Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

The thing about construction versus automotive or another built product, is that in most cases you think of building it once and the place it originates in is the system that you work in. Contractors still use Imperial measured materials (2x4, 4x8 ply, etc.) so that's what you design to. Codes dictate a 42" rail height, etc. So you tend to not think in metric for a domestic project.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

People of DLP. Ron Esposito

One of the reasons DLP looked so good was the strategy of having a park wide Art Director that the land designers could work with to get the exterior finishes to all look right. This brought the whole park up to a high standard and we needed a specialist in scenic finishes. That person was Ron Esposito. Ron, like his predessor Bob Jolley (WED Scenic Artist from Fox Paint Dept,) had come from there from the Studios and understood scenic painting and faux finishes. Bob was no longer available but Tony recalled his value and needed someone with similar skills to give the park it's character. Ron could save us all with his endless techniques from film. He could magically get a new redwood barn to instantly look weathered, or to age plaster, turn concrete into red rocks on BTM, or even grow scenic mold on the Indiana Jones temple.

In France, he was faced with training everyday painters to be artists to tackle BTM and Adventure Island. Then there were rocks in Discoveryland that were supposed to be from Space. Lots to do and not a lot of time. In spite of a lack of days, bad weather, and a language barrier, Esposito taught them to use brooms to age and paint the rockwork and in doing so devised a system to get what he wanted with un artistic hands. What a feat. I love this guy! He had help as well, but Ron led an effort that made a huge difference in that park and in my land he brought the look to a level that made it special.

I had an interior that I just was not happy with on Main Street. I tried several colors on the Hat shop and it all looked pretty lame. Ron came in and suggested wood graining the white gingerbread fretwork. His world of possibility included making it all into mahogany! Never thought of that.
It came out great. Today it's painted over in white BTW, but back then it looked awesome. Ron and his crew aged many MSUSA interiors too and taught me how to think about glazing and color. What a great talent. He also worked on all the other Disney Parks since 1992, till he left the company several years ago and formed his own firm. Now you can have him do your place!

http://espoarte.com/espoarte.php

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Masdar or EPCOT?

We've discussed building the real EPCOT. I'm bringing it back for discussion.

Enter Masdar, the sustainable green city being built in the Middle East that has also been mentioned. I ran across a discussion on it on another site. What I find interesting is that Walt's idea was based on radial, open plans with an enclosed central core. Masdar is based on Arabian cities and their ancient grid plans which are smaller, denser, lower profile, parks are pocketed, and have narrow streets. Masdar responds with solar and modern pollution free transport (which was shown earlier on this thread too) and does the tasks Progress City was designed to do, but in a different setting altogether.

What do you think of the urban planning of Masdar? To me it's not as emotional, but PC could have also turned out that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyghLnbp20U&feature=player_embedded

 

[gustaftp]

This is going to be a bit ranty but this is one of the things that I hate about American Culture.We are so afraid of changing the status quo which is why we are not using things like the metric system and there is a cultural trend here where people think that sophistication and intelligence are things to be discouraged or "cured" and people with intelligence and have new ideas to improve the way we live are labelled as "Eliteist Progressives". We watch brainless entertainment like American Idol, Reality TV, Family Guy etc. We like to have things dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, for example The current Narration of Spaceship Earth at Epcot or the changing of the name of the first Harry Potter book from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone because book publishers think American Children do not know what a philosopher is, God forbid kids learn a new word.
Ignorance sure is bliss.

A majority of Americans didn't like metric. It was a massive flop. So we stopped trying to use it.

The only time I view something as elitist is when it's imposed upon people against their will. Or those folks like Barbra Streisand who tell people to hand-wash their dishes and hang-dry their clothes despite the fact that she does none of this herself... ("Shut up and sing!")

I, too, enjoy things that improve people's lives. But if The People don't want it, then it should (rightly) fall.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is going to be a bit ranty but this is one of the things that I hate about American Culture.We are so afraid of changing the status quo which is why we are not using things like the metric system and there is a cultural trend here where people think that sophistication and intelligence are things to be discouraged or "cured" and people with intelligence and have new ideas to improve the way we live are labelled as "Eliteist Progressives". We watch brainless entertainment like American Idol, Reality TV, Family Guy etc. We like to have things dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, for example The current Narration of Spaceship Earth at Epcot or the changing of the name of the first Harry Potter book from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone because book publishers think American Children do not know what a philosopher is, God forbid kids learn a new word.
Ignorance sure is bliss.

Ever watch the British version of Top Gear? They often use Imperial measures, particularly miles. Measuring systems are just a convention. Yes, the base ten nature gives the metric system a common uniformity, but I see nothing inherently superior about it. The Imperial measurement system is part of our culture and I think it continues to work just fine. If an American enters a field where metric is the norm he can become familiar with metric, which he likely already learned the basics of in school.

 

[Knothead]

We've discussed building the real EPCOT. I'm bringing it back for discussion.

Enter Masdar, the sustainable green city being built in the Middle East that has also been mentioned. I ran across a discussion on it on another site. What I find interesting is that Walt's idea was based on radial, open plans with an enclosed central core. Masdar is based on Arabian cities and their ancient grid plans which are smaller, denser, lower profile, parks are pocketed, and have narrow streets. Masdar responds with solar and modern pollution free transport (which was shown earlier on this thread too) and does the tasks Progress City was designed to do, but in a different setting altogether.

What do you think of the urban planning of Masdar? To me it's not as emotional, but PC could have also turned out that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyghLnbp20U&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for bringing this topic back to the discussion. Anyone who knows me personally knows how passionate I can be about EPCOT. I don't know much about MASDAR other than the basics, but it just doesn't ring bells like Progress City does with me. I'm not sure if its because its not near enough geographically for me to enjoy or what... What really drew me to EPCOT was the transportation concepts. Monorails and peoplemovers everywhere, cars separated from pedestrians, hub and spoke system, no traffic lights, all right-hand turns on most roads, etc. This plan was simply genius, and it really burns my buns when I see traffic issues and infrastructure problems at wdw, because a solution was provided over a half-century ago by the Boss-man himself.

To put a bunch of theme parks and hotels in place of this grand plan is a travesty that myself as an individual cannot forgive. EPCOT was a dying man's last dream, and if the "company" is going to continue __________________ on Walt's dream, they should at least take his name off the gates.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think part of the reason we see less emphasis on transit it urban planning is because there is less of a need. Right now we have been having a conversation across time zones. In the past we would either have rung up a massive phone bill or had to find a way to meet in person. The explosion of communications technology has reduced the need to get around.

 

[choco choco]

What do you think of the urban planning of Masdar? To me it's not as emotional, but PC could have also turned out that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyghLnbp20U&feature=player_embedded

Too sanitized, as I think all massive urban planning projects like this tend to be. Humans have a tendency to reject perfection (there's another idea from the Matrix for you). This one is worse, as it has such an "all-business" corporate feel to it (designed by Foster and Partners, one of those uber-firms). He has tried hard to give it variety so it doesn't look like a suburban blandness. When you have communities planned by one monolithic entity, it is hard to shake the creepy feeling you are being manipulated in how to live and losing yourself to that identity. You are being homogenized. Yuck.

Ikea is going into the urban planning business, interesting to see how that will turn out. I've always liked their cheerful boxes. IKEA urban planning

Also interesting, one of the best examples of urban planning is Haussmann's Paris, which somewhat homogenized Paris (although its real purpose was to subjugate the people of Paris easier in case of another uprising). How come that one is viewed so highly?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Too sanitized, as I think all massive urban planning projects like this tend to be. Humans have a tendency to reject perfection (there's another idea from the Matrix for you). This one is worse, as it has such an "all-business" corporate feel to it (designed by Foster and Partners, one of those uber-firms). He has tried hard to give it variety so it doesn't look like a suburban blandness. When you have communities planned by one monolithic entity, it is hard to shake the creepy feeling you are being manipulated in how to live and losing yourself to that identity. You are being homogenized. Yuck.

