Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

WRE does look nice but I honestly I want them to come up with something new. Everyone is thinking the same thing; Lone Ranger. I'm not completely dismissing the whole Oz thing. I would want to see plans first. Still sounds weird to me.

The "Lone Ranger" could rekindle interest in the west, but it's not a sure thing. Depp just bombed in "Dark Shadows", so his being in a film is not yet a guarantee of success. My bet would be that they would wait to see how LR does before green lighting anything. WRE seems too expensive and since it's not based on a franchise would probably not make the cut. Just my guess.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Documenting the creative process/making of
Hey Eddie,
About a year ago, I found this really fantastic BBC making of documentary on DLP's Space Mountain from 1995 called "Shoot for the Moon". (You might remember it because you were interviewed in it )

I do recall being in it, they shot us all at WDI, and they only used tiny bits of our interviews, but it was a well done show. I lost those glasses and wish I had them back!

 

[Mickey_777]

WRE seems too expensive and since it's not based on a franchise would probably not make the cut. Just my guess.

Eddie would you agree that it's safe to say, in terms of new attractions, Disney originals are dead? That every new attraction from here on out is going to be tied into a franchise? Can you see attractions like Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, or Small World ever being created again?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

What struck me about it was the statement made by one of the technicians. He mentioned that they were the last piano company to tune their pianos entirely by ear. The others use computers to ensure the tune and the remark was that they sounded artificially perfect. Like a synthesizer. Pianists equated the various Steinways to having their own "soul" and each unit having a personality in their sound and way they respond to your touch.

That's a really interesting story. Digitization and computerization help streamline industrial processes, but sometimes take out the artistry. I was going to buy some Beatles songs on iTunes, but perhaps due to the compression of the files, they didn't sound nearly as good as CDs of the same music.

There's a lot of heart and soul in stuff Imagineers build, but I kinda wonder if the whole "pre-visualization" process saps some of the creativity. Pre-vis helps, obviously, with placement of utilities and building a complex structure like expedition everest and the new Little Mermaid show building in Magic Kingdom.

But I can't help but feel that the whole Little Mermaid structure was constructed inside of a virtual world and plopped down inside of Fantasyland, with less regard for other structures being built in the area, such as the Be Our Guest Restaurant, due to pre-visualization.

Some of the pre-visualization backgrounds are pretty generic geometric representations of sight lines and other attractions, and I can help but feel that if they looked closely at the whole actual physical model of the Fantasyland Expansion they might have considered extending the great rock work around Be Our Guest to the Mermaid area for visual continuity, and made the entrance to Mermaid Prince Eric's ship or something else. I think it will be hard to have two very dinstinct rockwork constructions next to each other while avoiding clash which makes them both look fake. It's like having the Matterhorn next to the Cadillac Mountain range in Carsland, side to side they would detract from the reality they are trying to individually achieve.

Similarly, the pre-visualization of the Seven Dwarfs Mine coaster depicts the Mermaid show-building in the background in a vague form, but in real life it will draw the attention of the guests on the ride and could clash with the theme of the coaster and the Be our Guest restaurant.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The "Lone Ranger" could rekindle interest in the west, but it's not a sure thing. Depp just bombed in "Dark Shadows", so his being in a film is not yet a guarantee of success. My bet would be that they would wait to see how LR does before green lighting anything. WRE seems too expensive and since it's not based on a franchise would probably not make the cut. Just my guess.

I didn't mean to imply that WRE would be built as it was conceived in the 1970s. But that combining new boat ride technology (such as that being used for the new Pirates ride in Shanghai), with a western themed experience would be a great way to add a people eating expansion to Frontierland, as well as opening up crowd space if a similarly themed "plaza" was added. With movies like True Grit and other westerns which have been conservatively sprinkled into theaters over the past fifteen years, (often with Academy Award winning results), I think that the western theme is even more relevant today than the pirate theme.

When they were pitching the idea of Johnny Depp pirates movie to Disney, a lot in Hollywood felt that the whole pirate genre was finished. I think the lesson of pirates was that if a film is based on an older genre, and if it is done well, it can succeed.

I think that the Lone Ranger will have a lot of appeal for today's audiences as it won't replicate the stereotypes of past spaghetti westerns concerning Native Americans, and will have appeal for general audiences as the western part of the United States is booming and presumably this brings with it increased interest in the history of the Old West.

Frontierland doesn't have a lot of big attractions when compared to New Orleans Square, and there's not the storytelling that you have in other areas of the park, though the Mark Twain's narration provides some background to the land. Big Thunder certainly has thematic elements, but any specific story is lost on most guests, IMHO, so I think a western themed boat ride would work.

Plus, Pixar is coming out with a Dia de los muertos film. I always thought that this holiday could be incorporated into a western themed river ride in Disneyland, or expansion of Frontierland. Certainly, if they build a plaza with Mexican influence, it could be easily decorated for Halloween and/or Dia de los muertos. I've lived in Central America, and there is a lot of neat colonial style architecture around there which everyday reminded me of a blend of Adventureland and Frontierland. I think a blending of spanish colonial architecture and old westy Knott's style architecture (which no doubt occurred in the old west of california/southern arizona), would be quite a feat to pull off, but could really add something interesting to Frontierland.

Here's Antigua Guatemala where I lived, absolutely beautiful,

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie would you agree that it's safe to say, in terms of new attractions, Disney originals are dead? That every new attraction from here on out is going to be tied into a franchise? Can you see attractions like Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, or Small World ever being created again?

In the USA maybe, but in Asia there is quite a bit of new story going on especially in HKDL with the Mystic Manor and Grizzly Gulch. TDS took Tower of Terror in a new direction as well, so there are still places to innovate story.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I didn't mean to imply that WRE would be built as it was conceived in the 1970s. But that combining new boat ride technology (such as that being used for the new Pirates ride in Shanghai), with a western themed experience would be a great way to add a people eating expansion to Frontierland, as well as opening up crowd space if a similarly themed "plaza" was added. With movies like True Grit and other westerns which have been conservatively sprinkled into theaters over the past fifteen years, (often with Academy Award winning results), I think that the western theme is even more relevant today than the pirate theme.

When they were pitching the idea of Johnny Depp pirates movie to Disney, a lot in Hollywood felt that the whole pirate genre was finished. I think the lesson of pirates was that if a film is based on an older genre, and if it is done well, it can succeed.

I think that the Lone Ranger will have a lot of appeal for today's audiences as it won't replicate the stereotypes of past spaghetti westerns concerning Native Americans, and will have appeal for general audiences as the western part of the United States is booming and presumably this brings with it increased interest in the history of the Old West.

Frontierland doesn't have a lot of big attractions when compared to New Orleans Square, and there's not the storytelling that you have in other areas of the park, though the Mark Twain's narration provides some background to the land. Big Thunder certainly has thematic elements, but any specific story is lost on most guests, IMHO, so I think a western themed boat ride would work.

Plus, Pixar is coming out with a Dia de los muertos film. I always thought that this holiday could be incorporated into a western themed river ride in Disneyland, or expansion of Frontierland. Certainly, if they build a plaza with Mexican influence, it could be easily decorated for Halloween and/or Dia de los muertos. I've lived in Central America, and there is a lot of neat colonial style architecture around there which everyday reminded me of a blend of Adventureland and Frontierland. I think a blending of spanish colonial architecture and old westy Knott's style architecture (which no doubt occurred in the old west of california/southern arizona), would be quite a feat to pull off, but could really add something interesting to Frontierland.

Here's Antigua Guatemala where I lived, absolutely beautiful,

Interesting suggestions and Antiqua looks really pretty (yet screams piracy to me). I think the best chance that land will have is with the Pixar project, as they seem to bank on whatever Pixar does.

 

[HMF]

The "Lone Ranger" could rekindle interest in the west, but it's not a sure thing. Depp just bombed in "Dark Shadows", so his being in a film is not yet a guarantee of success. My bet would be that they would wait to see how LR does before green lighting anything. WRE seems too expensive and since it's not based on a franchise would probably not make the cut. Just my guess.

In hindsight the fact that the Pirates of the Caribbean Franchise is like a freak of nature. Logically, It shouldn't work, it's based on a (Brilliant) ride that has no firm storyline and somehow managed to be a hit. (discarding the Royce Matthew issue) Of course the downside has been people forgetting that the ride (Which is becoming more and more common and irritates me to no end) was first and the subsequent marginalization of the ride and the near-complete discarding of it's morality-tale aspect.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Interesting suggestions and Antiqua looks really pretty (yet screams piracy to me). I think the best chance that land will have is with the Pixar project, as they seem to bank on whatever Pixar does.

That's true, definitely same area of the world. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the spanish influence in the old west, like in the Mask of Zorro film that came out years ago. Given that El Zocalo is obviously influenced by Mexico, I figure it would be neat to expand a bit on this theme. If WDI could put in a lot of rockwork, in addition to traditional Knox-style wooden old-west buildings, that might firmly ground it in a specific place.

If you've ever visited Old Tucson, where I think some westerns were shot, they kind of blend a bit of the old colonial spanish style with classical old west, though the old colonial is mostly the church,

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The trailer for "Oz the Great and Powerful" is now online.



My first impressions:

1. The beginning is in black & white, very un-like the sepia and white look of the original film, makes it look more like Young Frankenstein and more cheesy, IMHO. I'm not a film buff, but even I know about the opening of the original Wizard of Oz being in sepia and white. Why the change?

2. Scenes with weather vanes going backwards and zero-gravity made to be awe-inspiring, such as the vistas of Oz. I think that while the original film was good looking, especially for the time, it succeeded due to the story and characters.

3. There are deadly looking critters, plus a very Tim Burton-esque look to the film. It looks almost too fantastical in my eye, more like Wonderland than like Oz. It might work, but the style is heavily influenced by Burton.

4. The Wicked Witch of the West, at the end we see a green hand that looks very CGI-ish scratch a table.

5. Very much like the original Wizard of Oz, we have a fish out of water story. Given that, the plot might be too similar to the original and be looked at as more of a stretched remake of the original.

 

[HMF]

The trailer for "Oz the Great and Powerful" is now online.



My first impressions:

1. The beginning is in black & white, very un-like the sepia and white look of the original film, makes it look more like Young Frankenstein and more cheesy, IMHO. I'm not a film buff, but even I know about the opening of the original Wizard of Oz being in sepia and white. Why the change?

2. Scenes with weather vanes going backwards and zero-gravity made to be awe-inspiring, such as the vistas of Oz. I think that while the original film was good looking, especially for the time, it succeeded due to the story and characters.

3. There are deadly looking critters, plus a very Tim Burton-esque look to the film. It looks almost too fantastical in my eye, more like Wonderland than like Oz. It might work, but the style is heavily influenced by Burton.

4. The Wicked Witch of the West, at the end we see a green hand that looks very CGI-ish scratch a table.

5. Very much like the original Wizard of Oz, we have a fish out of water story. Given that, the plot might be too similar to the original and be looked at as more of a stretched remake of the original.

Darn it. I was hoping Pink Floyd would re-unite to create the soundtrack. (Kidding)

 

[ChrisFL]

4. The Wicked Witch of the West, at the end we see a green hand that looks very CGI-ish scratch a table.

1990's CGI-ish at that, I think that may have been put in a bit too early, plus it sounds as you'd expect...horrific like nails on a chalkboard

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

1990's CGI-ish at that, I think that may have been put in a bit too early, plus it sounds as you'd expect...horrific like nails on a chalkboard

Yeah . . . doesn't look very convincing. Plus the wicked witch of the west's green tower (actually this might be the top of one of the emerald city's towers), doesn't look real either, has that early CGI sheen to it. Some of the CGI stuff looks good, some of it looks un-finished.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

They also debuted some footage of Lone Ranger at Comic Con, as sort of the finale to its presentation, and word was that it looked very good and that they saved the best for last and that the Lone Ranger stole the show.

It's not that James Franco is a bad actor, but that I think Oz needed somebody with a bit more screen gravitas to play the role, like Robert Downey Jr., someone who can easily slip into the role of huckster/rogue, but underneath the facade have these different motivations and forces driving him. Its hard for an actor as young as Franco to pull it off, IMHO.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I love movies that take you into another world. I hope it's great, the trailer looks really interesting, but does it feel a bit like a dimly lit collection of design elements we've seen in other movies? (Like Spiderwick Chronicles and Alice?) Seems a bit uninspired. Will wait till the next trailer.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I love movies that take you into another world. I hope it's great, the trailer looks really interesting, but does it feel a bit like a dimly lit collection of design elements we've seen in other movies? (Like Spiderwick Chronicles and Alice?) Seems a bit uninspired. Will wait till the next trailer.

