Does Epcot Need Saving?

[hehasbeenchosen]

I do not think it needs "saving" I think that, even though there are things that may need updating, (this happens everywhere, right?) it is definitely the most interesting, thought provoking park that Disney has.Among the things that I would change would be to redo The Odyssey Center.I have always been confused when I walk across the bridge to what looks to be a storage place. What actually is it used for other than restrooms and baby changing/feeding? It sure is a big building for that.I am sure it is a constant challenge to stay "ahead of the curve" for all the parks, particularly Epcot, but all in all, it is a great great park.

 

[jtwyatt]

I agree that EPCOT has come a long way since the late 90's/early 2000's. Now there draws for all age groups in the park. Nemo/Imagination for the Little ones, Mission/Test Track for the teens and Yound adults, Soarin/SSE for the Families, and the World Showcase for those looking for a calm, relaxing experiance.

I think one Change thought would help would be to put a E-Ticket type ride in the Worls Showcase, to help thin out FW a little bit in the AM.

Epcot has come a long way over the past 10 years, but there is always room to improve.

 

[TubaGeek]

It needs more characters. Buzz is popular... maybe they can retheme Mission: Space.

Really, I don't mean to be rude, but... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! M:S is one of the few rides where the characters have NOT invaded. Don't get me wrong, one of the things I love about WDW is the characters, but they have no business ruining one of the best "Mickey-free" attractions. Not to mention, there's no way they would retheme an attraction so new.

Also, the height requirement for the ride is 44". There's no way Disney would put Buzz in a ride w/a height requirement like that, so they'd have to tame down the ride to the point that it would no longer be M:S.

FINALLY, there's enough Buzz at WDW. No more, please.

I'm sorry I've vented a bit, and I know you were just throwing out an idea, but I just had to get it off my chest. Thanks for being my metaphorical punching bag...

 

[jakeman]

We really need an Epcot only forum here.

I've said it before, there is no difference from EPCOT Center and Epcot except the direction of marketing.

Those who lament of the good old days of dark ride on top of dark ride and vision of the future that were unrealistic ten years later fell for marketing. I don't think I've ever put it that bluntly, but there it is.

You fell for marketing. You bought everything they were selling on the opening day television program and haven't let go of it since. When the original concept faltered and the company made adjustments you held fast to the idea you were sold outright.

Are there weak spots in Epcot? Sure. There are weak spots in every park. I can guess that what a majority of the EPCOT Center folks here think are the weak spots are just factless opinions of what they think the park should be.

With possibily the exception of MK every park has had tweaks and changes to their themes. DHS is in the middle of a huge change right now. DAK took the serious tones from the first few years down a few notches.

EPCOT Center purist are like Star Wars fans. Paraphrasing George Lucas: Disney won't be able to get it right because it will never match what is in your head.

 

[ryguy]

Basically Epcot needs to upgrade the imagination pavillion and something needs to be done with the wonders of life pavillion. Innoventions is a complete waste, they need more hands on exhibits. It should be like a trade show atomosphere where companies can show what is on the horizon. I like the weather idea and the segway demonstration. More things like this would make for a better guest experience in my mind. Surely there are companies out there that would like to showcase there new products. World showcase needs a new country, as much as I love it there is nothing really new to see at world showcase. If it weren't for the restaurants I would never go back there. :slurp:

 

[Timmay]

Disney won't be able to get it right because it will never match what is in your head.

This is exactly right…it’s not the way they want it to be. If you don’t grasp the grand vision of “what Walt intended”, you are simply there to get drunk or see Goofy.

What some folks fail to realize is that if people wanted to go on vacation to “discover ancient Mexico” or see the “vistas of Canada”, they would spend their thousands of vacation dollars and actually go to Mexico or Canada and, you know, see the real thing. By spending their thousands of vacation dollars on Disney, I think they expect to see Disney. Odd, I know.

 

[Legacy]

Really, I don't mean to be rude, but... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! M:S is one of the few rides where the characters have NOT invaded. Don't get me wrong, one of the things I love about WDW is the characters, but they have no business ruining one of the best "Mickey-free" attractions. Not to mention, there's no way they would retheme an attraction so new.

Also, the height requirement for the ride is 44". There's no way Disney would put Buzz in a ride w/a height requirement like that, so they'd have to tame down the ride to the point that it would no longer be M:S.

FINALLY, there's enough Buzz at WDW. No more, please.

I'm sorry I've vented a bit, and I know you were just throwing out an idea, but I just had to get it off my chest. Thanks for being my metaphorical punching bag...

Thanks for giving me the reaction that I wanted.

 

[fireworkz]

What some folks fail to realize is that if people wanted to go on vacation to “discover ancient Mexico” or see the “vistas of Canada”, they would spend their thousands of vacation dollars and actually go to Mexico or Canada and, you know, see the real thing. By spending their thousands of vacation dollars on Disney, I think they expect to see Disney. Odd, I know.

