much damage to the creative vision. During the beginning of Eisner's reign, there seemed to be more willingness on the part of Wells to keep that pond scum at a minimum. I've heard Tony say more than once that Frank was more of a negotiator than dictator when it came to the purse strings.

But now? Who's the champion for Glendale? Lasseter? HA!! He's lucky if he can keep the Rotunda Bldg out of E-Ville's business. John has lost so much power since the acquisition, I'll be shocked if he renews his contract in 2016. His last son will be heading off to college before then, so why not enjoy the time that remains in other more satisfying endeavors?

There's a compelling argument for staying home and crafting wine instead of fighting off the pond scum that continues to spread throughout Disney with each new fiscal year.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Your insider knowledge, especially with dates and stuff like this never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

There's a compelling argument for staying home and crafting wine instead of fighting off the pond scum that continues to spread throughout Disney with each new fiscal year.

Call me in denial, but the "scum" has been funding some pretty big things lately. Without John those developments may not have been as extensive as they are, No? Not sure about how JL has lost power. You seem to have more insider access than I do, or is it because I still consult to the company and I don't ask the darker questions? Ignorance is Blissland. I agree that it's not all "scum and games", but love your insights.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not sure about how JL has lost power.

Marvel and Lucasfilm would be the two big reasons, I would think. Then there is the prevailing thought after Tangled and Wreck It Ralph that Walt Disney Animation Studios has been fixed (I'm not yet convinced they can work without Lasseter keeping an eye). His other duties have him away from Pixar a lot, showing their ability to work without him. So I think to the powers that be they think they can now do mostly well without him.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Marvel and Lucasfilm would be the two big reasons, I would think. Then there is the prevailing thought after Tangled and Wreck It Ralph that Walt Disney Animation Studios has been fixed (I'm not yet convinced they can work without Lasseter keeping an eye). His other duties have him away from Pixar a lot, showing their ability to work without him. So I think to the powers that be they think they can now do mostly well without him.

Don't forget that the Job's family still owns 7 percent of Disney. What disturbs me most about DriveBy's post was Burbank's desire to mess around with Pixar. That makes me very nervous.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Don't forget that the Job's family still owns 7 percent of Disney. What disturbs me most about DriveBy's post was Burbank's desire to mess around with Pixar. That makes me very nervous.

Yes, but even Steve Jobs never really exerted much influence on Disney.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Yes, but even Steve Jobs never really exerted much influence on Disney.

This is true, but 7 percent can hold a lot of sway if needed.

 

[Jeanine]

I truly miss the "Adventure through Inner Space" ride. It was one of my favorites as a kid. For those of you who never saw the attraction, here are some highlights you can check out.

I totally loved that ride. What's interesting to me now, is how much it was basically kind of a radio show, with Frees' narration really selling the whole thing. If I think back on it, I'm pretty sure I knew perfectly well that the snowflakes were Styrofoam, but that knowledge didn't seem to have any bearing on how completely believable I found it. For example, I used to try to memorize people's clothing while I was waiting in line, and then scrutinize the tiny figures traveling up the small part of the microscope to see if I could find them again...

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Wow. What a question.

There is a bit of "Apples and Oranges" when you decide to compare the two. Hench was a designer and we were all very much influenced by his approach to design and his color theory. Marty is a writer and creatively ran the place and he coached us one on one privately, like a School Principal or a guidance counselor. Marty wrote the Disneyland books that made me and others decide to do whatever it took to be Imagineers. His book was my inspiration, for example. I've read it 50 times at least. He wrote Walt's scripts and some of the quotes. He has the mentality, like Yoda.I don;t know how you value or measure that. Marty Sklar was the last word of approval on our work and saw pretty much everything, and so in that way he was a "filter", and a casting director (as he paired and assigned us our portfolios of work). He put us together and broke us apart. For instance, most of my career I was a "script doctor" or fixer of derailed projects and Marty would call me and assign me to get into a particular project, knowing that it needed to be re-cast or re-thought. DL Indiana Jones, TDL (when I was there) and Space are all results of that re "casting". He knew what we all did and moved us around across portfolios to make things happen. Marty was like Louis B. Mayer, he kept all of us "contract players" and our egos from growing too far beyond our own ears. He knew what Disney was and was not, and like Mayer knew the kinds of pictures we should be making. He also wrote tons of encouraging notes to us personally as he knew artists needed that. That is very much hidden from the outside and so it's really tough to say who had the bigger influence.

That makes sense. I never thought of Marty as a Louis B. Mayer type, but it's a good analogy.

If it's literally the design, then in a way Hench, as in many ways his approach became the ethic for the WED studio and that was supported by Marty. But other artists lent to that look too, like Ryman or Davis. I knew John, but did not have the day to day contact. There were two Henches, one early in the WED days and the other in the final years. Up until the other 1G guys left, Hench had the most political power post Walt and later Marty assumed that partnership with him. Later on as he aged, he mellowed and became a wonderful supporter. I knew him then and he was great to talk with and present to.

Interesting that Hench had the most political power after Walt died.

So you see that it's hard to say unless you look at it by era. If it's the organization, Marty had his fingers on all of it, good or bad and also molded our careers. Many of us still see Marty socially as he created a personal bond with each of us. I'd say long term overall Marty, but I worked with him more, but if you asked him, he'd probably say Hench.

Wow. Even Marty would say Hench had more influence.

BTW- I enjoyed the article you posted on the "Disney Fellows". Danny Hillis, one of those "fellows" became a close friend during that Disney gig. Incredible minds! All of those guys were great to chat with and Bran Ferren, the then head of R&D, had the office next door to me. We (concept studio) worked with his group to productize the inventions they were hatching. Always something insane going on too.

Ferren once told Eisner on a tour of the R&D facility that he was planning to develop a laser that could project a giant Mickey silhouette on the Moon, visible from Earth. Eisner looked around the executive group and said excitedly "Can we do that?". Ferren was joking, at least I think he was joking. Another time Disney President Mike Ovitz was hearing an audio demonstration and asked Ferren "just how expensive are these speakers?". Ferren cooly replied "oh I'd say....somewhere between astronomical and obscene". Love his wit.

LOL!

After Disney, Ferren and Hillis opened their own R&D business across the street from WDI called Applied Minds. Amazing place and doing 22nd Century stuff all day long. Danny Hillis recently hired me to consult with him on his 10,000 Year Clock, so I'm fortunate to get to work with him. Maybe I can be one of their fellows?

I didn't know AM was across the street from Imagineering.

And yes, you should be one of their fellows.

Thanks for the lengthy and thoughtful response!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Thank you for the tough question!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

In terms of political influence, John Lasseter is easily the most "powerful" person at WDI.

Yes, Lasseter seems like a down to earth, humble, sort of guy, but he has accumulated a lot of power. Going back hundreds of years to the age of nobility, up to the present day, the more managerial oversight one accumulates, the more powerful one becomes. Anybody who pays attention to politics, and even the running of a big company soon realizes that the powerful folks have themselves spread out over multiple committees, boards, etc.

You see it all the time when you look at CEOs who sit on multiple boards of multiple companies, have a myriad of responsibilities and can influence so much because they have their hands on so many levers. Lasseter has so much input into such a diverse number of projects, not so for some WDI execs who just live in the WDI pond.

I don't think Lasseter plotted it out to have this much power, but rather he possess a unique, and vital, skill set which allows him to take in the gestault of a project, be it Pixar, Animation, or a theme park attraction/land, eyeball it and come up with the important creative guidance to make it a success. Lasseter is obviously involved with Pixar, and he uses technology to keep an eyeball on certain projects. His position at WDI says it all: Principal Creative Advisor, the big picture guy.

I don't know how much they utilized Lasseter in the past, and WDI certainly has a ton of ongoing projects, but obviously success wins influence, even above and beyond what Lasseter has. Carsland is a monster success, and according to top brass it has influenced the trajectory of future projects, the Lasseter Paradigm is build it right the first time with a substantial enough budget to build something detailed and immersive like Carsland.

Folks may think Lasseter is spread to thin, but WDI projects crawl along at a glacial pace sometimes, and his most valuable asset doesn't involve monster amounts of time, but simply giving his overall impression and suggestions for improvement. For this reason, Lasseter is probably the less expendable of any of the company's employees.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

As evidence to Lasseter's attention to detail, the "Lasseter Look" is a spot in FLE at the train station where you can get a full view of the train coming into the train station.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...gdom-features-multiattractions-galore/1220463

Sure, some big Lucasfilm executives could decide they want to dabble with Imagineering, but I kinda doubt it. Lasseter is one of the few uber-successful Hollywood types who also has a love for the parks and wants to play a critical role at WDI.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

In terms of political influence, John Lasseter is easily the most "powerful" person at WDI.

That might have been the case, many years ago, for a brief period right after the acquisition. But that hasn't been the reality for many years.

Unless you know individuals on the inside who are high enough up the food chain to know what really goes on, then you're not going to understand how John's influence has been weakened. And there's a solid argument to be made that he never actually had much influence to begin with, outside the Pixar properties in the parks.

The so-called "Principle Creative Advisor" title is simply that, a title. It doesn't give John carte blanche to dictate how WDI manages their projects or sets their budgets. It's simply good PR for the investors who worry that Disney is falling off the rails in the park & resort business.

John does have slightly more influence than average regarding the Pixar properties in the parks, but not to the extent that you seem to believe. He's just another glorified creative consultant to Glendale. He obviously has far more pull at WDAS and Pixar. But his overall influence at WDI is minor.

Sure, some big Lucasfilm executives could decide they want to dabble with Imagineering, but I kinda doubt it. Lasseter is one of the few uber-successful Hollywood types who also has a love for the parks and wants to play a critical role at WDI.

This has been mostly hype on the part of Disney, in order to make investors comfortable with the insane sum that the Pixar acquisition cost them.

Sure, John loves the parks. So do Dr. Ed and Pete Docter. But you don't see them making major contributions to WDI projects, because that's not their primary roles within the company. Pete consulted on the Monsters, Inc attractions, and other Pixarians like Unkrich and Peterson have done similar consulting on their properties. And John will continue to do the same regarding the Pixar characters in the parks.

Lasseter simply isn't the second coming of John Hench. He never was, nor ever will be. That's corporate kool-aid you're drinking, and you need to step away from the jug.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Lasseter simply isn't the second coming of John Hench. He never was, nor ever will be. That's corporate kool-aid you're drinking, and you need to step away from the jug.

As you know, Disney had that team of people, then they left/were fired. JL's responsibility to WDI should be to advocate for the creatives within it and for quality. The problem is no one wants to fix WDI and JL doesn't have the skillset/time to do that.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

As you know, Disney had that team of people, then they left/were fired. JL's responsibility to WDI should be to advocate for the creatives within it and for quality. The problem is no one wants to fix WDI and JL doesn't have the skillset/time to do that.

Exactly!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Exactly!

Do you see any attempts going forward to fix WDI or will we have to wait for new management?