Notwithstanding the future success of the film, it would be pretty easy to make it into an indoor ride. They could easily make black and white scenes (maybe they didn't do sepia tones for this film, as in the original Wizard of Oz for copyright purposes), where guests see the circus by painting these scenes just in shades of grey. And then get vacuumed up into a tornado, followed by the bright scenes of Oz, ending with a confrontation with the witch.

As the original film was made in technicolor, it seems that the makers of this film really made the colors pop out, such as the sky and sunrise in the trailer. Visually it looks good, but it doesn't have Alice where a lot of people came because they wanted to see Depp's Mad Hatter. Despite the Wizard of Oz being the titular character in the original film, we really don't get a sense much of who he was, other than a huckster, so nobody is waiting for a big actor to give his take on the Wizard of Oz.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It would make a good ride, especially if you were in a balloon. The only challenge with making these films into rides, is that the "worlds" and the animatronics can seldom live up what you saw in the movie. You are forced to have a large distance between the vehicle and the sets, and the AA figures are limited as well. I just ride Indiana Jones the other day and it was a shame to see so much of the show turned off. The ball was off (among other effects) and had been since my last visit. The AA of Ford was not as good as Depp was in Pirates, so there are risks to trying to pay off these CG extravaganzas (unless you do it Transformer style and use 3D).

 

[Californian Elitist]

just ride Indiana Jones the other day and it was a shame to see so much of the show turned off. The ball was off (among other effects) and had been since my last visit. The AA of Ford was not as good as Depp was in Pirates, so there are risks to trying to pay off these CG extravaganzas (unless you do it Transformer style and use 3D).

Seriously, I wish they would close Indy and refurb it already. Transformers is quickly becoming my favorite ride, it's millimeters to passing Indiana Jones.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, with all of Universal Orlando's expansions going on, there's been rumors they could try to build a third park.

If so, I've always wondered what a Lord of the Rings park would be like. I started a thread on the imagineering forum on this (not worrying whether its Disney or Universal who does it)

Obviously the scenery is going to be there,but I'd be more concerned about the "rides". Since the setting is a sort of medieval time, Middle Earth had very few methods of transport; boat, horseback, nazgul, eagle.

Do you have any thoughts on how you might develop some rides for that (if you're familiar with the books/movies)?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It would make a good ride, especially if you were in a balloon. The only challenge with making these films into rides, is that the "worlds" and the animatronics can seldom live up what you saw in the movie. You are forced to have a large distance between the vehicle and the sets, and the AA figures are limited as well. I just ride Indiana Jones the other day and it was a shame to see so much of the show turned off. The ball was off (among other effects) and had been since my last visit. The AA of Ford was not as good as Depp was in Pirates, so there are risks to trying to pay off these CG extravaganzas (unless you do it Transformer style and use 3D).

Wow! That's a thought, a hot air balloon for a ride vehicle, though it would be hard to pull off in terms of details, unless you had a Soarin' over Oz type ride, though that might work if you combined screens in addition to some real scenes. A fake bottom part of the balloon could hide ceiling mounted lights, a sight line problem on Mermaid.

After riding Monsters Inc., I also think that the amount of time you spend in a scene also degrades the perceived reality if the ride vehicle is too slow. The ride vehicles on Monsters Inc. go so slow that you can see how they did a lot of the effects, and you get bored waiting for the car to go to the next scene. Peter Pan's show scenes are a little better, but you really zip in and out of them, and you don't get bored. If they opened Peter Pan today, they'd probably slow down the pirate boats so that guests could get a closer look at the Darling's bedroom and all the wonderful details.

I think Pirates work well because the lights are turned down, and though the boat ride goes slow, you can't see everything and this allows your imagination to fill in the blanks, making the experience more real.

The Great Movie Ride in DHS has an Oz scene, pretty detailed actually considering that the Wicked Witch of the West is done well with what was an advanced animatronic. The scene works as they use a song from the film, they have the Wicked Witch of the West, and Dorothy and Friends, but of course, all of these would be missing from the Disney version given it would be based on the new film.