Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[yeti]

The result is it is one of the hardest attractions to get into at DHS while a relative breeze at DCA.

Mmmm....not quite....

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A key computer designer from back-when (the guy who standardized the byte as having 8 bits rather than six) has a book which talks about ALL design principles: http://www.amazon.com/Design-Essays-Computer-Scientist/dp/0201362988. One of his key ideas is that the crucial element to recognize is exactly WHAT is scarce (there's usually just one thing). The answer is not always money. On a beachfront home, space may be scarce. On a moon rocket, lightweight materials are scarce.

How does this play out in Imagineering theme park rides? Certainly real estate is frequently scarce (Splash, Mansion, Pirates, and Indy zoom outside Disneyland's berm for this reason), but the principle might apply for other things, too. I could argue that the Queen of Hearts restaurant in Tokyo Disneyland is so successful because it recognized a scarcity of 1) vibrant colors in that part of Fantasyland, and 2) character-driven restaurants in the Disney universe. Or is this kind of thinking off base?

No, not at all. Right on. Good observation and something I do in my process as well. I usually do the opposite of whatever everyone else is doing or exploring, which sometimes equates to scarcity. The scarce thing now is creating anything not bound to a pre-sold franchise!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I know I haven't been partaking in the conversation, but I thought I'd mention that our family just returned from a fine dinner at Rivera. To anyone who's ever in town-do stop by. First of all, outstanding service; I must give my regards to our waiter, Antonio- he was incredibly informative, offhandedly detailing the items on the menu, reciting bits of the restaurant's history, and was always exceptionally polite. Speaking of exceptional, the food is fantastic- we loved the diversity of having multiple menus available for the different rooms, it was a great thematic touch. I tried the "duck enfrigolada" as an entrée, and it was perfect-never thought duck would go so well with goat cheese!

I must also commend Mr. Sotto for the in-house design. The pre-dining lounge chairs were-like the style of the menus-highly inventive (and comfortable). We were seated in the "Sangre" room, where Antonio gave us the room's corresponding menu (the food in here was from Spain, I believe) and described the story behind the "tequila wall". Among the details, we especially got a kick out of the conquistador helmet-lamps!

The overall experience felt just like the work of an imagineer: smart, original, creative, and fun. And the food was phenomenal. Great stuff! Four thumbs way up! :wave:

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Don't touch that dial..Antonio is a fine waiter and an excellent example of "good show". John Sedlar is a world class chef, so it's a pleasure to be able to design with him in mind and the food is matched to the table surfaces. We chose a red marble to match his stenciled spices so it would be seamless. I'm thrilled that you enjoyed the experience and picked up on some the details. You mention the Conquistador helmet floor lamps. They are inspired by the copper derby hats that hung between the booths at "The Brown Derby", another LA institution.

The bronze "tequila tasting chairs" are supposed to continue the story from the mayan inspired bronze facade as well. They are the same "R" design as the facade only now you can drink from inside it. Next time you'll have to sit in the bar area to enjoy the video (halucination) that runs in the walls there. It's our mirage designed to match the tequila sipping experience.

The Sangre Room you sat in is inspired of a Mayan pyramid where you "sip the architecture" by removing crystal bricks of Tequila from the wall (members only lock and key).

Here's some images so the rest of you can see what we're talking about. Thanks for the great review. http://gallery.me.com/boss_angeles#gallery

 

[KevinYee]

The avatar (and brief discussion) of the Man from U.N.C.L.E. is making me remember that the Encounter restaurant always struck me as something from the 60s. At the risk of psychoanalyzing, can one draw a connection between the U.N.C.L.E. fascination as a child and the eventual Encounter building?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The avatar (and brief discussion) of the Man from U.N.C.L.E. is making me remember that the Encounter restaurant always struck me as something from the 60s. At the risk of psychoanalyzing, can one draw a connection between the U.N.C.L.E. fascination as a child and the eventual Encounter building?

COMPLETELY. I was a "spy" and "jet set" culture obsessed child of the late 60's and that was the whole motivation behind the emotional feel of Encounter. On the soundtrack from the restaurant (8 hours of music I selected) you will find remixed versions of all the 60's spy themes, Pan Am promotional music, etc as airports and the "Jet Age" informed so much of the swank intrigue of that time. Your life does inform your work.

 

[jt04]

No, not at all. Right on. Good observation and something I do in my process as well. I usually do the opposite of whatever everyone else is doing or exploring, which sometimes equates to scarcity. The scarce thing now is creating anything not bound to a pre-sold franchise!

This is Iger's modus operandi and I think in the future it will be viewed very positively. I really think it was necessary to take as much risk out of capital expenditures as possible. For all the good work of his predecessor, Iger faced very serious challanges to right the ship. I think this is why the so-called "walmarting" happened with merchandising and other "mass marketing" decisions. Most claim it is because of being beholden to stock holders but my take is that it goes much deeper than that. I think it was necessary financially to correct deficiencies in every department which they seem to have accomplished for the most part.