I don't know if I would 100% agree with that - sure in the case of Canada and Mexico (and don't forget USA) being in North America, if you wanted to experience those countries you would spend the money and go there. However, there's the other countries especially Japan and China. It's very expensive for an average family to go there, so for those pavilions I think the average WS guest would want to absorb as much of the culture as possible. Sure no one minds having Aladdin show up in Morocco, but I don't think anyone wants Epcot's Morocco to start looking like say Busch Gardens Africa's Morocco.

 

[colleen2997]

The one thing that NEED to go, or at least get refurbished, is the Odyssey building. I am shocked that Disney allows a structure that looks so dated. I feel like I am right back in 1975 everytime I pass thing.

 

[Red devil]

no!

 

[TubaGeek]

Thanks for giving me the reaction that I wanted.

Anytime.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Sure no one minds having Aladdin show up in Morocco, but I don't think anyone wants Epcot's Morocco to start looking like say Busch Gardens Africa's Morocco.

Oh, that would be terrible. Please, NO!

Does Epcot need saving? No. Its been 25 years, and the park is still the third most visited in the country. In fact, when you get rid of the "Magic Kingdom" parks, Epcot is the most attended park in the country, and second most in the world! When you look at it that way, in no way does Epcot need saving.

I'm not saying Epcot doesn't need to be improved; there quite a few areas where I think Epcot could and should be improved. Many of you have already addressed these areas. But Epcot, at this point in time, is not in need of saving, just improving.

 

[Tim G]

NO Thill Rides in World Showcase...

It was never build for these things...

There's enough space in Future World for this... If only they wanted...

 

[nibblesandbits]

We really need an Epcot only forum here.

I've said it before, there is no difference from EPCOT Center and Epcot except the direction of marketing.

Those who lament of the good old days of dark ride on top of dark ride and vision of the future that were unrealistic ten years later fell for marketing. I don't think I've ever put it that bluntly, but there it is.

You fell for marketing. You bought everything they were selling on the opening day television program and haven't let go of it since. When the original concept faltered and the company made adjustments you held fast to the idea you were sold outright.

Are there weak spots in Epcot? Sure. There are weak spots in every park. I can guess that what a majority of the EPCOT Center folks here think are the weak spots are just factless opinions of what they think the park should be.

With possibily the exception of MK every park has had tweaks and changes to their themes. DHS is in the middle of a huge change right now. DAK took the serious tones from the first few years down a few notches.

EPCOT Center purist are like Star Wars fans. Paraphrasing George Lucas: Disney won't be able to get it right because it will never match what is in your head.

Bravo!!! Standing ovation there!!! Nailed it 150%.


It's just like the whole Disney-MGM Studios and the who fact that before, it was considered to be a working studio...it was all marketing. Sure, they did some real working studio stuff, but it was all marketed that way. Disney realized that the working studio idea didn't work real well, so they changed it now to Disney's Hollywood Studio and are making it more about celebrating Hollywood. And now, that's their marketing strategy.

Same goes for what you said earlier about EPCOT Center and Epcot of nowadays. It was all marketed to be that way. Disney is a business and they are in the business of marketing things to make you want to come and visit. They do a pretty darn good job of this. Sometimes, though, it doesn't work and people can't deal with the change and the fact that they bought into a marketing campaign and believe it to be the truth that the park was always supposed to be the way the campaign said it was.

And I also wonder why no other park gets criticized as much as Epcot does. It always seems there's something wrong with Epcot, just about every week. But yet, everyone seems so more or less ok with the state of the other parks. When in a way, it's some of the other parks that need more attention.

As you said, every park (except MK) has been tweaked from it's "original" purpose, but it seems that the Epcot fanatics can't seem to deal with the change the most and it makes me wonder why.

 

[KaliSplash]

Admittedly I haven't read through this entire thread, which is unlike me.

But the topic begged a response first.

Saved from what?

I think it's doing just fine.

Which is not to say I wouldn't love to see Wonders of Life. Or the old opening film from The Living Seas.

And I would really love to see some new countries in World Showcase.

But I see nothing that needs "saving."

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

We really need an Epcot only forum here.

I've said it before, there is no difference from EPCOT Center and Epcot except the direction of marketing.

Those who lament of the good old days of dark ride on top of dark ride and vision of the future that were unrealistic ten years later fell for marketing. I don't think I've ever put it that bluntly, but there it is.

You fell for marketing. You bought everything they were selling on the opening day television program and haven't let go of it since. When the original concept faltered and the company made adjustments you held fast to the idea you were sold outright.

Are there weak spots in Epcot? Sure. There are weak spots in every park. I can guess that what a majority of the EPCOT Center folks here think are the weak spots are just factless opinions of what they think the park should be.

With possibily the exception of MK every park has had tweaks and changes to their themes. DHS is in the middle of a huge change right now. DAK took the serious tones from the first few years down a few notches.

EPCOT Center purist are like Star Wars fans. Paraphrasing George Lucas: Disney won't be able to get it right because it will never match what is in your head.

No.There are plenty of times when something didn't match in my head and I loved it.When IllumiNations 25 was being replaces with ROE I was absoultly infuriated.Why would they get rid of this beautiful "original"(In concept) show?I expected totally different in this new show...and now I love it.It wasn't in my head but I still think it's one of the most beautiful pieces if music and fireworks ever created.

