Duplicate Animatronics/Figures in Little Mermaid

[Californian Elitist]

What bothers me is that people don't criticize attractions that rightly deserve this level of criticism, mainly Peter Pan's Flight. Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid is 3x the ride that Peter Pan's Flight is, yet no one dares to criticize Peter Pan's Flight because it's a classic.

What's wrong with Pan at MK? I'm not defending it or anything, I've never ridden it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

What's wrong with Pan at MK? I'm not defending it or anything, I've never ridden it.

I'll preface this by saying this is just my opinion: I think it looks incredible dated and all of the moving parts really show their age. It's a primitive dark ride and the only novelty is the ride vehicles (which admittedly is a pretty substantial novelty).
It is the single most popular attraction in Fantasyland and I think it's in desperate need of enhancement.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'll preface this by saying this is just my opinion: I think it looks incredible dated and all of the moving parts really show their age. It's a primitive dark ride and the only novelty is the ride vehicles (which admittedly is a pretty substantial novelty).
It is the single most popular attraction in Fantasyland and I think it's in desperate need of enhancement.

Oh ok, I see. Maybe a refurb will come when it gets closer to the 50th?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

What bothers me is that people don't criticize attractions that rightly deserve this level of criticism, mainly Peter Pan's Flight. Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid is 3x the ride that Peter Pan's Flight is, yet no one dares to criticize Peter Pan's Flight because it's a classic.

Speaking from the DLR perspective, I love Disneyland's Peter Pan, it hits all the right notes, it has a good story, that "magical" element, and routinely has a 30 minute wait. I love the queue too.

DCA's Little Mermaid has a ten minute wait and is often a walk-on with the last couple scenes unfinished and underfunded.

I don't defend Peter Pan (at least the version in Disneyland) as it is a great ride. New tech would make it better, but it is very re-rideable. I wouldn't wait more than five minutes for Mermaid in DCA. Yeah, it has 2-3 good animatronics, but the rest of it is very uninspired.

 

[Skibum1970]

I have watched the YouTube videos of Little Mermaid and it looks nice. Yeah, a better finish (more drawn-out with another scene) would be nice but the ride looks fun. Speaking of horrible animatronics, I despise the carny-style pop-up figures in the Haunted Mansion's graveyard scene. Everything else looks like it should but those garish pop-ups don't fit in. So, each ride has animatronics or figures that are less than ideal. Still, the overall tale of the Little Mermaid comes through. Plus, even if it is a walk-on or short wait, I will gladly stand in a short line to ride it.

Of course, this is all without having even ridden it yet. I think that the queue and ride together will create better overall experience than DCa's version.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Speaking from the DLR perspective, I love Disneyland's Peter Pan, it hits all the right notes, it has a good story, that "magical" element, and routinely has a 30 minute wait. I love the queue too.

DCA's Little Mermaid has a ten minute wait and is often a walk-on with the last couple scenes unfinished and underfunded.

I don't defend Peter Pan (at least the version in Disneyland) as it is a great ride. New tech would make it better, but it is very re-rideable. I wouldn't wait more than five minutes for Mermaid in DCA. Yeah, it has 2-3 good animatronics, but the rest of it is very uninspired.

The criticisms on the ending for Little Mermaid may be valid, but only because it attempts to tell the story of the movie in a 5 minute ride. No other Fantasyland dark ride accomplishes the same number of story elements that Little Mermaid accomplishes. If you're going to criticize the animatronics in Little Mermaid then any more primitive animatronic should be criticized as well. To say that it has 2-3 good animatronics isn't really fair. Even if you don't like the Ariel and Eric animatronics (legitimate complaint, but they're still much better than anything in Peter Pan's Flight), there's the multiple (2 or 3, I don't recall) Sebastian Animatronics, the two Scuttle animatronics, Ursula, Flotsam and Jetsam. To me, while I would like it to be even grander, the "Under the Sea" scene is the best scene in any Fantasyland dark ride on either coast.

It's not Haunted Mansion, it's not Pirates of the Caribbean, but I don't know anyone that truly believed that was the intent.

Furthermore, to quote wait times of Mermaid in comparison to any other Fantasyland dark ride is silly. It has close to twice MK's Peter Pan's capacity, and more than twice the capacity of any of the Disneyland dark rides.

 

[dreamfinder]

Furthermore, to quote wait times of Mermaid in comparison to any other Fantasyland dark ride is silly. It has close to twice MK's Peter Pan's capacity, and more than twice the capacity of any of the Disneyland dark rides.

Not to mention that all DCA guests seem to be stuck in Carsland right now, with a few being able to venture out to Buena Vista Street. Now that DCA is getting crowds, it will be interesting to see how Mermaid holds up. I'd wager it handles the crowds on par with PoTC and HM.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Not to mention that all DCA guests seem to be stuck in Carsland right now, with a few being able to venture out to Buena Vista Street. Now that DCA is getting crowds, it will be interesting to see how Mermaid holds up. I'd wager it handles the crowds on par with PoTC and HM.

Mermaid isn't going to get long waits unless it's a really crowded day. My preference for a land like Carsland or World of Avatar is that they would build the E-ticket ride and then the additional high capacity D-ticket like Mermaid. I personally think that's a much stronger approach than the E-ticket and two B/C's

 

[Skibum1970]

Mermaid isn't going to get long waits unless it's a really crowded day. My preference for a land like Carsland or World of Avatar is that they would build the E-ticket ride and then the additional high capacity D-ticket like Mermaid. I personally think that's a much stronger approach than the E-ticket and two B/C's

Exactly. Mermaid processes around 2,000 PPH which is a lot of riders. A standard coaster, with a 2 1/2 minute ride, typically only does around 1,600 at peak capacity with perfect load/unloads. Racers does around 1,500 and has two hour waits (from what I've read). The other two rides have very low capacity rates (Luigis is 500 and Maters is 800 at peak) and thus don't provide a lot of relief. If either ride had capacity like Mermaid, CarsLand could process nearly 4,000 people per hour instead of 3,000.

 

[JustInTime]

I think it makes sense to just make duplicates...I mean, we are talking about fish here. Most fish look the same anyway.

 

[flynnibus]

Not really, MK's LM will get a much better queue, and Disney obviously knows that DCA's LM is not the success they hoped for, otherwise they wouldn't have made all of the changes.

They make changes because.. they sometimes aren't happy with the outcome - regardless of popularity. In no way do they think replacing the hair of an figure is going to somehow boost a ride's attendance.

The ride serves it's purpose in DCA - a massive people eater tied to Disney character/warmth that gives more family entertainment options.

There are plenty of rumors that MK's LM will get a better ending scenes, the "Ursula Exploding" cardboard cut-out, Ariel gets her voice, and the Kiss the Girl scene aren't up to standards. The finale . . . is kinda weird and needs to be fixed.

Rumors? Or just chatter that people eventually distort to 'rumors'? I wouldn't expect anything different in the show scenes themselves.

Maybe somebody at Disney will read this and realize that with the internet, fans can dissect and analyze underperforming rides, and that we'll be on the look-out for duplicates and poorly done scenes.

Or maybe someone at Disney will read this and laugh over how 'experts' critique their work with no real insight into how/why and with no actual credibility...

 

[flynnibus]

I'll preface this by saying this is just my opinion: I think it looks incredible dated and all of the moving parts really show their age. It's a primitive dark ride and the only novelty is the ride vehicles (which admittedly is a pretty substantial novelty).
It is the single most popular attraction in Fantasyland and I think it's in desperate need of enhancement.

Want dated? Compare DL's Peter Pan London scene to the one in MK.