So the question is will they return to the what long time fans know they are capable of creatively as the company recovers. The panel that explained the new 'main street' for DCA did mention there would be characters but it really seems muted to me and not overly 'franchised'. That has me wondering if this is an indication of the future where adds are increasingly original creations that stand on their own such as Expedition Everest. I don't mind the franchising demands of Iger but it would be nice to see a mix of originality in the parks also.

What do you think of the new main street for DCA as showcased at D23? Does it bring back memories for what you wanted to do in Paris? I know the time frame is similar.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It looks very nice from what I can see. The franchise of course in this round is Walt himself. My only thought is that the architectural look still exists in abundance in LA today and I wonder how exotic or aspirational it will feel to the average guest. So that means that you want to really push the period aspects of it and make it as 20's as you can to give it the right feel. They didnt do much with the hollywood street there and it feels thin. I love the period, so Im easy, but the atmosphere will sell it if its richly dressed. I wish they did the Brown Derby.

 

[ChrisFL]

It looks very nice from what I can see. The franchise of course in this round is Walt himself. My only thought is that the architectural look still exists in abundance in LA today and I wonder how exotic or aspirational it will feel to the average guest. So that means that you want to really push the period aspects of it and make it as 20's as you can to give it the right feel. They didnt do much with the hollywood street there and it feels thin. I love the period, so Im easy, but the atmosphere will sell it if its richly dressed. I wish they did the Brown Derby.

Well that's the trouble with DCA overall, and something I just never understood from the opening of the park. DL is widely considered a locals park, yet to make a California themed park, inevitably they will run into themes that are not unique to the area.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well that's the trouble with DCA overall, and something I just never understood from the opening of the park. DL is widely considered a locals park, yet to make a California themed park, inevitably they will run into themes that are not unique to the area.

The way to overcome that is to romanticize California in a unique way that you have not seen before. It's ironic that the Spanish Colonial Revival architecture that we associate with Hollywood (and is there now) is a stylized and romantic version of what is in Spain. In 1915 the Pan American expo premiered this optimistic California version of Spanish in Balboa Park.

 

[HMF]

My only thought is that the architectural look still exists in abundance in LA today and I wonder how exotic or aspirational it will feel to the average guest. So that means that you want to really push the period aspects of it and make it as 20's as you can to give it the right feel. They didnt do much with the hollywood street there and it feels thin. I love the period, so Im easy, but the atmosphere will sell it if its richly dressed. I wish they did the Brown Derby.

Well this is the inevitable flaw in building something called Disney "California" Adventure in California especially in a locals driven resort.

 

[jt04]

It looks very nice from what I can see. The franchise of course in this round is Walt himself. My only thought is that the architectural look still exists in abundance in LA today and I wonder how exotic or aspirational it will feel to the average guest. So that means that you want to really push the period aspects of it and make it as 20's as you can to give it the right feel. They didnt do much with the hollywood street there and it feels thin. I love the period, so Im easy, but the atmosphere will sell it if its richly dressed. I wish they did the Brown Derby.

I am making assumptions here but it appears they really want to set BVS apart from any similarity to the Studios at WDW. It appears that was a high priority and would have made the Brown Derby an unlikely addition unfortunately. But with the emphasis on the Carthay it gives me hope that Graumanns will be reemphasized at DHS and the BAH is definitley going. They mentioned that the entries to both Disneyland and California Adventure will function as "bookends" and it seems as though the same may be said of the "main streets" of DCA and DHS. Setting DCA's 'opening act' apart from what exists at the Florida park had to be a major challange. So things like the red car trolly, the retro/futuristic monorail and other streetmosphere will be critical to counter the "thinner" style at DCA I think. I am rather impressed with the plan.

Ironic in a sense though that some of the content of the route 66 aspects of Carsland also borrows from the 1920's styles but is more 'Chicago' than 'L.A.' It is encouraging as all these aspects seem to be deliberately designed to tell a bigger story. They have my attention as to where they are going with all this.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I am making assumptions here but it appears they really want to set BVS apart from any similarity to the Studios at WDW. It appears that was a high priority and would have made the Brown Derby an unlikely addition unfortunately. But with the emphasis on the Carthay it gives me hope that Graumanns will be reemphasized at DHS and the BAH is definitley going. They mentioned that the entries to both Disneyland and California Adventure will function as "bookends" and it seems as though the same may be said of the "main streets" of DCA and DHS. Setting DCA's 'opening act' apart from what exists at the Florida park had to be a major challange. So things like the red car trolly, the retro/futuristic monorail and other streetmosphere will be critical to counter the "thinner" style at DCA I think. I am rather impressed with the plan.

Ironic in a sense though that some of the content of the route 66 aspects of Carsland also borrows from the 1920's styles but is more 'Chicago' than 'L.A.' It is encouraging as all these aspects seem to be deliberately designed to tell a bigger story. They have my attention as to where they are going with all this.

I think the DCA version will and is already setting itself apart, especially with the Red Line Trolley, etc. I pine for the Brown Derby as it is probably the most famous restaurant of that time to come out of LA. WDW or not, if I could go back in time to 20's LA and to a place Walt used to go and spot stars himself, it would be there. It serves their own theme very well and may even be more appreciated in LA, as it's a lost piece of our own history. Just something I'd wish for as it's a great experience in WDW.

 

[wedenterprises]

The best thing would be to re-create landmarks that no longer exist, and they have done this with the red trolley and carthay theater. If you're going to create LA in LA, you have to take people "away" to another time at the very least.

Their strategy with the rest of the area is taking pieces of existing architecture and creating a new frankenstein architecture. It might look interesting but I'm not sure if the average local guest will feel as swept away by it all.

Westcot would have been better. :drevil:

 

[ob1thx1138]

I think the DCA version will and is already setting itself apart, especially with the Red Line Trolley, etc. I pine for the Brown Derby as it is probably the most famous restaurant of that time to come out of LA. WDW or not, if I could go back in time to 20's LA and to a place Walt used to go and spot stars himself, it would be there. It serves their own theme very well and may even be more appreciated in LA, as it's a lost piece of our own history. Just something I'd wish for as it's a great experience in WDW.

The Brown Derby was a huge hit with my family. So much so that I was looking into going to the original if we ever made it out to DL and that is when I read the sad story about what happened to it.

 

[StageFrenzy]

I think the DCA version will and is already setting itself apart, especially with the Red Line Trolley, etc. I pine for the Brown Derby as it is probably the most famous restaurant of that time to come out of LA. WDW or not, if I could go back in time to 20's LA and to a place Walt used to go and spot stars himself, it would be there. It serves their own theme very well and may even be more appreciated in LA, as it's a lost piece of our own history. Just something I'd wish for as it's a great experience in WDW.

The execs here in Orlando seem to love third party restaurants Eddie. After Avalon I don't know how Anaheim feels about it, but maybe they are open to proposals? :drevil:

One hang up could be who owns the name in California, the three other Brown Derbys are in Florida and Paris.

 

[ob1thx1138]

The execs here in Orlando seem to love third party restaurants Eddie. After Avalon I don't know how Anaheim feels about it, but maybe they are open to proposals? :drevil:

One hang up could be who owns the name in California, the three other Brown Derbys are in Florida and Paris.

This is copied from wikipedia so take it as you will.

"The Brown Derby began its licensing program[1] in 1987 with an agreement with Walt Disney Company for a replica of the original Hollywood Brown Derby restaurant at the new Disney's Hollywood Studios in Orlando, Florida. In 1990, Walt Disney Company entered into three additional agreements for Euro-Disney, Tokyo Disney and Disneyland in Anaheim, California. In 1996, a ten-year agreement was entered into with MGM Grand Hotel and Casino Las Vegas, Nevada; in 1998, the MGM Grand Detroit, Michigan temporary facility was added."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Derby

 

[jt04]

Just a note...

through an error in the "quotation" function at some point, a comment above appears to be attributed to me but is actually something written by Mr Sotto. Just thought that should be noted so nobody is confused.

No back to the great thread....

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Aulani opens

Here's a pretty detailed photo essay on the New Aulani hotel in Hawaii. Just opened. Thoughts?

http://www.yesterland.com/disneykoolina20.html

For comparison, here's a comparable "wow" hotel on the Big Island (entry level $199. night). Aulani is considered to be high end (entry level room $450. per night).

http://www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com/

 

[RandySavage]

^ The central pool "valley", lobby, low lying details all look to be outstanding... A+. My criticism is that the guest towers are not on the same level (same criticism for Animal Kingdom Lodge) of execution - you can see the generic modern hotel building beneath the ornamental dressings. But here the wings are enormous, overwhelming the area (unlike the AKL).

On the other hand, the Wilderness Lodge hotel, with its similar layout, has guest wings that continue the architectural story of the resort with hardly any visible conceit to modern hotel requirements:

Of course, turn-of-the-century park lodges are an easier subject to adapt into a modern Disney resort as the originals were large and grand. Original Hawaiian architecture seemingly mandates low-level guest buildings (like the Polynesian). Even remaining oversized, I think a better job could have been done on the giant flanking towers, materials/architecture-wise (as could/should have been on the AKL's guest wings).

 

[Jeanine]

Here's one thing that I've never understood about Aulani: The way the buildings are angled, there seems to be only a narrow vertical strip of rooms on each one that actually faces the ocean--which are supposedly the Grand Villas. It would seem as though the ocean view would be a big deal for people staying in Hawaii--why would they construct it in such a way that the best virtually everyone will do, is sort of a slanted view of the ocean?

It looks like a beautiful resort, but the price feels high to me, even for Hawaii, when the Ihilani, which is the closest hotel to Aulani, starts around $350-400. I would think that its success would depend heavily on keeping their amenities (spa, excursions, etc.) exclusive to resort guests, and on providing a lot of transportation "Magical Express-style," so that people aren't tempted to get a car and wander around off-property on their own. Otherwise, I'm not sure how much of an advantage it would be to stay there, versus staying somewhere else cheaper, and running over there to play all day.

I heard at the Expo, that it boasts the only Imagineered spa in the world. What distinctive touches do we think are likely to be present there?

As a side note, I love the Hilton Waikoloa--it has its own monorail!