Does Michael Jackson belong at WDW?

[VeggiFruitFruit]

So the question then becomes; Should you be able to shove your values and standards down someone's proverbial throat or make your protest personally?

I'm not stating you're doing the former just the question that came to me.

Someone's values will need to be used to make decisions. No decision is value neutral. I'm sure that TDO has used their own values for this decision. We can either accept those value judgments and implicitly agree with them, or reject them as incompatible with our own.

I've already stated earlier in the thread that I would just stop going to WDW if similar decisions were made. For now I will avoid the attraction.

 

[Horizons1]

I enjoy hearing everyone's opinions, and although it hasn't happened on this particular thread, these kinds of discussions can change my mind. When posters are civil and present ideas rather than attack eachother they can present new ideas and show me sides of an argument I never considered.

In fact the idea that because the parents took a settlement rather than continued to fight may vindicate MJ never occurred to me. As I have said I don't buy that argument, but it was a new idea that made me reevaluate my own feelings on the subject.

I also don't think civilly posting on an internet thread counts as "yelling it out." No one is forced to read the thread or even visit the site. These types of exchanges are what is great about the internet.

But what is the point? You can get just as much enjoyment from reading previous threads about this without there being a new one. The content in this one is no different than the other ones. You've got the fanatics, the indifferents, and finally the I've got nothing better to dos. This has been discussed on at least 30 different other threads. Posting on an internet thread isn't "yelling it out" as you so eloquently put it, but when it's a constant stream of the same threads, then it is "yelling it out".

 

[Mr. Morrow]

The main reason I voted no has nothing to due with MJ. EO doesn't belong in Epcot.

1. Fw is very dated and this will just date it more.
2. FW is a realistic look at the future not SC-FI EO would be better in TL.
3. There is currently nowhere in WDW TL to house so imo they should have put it in FL where Philharmagic is. After all it did play in that very spot for awhile.

 

[xdan0920]

I was happy when that creepo died. Now I am sad that Disney has brought back this craptastic film to honor him.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

I was happy when that creepo died. Now I am sad that Disney has brought back this craptastic film to honor him.

You know what I am not a fan of him but this is just ignorant and immature, I will be glad when middle school starts again.

 

[Yankee Mouse]

My question is for all the morally high folks who think that since Disney is a family park and MJ was a bad role model Captain EO shouldn't be in the parks. Do you folks avoid Rockn Rollercoaster? I am sure Aerosmith's heavy drug use and partying in the past is not setting a good example for your kids. Steven Tyler also recently went back into rehab for his addiction to painkillers. What about Buzz Lightyear? Do you still get your picture taken with him or ride Space Ranger Spin or Toy Story Mania despite Tim Allen's drug use and arrest for driving drunk?

 

[wizards8507]

I'm amazed that people who don't like these threads still come in to post. Same thing with the people who don't the the Poll provides enough options, but they vote anyways. Nobody is dragged into this conversation and nobody is forced to vote in the poll. Is the fact that this conversation is happening really so offensive to you? And the reason this thread exists in the first place is because everyone in the "other" threads believed that they should be discussing the attraction and only the attraction, with no reference to MJ himself.

 

[wizards8507]

My question is for all the morally high folks who think that since Disney is a family park and MJ was a bad role model Captain EO shouldn't be in the parks. Do you folks avoid Rockn Rollercoaster? I am sure Aerosmith's heavy drug use and partying in the past is not setting a good example for your kids. Steven Tyler also recently went back into rehab for his addiction to painkillers. What about Buzz Lightyear? Do you still get your picture taken with him or ride Space Ranger Spin or Toy Story Mania despite Tim Allen's drug use and arrest for driving drunk?

Drug use isn't kiddie diddling. We don't expect perfection, but certain transgressions fly directly in the face of the Disney spirit.

 

[Krack]

My question is for all the morally high folks who think that since Disney is a family park and MJ was a bad role model Captain EO shouldn't be in the parks. Do you folks avoid Rockn Rollercoaster? I am sure Aerosmith's heavy drug use and partying in the past is not setting a good example for your kids. Steven Tyler also recently went back into rehab for his addiction to painkillers. What about Buzz Lightyear? Do you still get your picture taken with him or ride Space Ranger Spin or Toy Story Mania despite Tim Allen's drug use and arrest for driving drunk?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the false equivalency of Steven Tyler, Tim Allen and Michael Jackson. As far as I'm concerned, child molestation is in a different stratosphere of anti-social behavior than recreational drug use and drunk driving. Short of murder, you can't be worse than a child molester.

 

[wizards8507]

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the false equivalency of Steven Tyler, Tim Allen and Michael Jackson. As far as I'm concerned, child molestation is in a different stratosphere of anti-social behavior than recreational drug use and drunk driving. Short of murder, you can't be worse than a child molester.

Short of murder? Under many circumstances, I'd put molestation on the far side of murder.

 

[Evil Genius]

Short of murder? Under many circumstances, I'd put molestation on the far side of murder.

But again let us point out it was never proven that he molested anybody!

And to whomever stated that it's the Michael Jackson issue that has created the need for parents to teach their children the difference between fantasy and reality...personally I think it's a fundamental key to parenting that we teach our kids this exact thing! Otherwise you are seriously creating a situation that could become detrimental later in their development.

But that's a different debate altogether.

 

[wizards8507]

And to whomever stated that it's the Michael Jackson issue that has created the need for parents to teach their children the difference between fantasy and reality...personally I think it's a fundamental key to parenting that we teach our kids this exact thing!

But isn't it a "fundamental key" of Walt Disney Word that you're supposed to allow fantasy to become reality? Kids and adults?

 

[Evil Genius]

But isn't it a "fundamental key" of Walt Disney Word that you're supposed to allow fantasy to become reality? Kids and adults?

Yes and no.

Yes you can "lose" yourself to the fantasy that is WDW...but does that mean you completely let your guard down as a parent?

In the Haunted Mansion if your child becomes frightened do you stay so committed to the "fantasy" that allow your child to be scared believing those to be real ghosts?

That a troll is forcing you backwards over a water fall?

See where I'm going with this?

 

[wizards8507]

Yes and no.

Yes you can "lose" yourself to the fantasy that is WDW...but does that mean you completely let your guard down as a parent?

In the Haunted Mansion if your child becomes frightened do you stay so committed to the "fantasy" that allow your child to be scared believing those to be real ghosts?

That a troll is forcing you backwards over a water fall?

See where I'm going with this?

I see an opportunity to continue the fantasy in those situations with "those are 'happy haunts'" or "he can't get us, we're safe," rather than "don't worry, that's just a rubber head on a hydraulic lift with ultraviolet illumination."

Regardless, fear is different than moral ambiguity.

 

[Evil Genius]

I see an opportunity to continue the fantasy in those situations with "those are 'happy haunts'" or "he can't get us, we're safe," rather than "don't worry, that's just a rubber head on a hydraulic lift with ultraviolet illumination."

Regardless, fear is different than moral ambiguity.

Of course it's different than moral ambiguity.

However if your kid doesn't already know of the questionable past of Jackson could you not allow your child to enjoy the attraction at face value without divulging the past?

 

[Alexx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_NvTkcnU3s

Does this belong here?:lookaroun

But seriously though he was a great performer and the "king of pop" but just because he died I don't think this was a need to bring back the attraction. They coud have replaced it with something more "futuristic" and new.

 

[VeggiFruitFruit]

My question is for all the morally high folks

Just because someone recognizes that they hold themselves and their children to moral standards does not make them any higher or lower than anyone else. It's not a comparison, it's a choice.

This all boils down to two things:

1) Do you accept that there is a TRUTH, an absolute right and a wrong, a good and bad, that applies to everyone?

2) Do you choose to avoid the wrong in the world, or help your children avoid and discern the wrong in the world?

who think that since Disney is a family park and MJ was a bad role model Captain EO shouldn't be in the parks.

You are making a "morally high" value judgment here. :hammer:

Do you folks avoid Rockn Rollercoaster?

No.

I am sure Aerosmith's heavy drug use and partying in the past is not setting a good example for your kids. Steven Tyler also recently went back into rehab for his addiction to painkillers. What about Buzz Lightyear? Do you still get your picture taken with him or ride Space Ranger Spin or Toy Story Mania despite Tim Allen's drug use and arrest for driving drunk?

As I stated earlier in the thread, all of these people, unlike MJ, recognize some wrong they have done that needs fixing (rehab), at least to some degree. Also, drugs/alcohol are not necessarily morally wrong, but can be abused.

Molesting children is always, and always will be, wrong.
Denying that you are doing it, or excusing it as OK, is abhorrent me, and I will choose to avoid any implicit agreement (EO) with this.

 

[stlbobby]

But what is the point? You can get just as much enjoyment from reading previous threads about this without there being a new one. The content in this one is no different than the other ones. You've got the fanatics, the indifferents, and finally the I've got nothing better to dos. This has been discussed on at least 30 different other threads. Posting on an internet thread isn't "yelling it out" as you so eloquently put it, but when it's a constant stream of the same threads, then it is "yelling it out".

Actually this is the only thread where MJ himself, his controversial past, and should that be part of WDW is being officially discussed. Everywhere else it has been brought up it has been shut down as not part of the thread.

If you don't like this thread why do you keep reading and responding? Are other people not allowed to have a civil discussion because you do not approve of the topic?

 

[xdan0920]

You know what I am not a fan of him but this is just ignorant and immature, I will be glad when middle school starts again.

Normally I would hesitate to dignify this with a response, but today work is a bit slow. You have a problem with how I judge a probable child molester, and yet you snippily judge me? What hypocritical nonsense. I shall be happy when the elementary schools start up again so that I may be rid of you.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

Normally I would hesitate to dignify this with a response, but today work is a bit slow. You have a problem with how I judge a probable child molester, and yet you snippily judge me? What hypocritical nonsense. I shall be happy when the elementary schools start up again so that I may be rid of you.

Thank god you are not a judge HE WAS NEVER CONVICTED. Innocent till proven guilty and you come here and say you are glad he is dead.

I question your morals.