Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yet ECPOT and horizons was designed during one of the darker periods in terms of understanding what future space exploration and science fiction might be like. Gritty films like Alien, Blade Runner, etc weren't painting the optimistic view of the future that was seen in ECPOT. I don't see designs being constrained by things you mention...

Ray Bradbury's optimism was behind a lot of what we are fortunate to have in Epcot. Certainly, optimistic portrails of outer space like Star Trek, helped create this idea of a better Utopian-like future. Blader Runner opened in 1982 and Alien in 1979, kinda close to the opening of Epcot in 1982. Given the development process, which can take many years, it is not surprising that these films didn't heavily influence Epcot. I think it takes WDI years to figure out how to incorporate some new pop phenomenon into the parks, (or at least years to get the OK to go with something new) look at Star Tours 2.0 . . . for whatever reason, it opened long after the popularity of the last three Star Wars films had waned.

Of course, the Great Movie Ride has an Alien(s) sequence, and the Alien Encounter Ride sure wasn't utopian.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think there's a big challenge in conveying real science in any sort of depth. I work in nanotechnology, and even explaining to friends what it is that I do is extremely difficult, they tend to zone out or get lost quickly. Adventure through Inner Space was close, but superficial from a science level.

Also, there's the idea that you don't explain the science, but just what is achievable from it (this is what Horizons did). People don't always find it entertaining though, Horizons certainly had a hard time of it. The science-speak interests me, as was the optimistic "great, big beautiful tomorrow" message, but sometimes guests don't like it unless it is more adventurous or something.

Making an attraction that makes quantum physics entertaining...well, I guess that's why they pay you the big bucks!

Agree.

Adventures Through Inner Space was enjoying fun ride while reveling in the "pseudo-science", similar to those 1950's sci-fi films, like The Brain that Wouldn't Die, or others that are riffed on Mystery Science Theatre 3,000.

Though I think that narrative lessons from cultures with oral traditions could be used to improve attractions. For example, some stories told to children have a basic meaning, but as they grow older, they hear the story from different perspectives, sort of like peeling back an onion, you have layers of detail and understanding, making the story relevant to each generation.

I think Disney could build a ride which has different levels of meaning and understanding for guests of all ages and backgrounds. An attraction where kids get some mild thrills, as well as experiencing something that is visually interesting, where adults perhaps also get a layer of complexity above that, often times accomplished in other media by adding a layer of sarcasm/comedy that only the adults get, but which flies over the heads of the kids. Maybe such an attraction could be interactive, such as if you want to learn more about "buildings that grow" or molecules and atoms, you can use your iPhone to learn more about what the ride is showcasing. Or perhaps by putting it all out there, and letting guests absorb what they want.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Good points all. As you point out, it's all about what you do in any of these experiences that has to come first.

I think so, like any good story, you've got to have tension, or imagination, which drives the plot, at least for a good many Disney rides. Disney often accomplishes this by:

1. Something gone terribly wrong! On Star Tours we have a rookie pilot flying the wrong way, on Matterhorn we are attacked by a snow man, same thing on Everest, and on Indiana Jones as we almost hit a boulder, and on Mr. Toad we are driven by an amphibian with motor-mania, on Big Thunder the mine train is a "runaway" train, on Stitch experiment 626 has escaped, on Splash Mountain we are Br'er Rabbit running away from Br'er Fox and find ourselves flying into the briar patch, in Honey We Shrunk the Audience a horrible accident happens and the audience is shrunk down, during Muppets 3-D a canon is accidentally fired in the theatre, on the Great Movie something goes terribly wrong when a gangster takes control of the ride vehicle. Even on the new Star Tours, things go horribly wrong when in one version we are confronted by the Dark Lord of Sith himself during a routine customs inspection.

(Jim Hill mentions this "theme" in an article http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_c...go-horribly-wrong-at-a-disney-theme-park.aspx)

2. Malicious characters. On the Haunted Mansion, the ghost host is our guide, yet also perhaps leading us afoul. On Snow White, we are very much treading on the Evil Queen's territory, on Pirates we are surrounded by Pirates with little concern for our safety who fire canon balls over our heads (I think in the film Jurassic Park they mention the Pirates jumping into the boats and attacking the tourists when the ride breaks down), on Space Mountain the omnipresence of the darkness of outer space itself is our foe.

3. Film references, re-living classics. On Storybook Land canal boats, there is no obvious villain or accident, but rather a review of beloved fairy tales, similarly so for rides like Peter Pan, Monsters Inc, Casey Jr, the Little Mermaid, which are about experiencing something (a film) we always imagined as real.

4. Plain ole' ride, like Dumbo and the train around the park, the people mover, light thematic elements, the fun is just relaxing and enjoying the scenery.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think it was one from the Steve Harvey era, although I'm not sure where that comes in the Family Feud continuum. I just thought it was amazing that even the 100 people, who presumably (I don't really know how they get the answers from them) weren't under a big time constraint, picked Tower of Terror, and that perhaps the Rocket Jets were more memorable than the people who removed them thought.

I think that for Family Feud they do a telephone survey of 100 people. I always thought that they just setup in a mall somewhere, but they might get swamped with requests to go on the show.

 

[Jeanine]

D23 was fun. The panel was Tony Baxter,Tom Morris and myself. Tony focused on his past with Animator Claude Coats, Tom talked Marc Davis and I chimed in on Herb Ryman. We discussed those who taught and influenced us and the audience seemed to appreciate that very much. We did some online interviews afterward that covered many topics (technology, what we would do if we could, etc.), and this is the first time all three of us have ever been interviewed together. Worth a listen if you can find them. John Donaldson, the author of Herb Ryman's biography (http://incanio.com/about/index.html) was also in attendance and fun to chat with. A shout out to our dear thread poster "Jeanine" who came by to say hi! Met so many fun people and stuck around for the Dick Van show afterward. All in, it was an exciting evening (personally, a big highlight was getting to meet and chat with Dick Van ).

The panel was awesome! I really thought it was a highlight in an already pretty terrific schedule--I always vaguely wondered about all the nuns that showed up at the theme parks in the concept art, and to find out they were bopping around the world in a jeep was fantastic.

The interviews were great as well--most of the time it seemed as though we barely got more than a couple minutes with each panelist individually, so to have the three of you together for a longer discussion was much more dynamic. I was a little surprised to hear Tony say he didn't think big attractions not based on established franchises were that competitive in the marketplace, but I guess it depends on the individual idea.

Dick Van was fun and in such amazing shape, as was Marge Champion--did you get a chance to see the Alan Menken concert the next night? He was excellent as well.

Thanks for hanging around afterwards meeting and greeting--it was such a kick to see you guys together! Now all we need for next time, is for them to get Burke, Delaney, and Tietz too...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The panel was awesome! I really thought it was a highlight in an already pretty terrific schedule--I always vaguely wondered about all the nuns that showed up at the theme parks in the concept art, and to find out they were bopping around the world in a jeep was fantastic.

The interviews were great as well--most of the time it seemed as though we barely got more than a couple minutes with each panelist individually, so to have the three of you together for a longer discussion was much more dynamic. I was a little surprised to hear Tony say he didn't think big attractions not based on established franchises were that competitive in the marketplace, but I guess it depends on the individual idea.

Dick Van was fun and in such amazing shape, as was Marge Champion--did you get a chance to see the Alan Menken concert the next night? He was excellent as well.

Thanks for hanging around afterwards meeting and greeting--it was such a kick to see you guys together! Now all we need for next time, is for them to get Burke, Delaney, and Tietz too...

I remember seeing a lot of nuns in Epcot concept art, wonder what it was all about . . . guess I'll have to wait until this thing pops up on YouTube.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm more about showing than telling. If it's good, it's implied. I'd just have the grown buildings and not get into the how unless you wanted to find out. If you are in tomorrow, life just goes on normally in the future. Minority Report told us little of how any of it is done, but just shows us a new reality. Now we have most of it.

I could see them putting in a "grown building" in Avatarland as the blue people were hunter/gatherers I guess, but the knew a lot about plants. Unless they allow for the military/research structures on Disney's Pandora, everything will have to look organic in Avatarland I would guess.

I've seen architects talk about growing buildings by using fast growing trees woven around a certain shape.

Certainly, a lot of futuristic architecture is very organic in shape, much like plants, though such construction is difficult and expensive to build as working with 90 degree angles is easier.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was really impressed by this swimming pool that was marble inside with rectangular black lava rock paving stones for the decking around it. Super modern and clean looking. I loved the machined severity of the design with the organic porous surfaces. I guess that's how I imagine this grown building, from a distance it looks relatively normal, but up close it's incredibly organic.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I work in nanotechnology, and even explaining to friends what it is that I do is extremely difficult, they tend to zone out or get lost quickly.

One cool factoid about nano-particles is that they seem to explain why the "moon dust" that the Apollo astronauts encountered was able to float in the air, and why it stuck to everything, as electrical charge forces on very small particles are pretty significant in terms of movement of the particles. Of course, back during the moon landing, they probably had no idea that nano-particles existed.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The panel was awesome! I really thought it was a highlight in an already pretty terrific schedule--I always vaguely wondered about all the nuns that showed up at the theme parks in the concept art, and to find out they were bopping around the world in a jeep was fantastic.

The interviews were great as well--most of the time it seemed as though we barely got more than a couple minutes with each panelist individually, so to have the three of you together for a longer discussion was much more dynamic. I was a little surprised to hear Tony say he didn't think big attractions not based on established franchises were that competitive in the marketplace, but I guess it depends on the individual idea.

Dick Van was fun and in such amazing shape, as was Marge Champion--did you get a chance to see the Alan Menken concert the next night? He was excellent as well.

Thanks for hanging around afterwards meeting and greeting--it was such a kick to see you guys together! Now all we need for next time, is for them to get Burke, Delaney, and Tietz too...

It was very fun and I did not see anything the next day, but got to meet Marge Champion as she was chatting with Dick Van . Such nice people. Great to meet you as well! I hope we can do a 20th DLRP night at D23 and get some of the original team together. Who knows? Write in and ask them for a DLP thing.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

One cool factoid about nano-particles is that they seem to explain why the "moon dust" that the Apollo astronauts encountered was able to float in the air, and why it stuck to everything, as electrical charge forces on very small particles are pretty significant in terms of movement of the particles. Of course, back during the moon landing, they probably had no idea that nano-particles existed.

Love that! I thought it was dandruff.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I was really impressed by this swimming pool that was marble inside with rectangular black lava rock paving stones for the decking around it. Super modern and clean looking. I loved the machined severity of the design with the organic porous surfaces. I guess that's how I imagine this grown building, from a distance it looks relatively normal, but up close it's incredibly organic.

It appears that there is at least one technology which could produce something similar to what you want, it is called "Stone Spray", they spray probably a mixture of dirt/sand and probably some sort of binders onto rebar and use computer modeling to make it structurally sound. I guess you could make it whatever shape you want, and fill in the voids with whatever material.

http://www.designrulz.com/architect...-robotic-3d-printer-that-turns-sand-to-stone/

If WDI built a futuristic building that looked like that, plussed it with LED lights and maybe a few cool plants that would look way futuristic to my eyes!

Actually, if they filled in the voids with transparent stuff, you'd be able to get an interesting view of Tomorrowland from the inside, at least for part of the ride.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Love that! I thought it was dandruff.

LOL, guess Head & Shoulders was invented for astronauts, in addition to Tang!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

This is where I go weekly to search out new materials. I get inspired by looking a this stuff. Shhh.
http://transmaterial.net

 

[jt04]

Thanks! I have been wondering where I could get some new Jagorta. You just can't find that stuff anymore.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

There was one thing that seemed to amaze Tony Baxter in my brief talk about Herb Ryman. It was the funny parallel between the storyboards he did for an old Loretta Young movie ("Come to the Stable" 1949) featuring two French Nuns wandering New England, and the presence of those same seemingly out of place Nuns in New Orleans Square rendering a decade later! (Yes New Orleans has an old historic convent, I know.) Who can know if he dropped them in as an homage, as he used to do that quite a bit with friends, giving them "Cameo" roles.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

View attachment 28083 View attachment 28078View attachment 28079View attachment 28080View attachment 28081View attachment 28082 There was one thing that seemed to amaze Tony Baxter in my brief talk about Herb Ryman. It was the funny parallel between the storyboards he did for an old Loretta Young movie ("Come to the Stable" 1949) about two French Nuns wandering New England, and the presence of those same seemingly out of place Nuns in New Orleans Square rendering a decade later! (Yes New Orleans has an old historic convent, I know.) Who can know if he dropped them in as an homage, as he used to do that quite a bit with friends, giving them Cameos.

Sweet, thanks for story!

Here's some more nuns:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sweet, thanks for story!

Here's some more nuns:

More Nuns! Wow! I can't remember seeing this rendering and it is soooo 70's. The scale relationships of the people is pretty suspect. Used to have a clip art book of "extras" designed so that you would trace them for your crowd scenes and this looks like it came from that book. I like how the guy is carrying his kid. Imagine a day of that?

 

[RSoxNo1]

I've never seen that SSE concept art before, that's a pretty cool photo.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Interesting that that image of Spaceship Earth contains an odd set of monorails. The feature the "bubble top" of Disneyland's Mark I-III, but the one on the viewers right appears to have a paint scheme like the then existing Walt Disney World Mark IV monorails. It is harder to make out the scheme of the one in the rear, but it looks like the front has a solid color (Mark I-III) while the rest has the stripe (Mark IV).