The show is a classic black light ride combined with unique 'flying' vehicles that move you through the sets. I think that's pretty cool and would take that any day over sets that have moving pieces just to say they are more modern yet fail on the emotion hooks.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

They make changes because.. they sometimes aren't happy with the outcome - regardless of popularity. In no way do they think replacing the hair of an figure is going to somehow boost a ride's attendance.
The ride serves it's purpose in DCA.

The changes to LM were made due to guest comments about the attraction. People commented that Ariel's hair look like a soft-serve ice cream cone, and didn't get it that it was inspired from a scene from the movie, and people didn't like the animation on the screens, among other things. Imagineers had months and months to ride the ride themselves in private and make changes, they posted online videos of the making of Ariel's hair.

Monsters Inc. didn't serve its purpose as it was expected that it would really bost attendance in the park.

Mermaid has about a ten minute wait, on average, on some days, which means that some of the time the clamshells aren't all being used, with some circling empty through the ride. I have seen this myself. Carsland is a themed area, and it boosted attendance, Mermaid replaced a horrible attraction with a mediocre attraction and didn't lead to a boost in attendance.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Want dated? Compare DL's Peter Pan London scene to the one in MK.

The show is a classic black light ride combined with unique 'flying' vehicles that move you through the sets. I think that's pretty cool and would take that any day over sets that have moving pieces just to say they are more modern yet fail on the emotion hooks.

Exactly, the omni-movers are decades old technology which wouldn't work well for most dark ride as you can't see all around you and in the "white light" of Mermaid, it feels claustrophobic. Toad, Snow White, Peter Pan, all give you the feel of being out in the open, and you can look around and enjoy the scenes.

Omnimover works in Haunted Mansion as most of the stuff is pretty dark and the "shell" of the omnimover isn't as noticeable.

They could have designed a unique ride system config which loads quickly, yet offers unique ride vehicles, but they just "phoned it in" with Mermaid by:

1. Re-using Omnimovers
2. Building a clunky show-building with a poor queue in DCA.
3. The last couple ride scenes in LM look very unfinished, and they duplicate a lot of the characters who are just dancing like in the Under the Sea scene, it is noticeable to many.
4. Its a book-report ride that doesn't spur the imagination, but simply reviews some songs in the film.

 

[flynnibus]

The changes to LM were made due to guest comments about the attraction. People commented that Ariel's hair look like a soft-serve ice cream cone, and didn't get it that it was inspired from a scene from the movie, and people didn't like the animation on the screens, among other things. Imagineers had months and months to ride the ride themselves in private and make changes, they posted online videos of the making of Ariel's hair.

No matter how long the imagineers study something themselves - there they are still not really the intended audience and live within a bubble. They won't know what happens in the great wide public until they let them at it. So no matter how happy or not they were with it prior - once put in action it got lots of comments. That is part of them being happy with the outcome or not.

The ariel hair wasn't holding back attendance nor do they think fixing it will boost attendance. It's a minor tweak (that probably cost the company booku money overall). But the fix is because the product didn't meet their expectations and the guests - not because 'the line is 10% shorter than we wanted.. fix ariel now!'. They fixed it so quickly because they felt the show needed it... and they know such fixes aren't going to directly relate to increased demand. They are in this for the long haul.

You say they are going to radical change TLM in MK because DCAs did so bad. I say... lets come back to this thread at the end of the year and watch when the core of the rides are virtually the same and see how you feel.

 

[flynnibus]

Exactly, the omni-movers are decades old technology which wouldn't work well for most dark ride as you can't see all around you and in the "white light" of Mermaid, it feels claustrophobic. Toad, Snow White, Peter Pan, all give you the feel of being out in the open, and you can look around and enjoy the scenes.

Sorry - this is just crap. Even in those rides you mentioned, in most scenes there is only one 'thing'/direction to look at per scene. By design, the designers are trying to direct your focus through the use of voids and lightning. The omnimover elevates this by allowing the ride vehicle to turn and almost force the guest's view. Snow White, Toad, etc have no openness to their sets at all. They are close and intimate. Peter Pan is different in that you fly up in the air vs ground level.. so it adds a dimension of height most of the dark rides do not really utilize.

The clam shell of HM and TLM are choices - not requirements. Look at Imagination, that was/is omnimovers without the surrounds blocking you in.

The choice of of narrowed focus and what the guest's is focused on really is by choice - nothing to do with the omnimovers as the ride vehicles.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Exactly, the omni-movers are decades old technology which wouldn't work well for most dark ride as you can't see all around you and in the "white light" of Mermaid, it feels claustrophobic. Toad, Snow White, Peter Pan, all give you the feel of being out in the open, and you can look around and enjoy the scenes.

Omnimover works in Haunted Mansion as most of the stuff is pretty dark and the "shell" of the omnimover isn't as noticeable.

They could have designed a unique ride system config which loads quickly, yet offers unique ride vehicles, but they just "phoned it in" with Mermaid by:

1. Re-using Omnimovers
2. Building a clunky show-building with a poor queue in DCA.
3. The last couple ride scenes in LM look very unfinished, and they duplicate a lot of the characters who are just dancing like in the Under the Sea scene, it is noticeable to many.
4. Its a book-report ride that doesn't spur the imagination, but simply reviews some songs in the film.

Yes, we all would have preferred a brand new ride system and we would all prefer every new attraction to be ground breaking but that's simply not realistic. Nothing in Disney's history has led us to believe that would ever be the case. Even those of us the reminisce about the good ol' days aren't that delusional. Not every attraction can be an E-ticket because then the definition of that type of attraction would change.

As for Mermaid being a book report - isn't that the point of any Fantasyland style ride? Also, if we're talking about horrible endings - what about the ending to Snow White's Scary Adventures in Disneyland? You get a rock dropped on you and then you live happily ever after? What is it that people are looking for in the final scene for Mermaid? Yes, if they had an explosion and you actually saw the battle between Triton and Ursula it would be a far superior ride, but when has a Fantasyland ride ever had that type of scope or drama?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yes, we all would have preferred a brand new ride system and we would all prefer every new attraction to be ground breaking but that's simply not realistic. Nothing in Disney's history has led us to believe that would ever be the case. Even those of us the reminisce about the good ol' days aren't that delusional. Not every attraction can be an E-ticket because then the definition of that type of attraction would change.

As for Mermaid being a book report - isn't that the point of any Fantasyland style ride?

Actually, a lot of Disney history makes us think that they would develop a new ride system. Look at Indy, they were going to go with a mine train ride, but changed it to Jeeps because they felt it would be derivative to Big Thunder. Disney makes a conscious effort to develop new ride systems, or at least different ride vehicles.

We're not talking about doing something impossible, or even "ground-breaking" but developing a ride system which is different from those used elsewhere, perhaps a variation. This wouldn't cost millions and millions of dollars. Sure, some ride systems were duplicated, especially when they were just starting building people eater rides, they came up with the boat system used in Small World and Pirates, but didn't really use it again at Disneyland.

Tony Baxter, who worked on the Fantasyland upgrade in Disneyland, didn't go for the straight "book-report" rides, he added stuff not in the film, but which would make a ride interesting, and be in that character's world.



I still feel perfectly comfortable saying that the Omnimover system doesn't work well for Mermaid, and that they should have gone with something else.

Restricting field of view is OK in some circumstances, but on Toad you've got 360 views and on Mermaid it is 180 . . . yet you can still look up and see the ceiling and all the lights.

It was Eisner who said that rides trick people into having a good time and that nobody would ever "look back" on a Disney ride. If you know where to "look back" on Toad you can Sherlock Holmes in a window and other cool stuff.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Sorry - this is just crap.

I don't think you should refer to other's legitimate opinions as "crap", people have different opinions.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't think you should refer to other's legitimate opinions as "crap", people have different opinions.

Maybe gather more facts before forming opinions? Buzz lightyear, Imagination, and the original Living Seas all show how weak your stated opinion really was.