As for the original park message...They have changed it,but too much.From 1982 to 1993 we had the original EPCOT Center.Then in 1994 they changed the park to Epcot'94.This was the original change that would open Epcot up to characters,bright showy kinetics and the like.Now,it seems,from 2001-to about 2007/8 they've totally done away with ny respect for the future and just focused on current and outdated issues.

At least in 2007/8 they took the wand down,and refurbed SSE with a bit of sense.That's why I'm optimistic for EPCOT.If they can do these two things right,why not the rest of the park?Immagination is due for a refurb,and after that,most likely a WOL replacement or UoE.I'm sure that if the keep on this "wave of inspiration"they can craft a wonderful park again.

(And,even though It seems like I can't stand the current Epcot,don't let me fool you.I love it.Best place and concept in the world.I just think the park,the Imagineers and Disney has sooooo much more potential.)

 

[Figment571]

We really need an Epcot only forum here.

I've said it before, there is no difference from EPCOT Center and Epcot except the direction of marketing.

Those who lament of the good old days of dark ride on top of dark ride and vision of the future that were unrealistic ten years later fell for marketing. I don't think I've ever put it that bluntly, but there it is.

You fell for marketing. You bought everything they were selling on the opening day television program and haven't let go of it since. When the original concept faltered and the company made adjustments you held fast to the idea you were sold outright.

Are there weak spots in Epcot? Sure. There are weak spots in every park. I can guess that what a majority of the EPCOT Center folks here think are the weak spots are just factless opinions of what they think the park should be.

With possibily the exception of MK every park has had tweaks and changes to their themes. DHS is in the middle of a huge change right now. DAK took the serious tones from the first few years down a few notches.

EPCOT Center purist are like Star Wars fans. Paraphrasing George Lucas: Disney won't be able to get it right because it will never match what is in your head.

I beg to differ that opinion. It seems that those who lament as you say the loss of the original EPCOT Center are suckers for marketing, but I belive they are people who truly want to see what Disney can create that inspires humanity for the future. There is no general idea of what the future will look like now a days. The best thing we have is Will Smith fighting evil/misunderstood robots who threaten all of humanity. There is no idea of a positive future like EPCOT Center presented. There is no general sense of progress among the populous no motivating spark to make people want to be the best they can and build a new future. There is no vision.

You also state that it that this vision of the future became outdated and that is true; but who's fault is that? Disney themselves neglected to continually update and enhance their own vision of the future. They became content and lazy with what they had, even as American Adventure warns, and they fell behind and are now having to play catchup! They now are in a place were they do not feel as if they can create a vision of the future due to the supposed failure they had when it opened, when in fact they are the cause of the vision becoming old due to negligence.

So I personally believe that they need to step back and even look to Walt, and though I may sound like an old guy need to ask themselves what would he look to today and say "That is the future!". They need to help create a new vision of the future that is entirely new. Not one that is based on Jib-Jab and The Jetsons, nor one based on the old idea of the original Horizons, but one that is awe inspiring and unlike anything we have seen.

 

[Epcotbob]

It seems to me that Epcot '82 was basically set up to emulate a "Worlds Fair".

Corporate sponserships showcasing the wonders of technology, cool inventions and possibilities for the future....Future World. The nations of the world each having thier own pavilion....World Showcase.

So while the World Showcase has stayed true to it's original intent, Future World has drifted and seems to be having an identity crisis.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I beg to differ that opinion. It seems that those who lament as you say the loss of the original EPCOT Center are suckers for marketing, but I belive they are people who truly want to see what Disney can create that inspires humanity for the future. There is no general idea of what the future will look like now a days. The best thing we have is Will Smith fighting evil/misunderstood robots who threaten all of humanity. There is no idea of a positive future like EPCOT Center presented. There is no general sense of progress among the populous no motivating spark to make people want to be the best they can and build a new future. There is no vision.

You also state that it that this vision of the future became outdated and that is true; but who's fault is that? Disney themselves neglected to continually update and enhance their own vision of the future. They became content and lazy with what they had, even as American Adventure warns, and they fell behind and are now having to play catchup! They now are in a place were they do not feel as if they can create a vision of the future due to the supposed failure they had when it opened, when in fact they are the cause of the vision becoming old due to negligence.

So I personally believe that they need to step back and even look to Walt, and though I may sound like an old guy need to ask themselves what would he look to today and say "That is the future!". They need to help create a new vision of the future that is entirely new. Not one that is based on Jib-Jab and The Jetsons, nor one based on the old idea of the original Horizons, but one that is awe inspiring and unlike anything we have seen.

Ahhhh...EPCOT Center proof through EPCOT Center ideals.How can it be said better?

Perfect.

 

[Sage of Time]

If Epcot opened the way it is now in 1982,it would be fine.It would have been considered a optimistic if cartoonish vision of the immediate future.However,because it opened with such a verbose and grand way of presentation it remains that nothing will be quite good as that.I agree with thatn philosophy but honestly,I don't mind.Epcot or Epcot Center,it's still a amazing place and I love it no matter what.

:snore: