Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Bolna]

All those thoughts that go into details are amazing - but I think even if the normal visitor does not really notice it, that's for me what makes the difference between real theming and just nice decorations. Because everything fits together, you forget that it is not real.

One detail I have been wondering about: DLP's Main Street has paving with stones, not the poured concrete like the American Main Streets. And the refurbishment projects for the 20th actually extended this to parts of Fantasyland. I understand that this is actually easier to maintain with French winters - was that the reason for Main Street getting it from the beginning or was it a design choice? For me it makes the street look much more real as this what I would expect in a European old fashioned town. But I was wondering would the same town in the US had paving or maybe only a dirt road?

 

[DisneyMusician2]

My mother just flew over to Paris for the 20th, is spending a week, and then is taking the Queen Mary back to the states. She has been loving all of these stories, so thank you!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sunday Story from the 20th.

All those thoughts that go into details are amazing - but I think even if the normal visitor does not really notice it, that's for me what makes the difference between real theming and just nice decorations. Because everything fits together, you forget that it is not real.

One detail I have been wondering about: DLP's Main Street has paving with stones, not the poured concrete like the American Main Streets. And the refurbishment projects for the 20th actually extended this to parts of Fantasyland. I understand that this is actually easier to maintain with French winters - was that the reason for Main Street getting it from the beginning or was it a design choice? For me it makes the street look much more real as this what I would expect in a European old fashioned town. But I was wondering would the same town in the US had paving or maybe only a dirt road?

In reality you are right, Walt's hometown of Marceline, Missouri had dirt streets (pic attached), but many other small towns had paved ones.

Michael Eisner loved the idea of bricking the street as it reminded him of historic villages like Jamestown on the East Coast USA. I pulled out research books and looked at images of New York and Chicago among other places to see exactly the layout and direction that was most commonly used for the pavers. Do they lay end to end (soldiered) at the gutter? Do the bricks run with the street or crosswise? Etc. Lots to consider. Creatively, it seemed ironic that we were saying our land was "19th Century" and yet was asphalted, when Paris itself still had cobblestones that were recently being tarred. To a European, we thought that would be quite an obvious contradiction to what they knew as period. In Anaheim it's not such an issue.

The second point in the argument for brick pavers was that you have to sawcut and patch asphalt to replace broken pipes, etc. leaving a "scar". Pavers can be mortarless and removed easily and without patching. This brought Jim Cora, then head of Park Operations to our side of the argument and then it was funded. I wanted granite curbs, but got concrete and the quality of that product was so bad, it crumbled in many places even before opening.

Other details.

We did add small bronze "contractors plaques" to the sidewalks with Elias Disney's name on them (he was a contractor). We also had antique Manhole Covers that came from different American Cities to decorate the street. They may have come from the Smithsonian or some museum. I hear they have been removed over the years. They were very decorative. The idea is that if you were waiting for the parade on the curb, something is there to reward you and reinforce that you are still in another world.

I think the detail here differs from the purely "WDI insider" references some have cried fowl over is that these are drawn from American History and support the design in a different way as they work subtly for every guest, not just the Fanboi. We had both, as Elias Disney falls into the insider category. I'm not really a fan of "Hidden Mickey's" and some of those they have called out on DLP MSUSA in books were never intended to be so. We just wanted to make the street credible as a bit of a living museum.

 

[Jeanine]

We did add small bronze contractors plaques to the sidewalks with Walt's Dad's name on them (he was contractor). We also had antique Manhole Covers that came from different American Cities to decorate the street. They may have come from the Smithsonian or some museum. I hear they have been removed over the years. They were very decorative. The idea is that if you were waiting for the parade on the curb, something is there to reward you and reinforce that you are still in another world.

Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr

So pretty:

Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr


Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr


Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My mother just flew over to Paris for the 20th, is spending a week, and then is taking the Queen Mary back to the states. She has been loving all of these stories, so thank you!

More than welcome. I'm glad the park has survived this long to be able to discuss it!

Here's one just for her.

Tell her to look very close at the gaslight "keys" (they turn on and off the gas) on the wall sconces at Walt's (lower level lobby). Each one has the same Disney Initials crest found on the Railing of his apartment at New Orleans Square. On the lobby sofa you'll see them emblazoned there too.

UPDATE. I think they removed those sconces when they built Lilly's Boutique. That dining room went away. Sorry about that.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr

So pretty:

Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr


Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr


Main Street by JustJeanine, on Flickr

Thanks for the photo backup! Most appreciated! You can see how the concrete has crumbled around the little plaque. The quality of the sand is not as good as I'm used to here. Originally we wanted an impression to be made in the sidewalk with the name (as that is they way it's done here). In testing the idea, they could not get a legible image in the concrete so the plaque was the alternate solution.

The stained glass window is in the Emporium. It's faceted wood structure was inspired by one of the Vanderbilt Mansions and designed by Peter Kelly, then I personally drew leaded patterns of the glass designs and yes, those are "hidden mickeys" in the ironwork. Maureen Johnston (She is in the WDI video) and Linda Parker were matching colored glass to the concept art and that was the next step in the glass, before a vendor bid on the design package. I believe a company called Andy Thornton in England was finally hired to make the windows. We chose to honor American inventors instead of Political figures. ( i.e. Edison, Whitney, Tesla, Wright Bros., etc.). Those faces were drawn by Imagineer Han Lee as "engravings" and then flashed in maroon onto glass plates.

The chandelier in the tent was a found American antique for the Arabian Room of Walt's representing Adventureland. Finally, you see a gas lamp from the Arcade. They were made in England by a company that still specializes in Gas called Sugg Lighting. It's possible that the lamp itself was made elsewhere and the burner was from Sugg, not sure. There were many times that management wanted us to give up on Gas lighting as it was cheaper and easier to fake it. The skylights are also backlit and were designed to respond to the time of day.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Patent Award today!

At WDI I was involved in what eventually became the "Pal Mickey" program interactive toy, but our original non mickey design was developed differently. That is what the patent represents. It was a small toy (Simba) strapped to your wrist so you would raise it to speak into your ear to hear it. That was back in 1999. I just got a notice that the patent for that finally came through this week!

Here's the listing.

Disney Enterprises Assigned Patent

ALEXANDRIA, Va., April 21 -- Disney Enterprises, Burbank, Calif., has been assigned a patent (8,157,610) developed by four co-inventors for a "location-sensitive toy and method therefore." The co-inventors are Paul H. Dietz, Hopkinton, Mass., Edward A. Sotto III, Los Angeles, M. O. S. C. Jasba Simpson, Celebration, Fla., and Elise M. Fermier, McKinney, Texas.
The abstract of the patent published by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office states: "A small stuffed animal (10) is worn on the wrist of a user (14) and is held on via long arms featuring hook and loop fasteners. When the user wishes to activate the toy, the user places the animal's mouth close to the user's ear. A sensor (50) detects this action, and triggers one of many entertaining audio messages stored in the toy, thus creating the sensation of the animal whispering in the user's ear. In addition, the toy has a sensor (30) that can detect the presence of nearby location transmitters. This allows the toy to appropriately choose the audio messages to match the current location. Also, rather than waiting for the user to randomly discover the location driven messages, the toy alerts the user that it has an interesting message waiting."
The patent application was filed on April 11, 2000 (09/547,931). The full-text of the patent can be found at http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...8,157,610.PN.&OS=PN/8,157,610&RS=PN/8,157,610
Written by Shabnam Sheikh; edited by Jaya Anand.

 

[Ralphlaw]

we bought a Pal Mickey back in '03, and it was still working in 2010. IS there going to be another generation of the concept coming? Oh boy. We loved it, but my daughter was too young. Maybe now she'll get a chance to have something like it.

By the way, what part did you play in the concept and design?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Smart toy.

we bought a Pal Mickey back in '03, and it was still working in 2010. IS there going to be another generation of the concept coming? Oh boy. We loved it, but my daughter was too young. Maybe now she'll get a chance to have something like it.

By the way, what part did you play in the concept and design?

I was one of the inventors. The R&D group had a giant Aladdin Genie doll that was a "back buddy" and very large, but had eye and mouth moves. It was a cool invention. It was not yet practical to a guest. You can't take it on a ride. It needed IMO to be much smaller and not talking in open air. They had the technology but not the interface. My contribution is to make it more portable as a smaller version that did not "compete" with the park. The volume level that was needed to compete with high Db environment would have to be very high and that concerned me. Imagine being in a queue and having it go off all the time. I also thought that the mouth and eye moves only hurt it's reality. So this interface issue was more of where I got involved making the character speak in your ear and vibrate your wrist when there is a message. It's more real when you don't look at it's face and does not have to speak as loud and disrupt anyone. We produced demo packaging and even a first article toy in our Concept Studio. Paul Dietz and his R&D group worked with us to develop it as a smaller product. Later WDW got involved as a business unit and it became "Mickey" after I quit.

 

[Knothead]

Dang Eddie, is there anything you can't do? And why arent you CEO?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Dang Eddie, is there anything you can't do? And why arent you CEO?

Lots! My wife reminds me all the time. I guess I'm not CEO material, that's her job! :animwink:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

My mother just flew over to Paris for the 20th, is spending a week, and then is taking the Queen Mary back to the states. She has been loving all of these stories, so thank you!

Is it not retired in Long Beach?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is it not retired in Long Beach?

Queen Mary 2 is the Cunard Line's current flagship, which replaced Cunard's previous transatlantic liner, Queen Elizabeth 2.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Queen Mary 2 is the Cunard Line's current flagship, which replaced Cunard's previous transatlantic liner, Queen Elizabeth 2.

It's those "sequels" that will getcha, thanks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Passing the Starbuck

If you believe what you read in today's Miceage column, Starbucks is finally coming to Main Street USA and Disney Parks worldwide. It's a big press release.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al042412a.htm

"Just like on Buena Vista Street, period-specific versions of Starbucks logos will adorn the doorways and windows of the Carnation Café. For the Pig Café, Starbucks even agreed to use the more intricate 1971 version of their Norse Mermaid logo instead of the more streamlined modern version found at the 20,000 other Starbucks around the world."

I wonder when "ye' olde" Jamba Juice and Subway arrive? They could use their old 1982 logo to be period correct. http://www.logo-design-and-the-story-behind.com/images/subway-logo-old.jpg. McDonald's came and went. I wonder how the bigger sponsor Nestle (who serves Nescafe) feels about this?

Al Lutz has some info on DCA, Carsland and the WDW Fantasy Faire Princess thing. A good read today (although snippy at times). Don't be offended WDW fans.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Today's Story

The land DLP was built on had to be the worst piece of property you could imagine. It had been bean fields in the past and the soil was so fine that when it rained it turned into a muddy soup that would rise above your hightops. Cars would sink in it, and it was hard to wash off. Like melted soft serve. The winds would really race across the plain as well and it would get really cold. (I'm California born so anything to me is cold). In WWI, Marne Le Vallee was also an active battlefield. In fact, there is a museum not far from the site.

http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/katescarrott/1/1277858809/tpod.html
http://www.museedelagrandeguerre.eu/en

 

[trs518]

If you believe what you read in today's Miceage column, Starbucks is finally coming to Main Street USA and Disney Parks worldwide. It's a big press release.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al042412a.htm

"Just like on Buena Vista Street, period-specific versions of Starbucks logos will adorn the doorways and windows of the Carnation Café. For the Pig Café, Starbucks even agreed to use the more intricate 1971 version of their Norse Mermaid logo instead of the more streamlined modern version found at the 20,000 other Starbucks around the world."

I wonder when "ye' olde" Jamba Juice and Subway arrive? They could use their old 1982 logo to be period correct. http://www.logo-design-and-the-story-behind.com/images/subway-logo-old.jpg. McDonald's came and went. I wonder how the bigger sponsor Nestle (who serves Nescafe) feels about this?

Al Lutz has some info on DCA, Carsland and the WDW Fantasy Faire Princess thing. A good read today (although snippy at times). Don't be offended WDW fans.

As long as it doesn't deviate from theming, it's a good idea. It's what people want and they're working with some of the best to improve their offering.

 

[Bolna]

Congrats on your patent! I work in a field that sometimes has to deal with patents and inventors and I know how much trouble it can be to granted one!

Thank you very much for the explanation about the "contractor plaques". I had seen them in the past and wondered about them. It is a shame that you did not get the granite curbs, they would have added a lot in my opinion. However, I think the issue of the concrete crumbling might be more due to frost in the winter than the actual quality of it? But it seems that after 20 years they have found out that paving stones are much better from an operational perspective as they did not only pave the whole parade route, but also I think most of the walkways between DLP and WDS over the last year or so.

One question: How much did you have an influence on what kind of food the different restaurant locations would serve? I think I remember pickles being sold at the Market House Deli when I was there in 1995. And I have a full set of all the Euro Disney guide books that came out in Germany in 1992 and they mention all these interesting foods being served at different restaurants. Now the Victoria's Home-Style Restaurant serves pizza (to be fair a few other places still have interesting theme appropriate food like Hakuna Matata in Adventureland).

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you believe what you read in today's Miceage column, Starbucks is finally coming to Main Street USA and Disney Parks worldwide. It's a big press release.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al042412a.htm

"Just like on Buena Vista Street, period-specific versions of Starbucks logos will adorn the doorways and windows of the Carnation Café. For the Pig Café, Starbucks even agreed to use the more intricate 1971 version of their Norse Mermaid logo instead of the more streamlined modern version found at the 20,000 other Starbucks around the world."

I wonder when "ye' olde" Jamba Juice and Subway arrive? They could use their old 1982 logo to be period correct. http://www.logo-design-and-the-story-behind.com/images/subway-logo-old.jpg. McDonald's came and went. I wonder how the bigger sponsor Nestle (who serves Nescafe) feels about this?

Al Lutz has some info on DCA, Carsland and the WDW Fantasy Faire Princess thing. A good read today (although snippy at times). Don't be offended WDW fans.

What I find most disappointing about Starbucks is that in prior discussions on the matter I have read far too many comments claiming that Coca-Cola is just as inappropriate for the time period of Main Street, USA. On Buena Vista Street, I am not sure I would consider Starbucks too big of a break with theme. To me Buena Vista Street is looking more like a tribute that still exists in this world than existing in its own world.

I also learned today that "ye" was originally pronounced "the."

 

[Eddie Sotto]

As long as it doesn't deviate from theming, it's a good idea. It's what people want and they're working with some of the best to improve their offering.

It will be packed from open till close, a photo op, a huge hit with guests for sure, it's an improvement in quality of their coffee and that's great. I'll buy their coffee too as I'm a Starbucks fan, but to me Starbucks symbolizes the homogenization of cities and emerged as a recent brand unlike Coca Cola and Kodak. No matter how much you theme it, it's iconic. Like putting a McDonald's in the Sahara on an Oasis. The symbolism is bigger than the product, "it's everywhere". You cannot escape today's urban world even if you pay admission. I know and agree that guests will love it. They don't care. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just want to escape to another world and have unique experiences.