This is something I never understood about people's expectations for Tomorrowland. All of the other lands of the Magic Kingdom may share styles, but the goal is to create distinct entities that are supposed to be viewed as different from each other. Tomorrowland however, people expect one big unifying aesthetic.

Also interesting, one of the best examples of urban planning is Haussmann's Paris, which somewhat homogenized Paris (although its real purpose was to subjugate the people of Paris easier in case of another uprising). How come that one is viewed so highly?

That is an interesting question.

 

[Vernonpush]

Too sanitized, as I think all massive urban planning projects like this tend to be. Humans have a tendency to reject perfection (there's another idea from the Matrix for you). This one is worse, as it has such an "all-business" corporate feel to it (designed by Foster and Partners, one of those uber-firms). He has tried hard to give it variety so it doesn't look like a suburban blandness. When you have communities planned by one monolithic entity, it is hard to shake the creepy feeling you are being manipulated in how to live and losing yourself to that identity. You are being homogenized. Yuck.

How do you feel about Celebration, FL ? A planned community by one monolithic entity. I find it sanitized in an odd "home-spun" way. It has the same feeling as Seaside, FL (the location for Jim Carrey's movie "The Truman Show"). We visited Seaside a couple of years before the movie was made and we thought that the whole town had a 'Stepford Wives' feel. Sanitized quaintness.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I enjoy both those communities and find them absolutely successful for the they started out wanting to be.

 

[AEfx]

Ever watch the British version of Top Gear? They often use Imperial measures, particularly miles. Measuring systems are just a convention. Yes, the base ten nature gives the metric system a common uniformity, but I see nothing inherently superior about it. The Imperial measurement system is part of our culture and I think it continues to work just fine. If an American enters a field where metric is the norm he can become familiar with metric, which he likely already learned the basics of in school.

The point is, it just creates needless confusion. Even the Brits, one of the last holdouts, have largely shifted over to metric.

Not only does it make more sense (base 10, as you point out - not the less than logical nature of "feet", "yards", etc. in relation to each other), it is how the vast majority of the world works. It makes it difficult to read text made for an international audience (Wikipedia is a good example) and simply over complicates communication in a "global" era.

The reason it hasn't been adopted is the same reason we still have time zones. People don't like change. Time Zones have pretty much lived out their usefulness long ago, and countless millions (perhaps billions) of dollars wasted every year due to snafus regarding it (missed business opportunities, etc.) because it's such a complex system (particularly in the US, where local variances and such mean you have to consult a computer to really find out).
But people simply could not get their head around depending on when it's light/dark in your area, your "nighttime" could actually be between 0800 and 1600.

It's one of those things that isn't likely to change, but the reasons for such generally boil down to "I don't want change" or those delusional folks who utterly reject any system that is not US-based/centric as somehow a threat to our nation, because no one else could ever have a better idea or anything like that.

 

[ChrisFL]

I think part of the reason we see less emphasis on transit it urban planning is because there is less of a need. Right now we have been having a conversation across time zones. In the past we would either have rung up a massive phone bill or had to find a way to meet in person. The explosion of communications technology has reduced the need to get around.

While I agree to a point, I don't think we're quite as close to the idea of not needing transport.

However, I think that will change massively in the next 10-15 years, especially in manufacturing, where we will be able to locally "print" in 3D many of the products we use, and not have them made in China and shipped here, for example.

If it goes as I think it will, we're talking a massive paradigm shift.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The point is, it just creates needless confusion. Even the Brits, one of the last holdouts, have largely shifted over to metric.

Not only does it make more sense (base 10, as you point out - not the less than logical nature of "feet", "yards", etc. in relation to each other), it is how the vast majority of the world works. It makes it difficult to read text made for an international audience (Wikipedia is a good example) and simply over complicates communication in a "global" era.

The reason it hasn't been adopted is the same reason we still have time zones. People don't like change. Time Zones have pretty much lived out their usefulness long ago, and countless millions (perhaps billions) of dollars wasted every year due to snafus regarding it (missed business opportunities, etc.) because it's such a complex system (particularly in the US, where local variances and such mean you have to consult a computer to really find out).
But people simply could not get their head around depending on when it's light/dark in your area, your "nighttime" could actually be between 0800 and 1600.

It's one of those things that isn't likely to change, but the reasons for such generally boil down to "I don't want change" or those delusional folks who utterly reject any system that is not US-based/centric as somehow a threat to our nation, because no one else could ever have a better idea or anything like that.

Change is generational. Look at buying on the internet, reading a newspaper, or using an ATM. Some people have to feel the cash and go into the bank.

The other issue is that so much existing American architecture is built in the Imperial system that retrofitting perpetuates that system. Standard sizes are Imperial. A brick building has fixed doorways so you sell to the size of that opening. Building Codes are written in it. Today there are many products that are shown measured in both systems on their packaging as they are sold overseas and vice versa, so it's not as bad as some may think. That is a bit of a transition. The greater irony is that a "2 by 4" piece of wood is not even 2 by 4 inches!

Inroads are made when imported products only come in metric and we have to conform to it. Cars come to mind. I had to buy a metric tool kit to work on my car.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

While I agree to a point, I don't think we're quite as close to the idea of not needing transport.

However, I think that will change massively in the next 10-15 years, especially in manufacturing, where we will be able to locally "print" in 3D many of the products we use, and not have them made in China and shipped here, for example.

If it goes as I think it will, we're talking a massive paradigm shift.

That will be interesting to see if that can really happen. I work with lots of 3D printing operations and it is still in it's infancy, but there is room to improve.

 

[flynnibus]

It's a taboo topic that politicans just don't want the blood on their hands

We would be better off in the long haul, but its hard to justify and be the face of the bumps and bruises along the way. The return is too small in the near term to be politically attractive.

I just find it funny that the UK still use 'stones', etc

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's a taboo topic that politicans just don't want the blood on their hands

We would be better off in the long haul, but its hard to justify and be the face of the bumps and bruises along the way. The return is too small in the near term to be politically attractive.

I just find it funny that the UK still use 'stones', etc

It's also marketing as in the American Car industry.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...utomakers-refuse-to-give-it-up/1#.T75yLo5Mj8s

Usually there has to be a financial advantage to those kinds of changeovers. Daylight savings moved because it saved energy, etc. Private enterprise leads these kinds of changes as they globalize. Construction is still a relatively backward industry. Manufacturing is becoming computer driven with CNC machines and water jet materials, but we still build wood framed houses with sheetrock.

I love the map of the world of Metric vs Imperial!
http://www.science20.com/hammock_physicist/metric_vs_imperial_end_epic_battle

 

[Daannzzz]

The second half of this clip (please don't complain about the first half. You are warned.) contains so great shots of Carsland. On quick on in particular is pretty spectacular at 4:28. Even the tire ride looks a bit zippier...well so to speak... than in previous shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d0NNnSQJ0dk

 

[StageFrenzy]

While not flying, i think we are getting close to cars driving themselves. We already have cars that can park themselves and newer luxury cars have some spacial awareness technology. GPS is also pretty ubiquitous at this point *turn right here So its a matter of combining these into one seamless technology. Once we have automatic cars; insurance should drop, commute times would lessen, lower accident rate. I would be similar to a mass transit system but with the American desire to have independent movement and personal space.

 

[CBOMB]

I'll switch to metric when they pry my yard stick from my cold dead hands!:ROFLOL: