Does anyone else think DVC ruins the spirit?

[DisneyPhD]

The passes were an incentive when they first opened. They discontinued the passes in 95. Not a bad incentive. We joined in 92 and had free passes until 12/31/99.
Most people join without any incentive, just the "being part of the magic" is enough for them.
DVC is advertised as your home away from home. I don't have a problem with not having housekeeping daily, in fact, I rather enjoy not having it. It takes me NO time to make the bed and tidy up. I tidy up in any place I stay, so, to me it is no different.
The rate for daily housekeeping varies with the size of the unit.
I like to cook, so, that is not an issue either. I don't cook every meal, but, we do save a ton of money on food.
I don't think the add on packages are all that great. But, if you like them, go for it.
I am sorry that DVC is not for you, but to compare it with other timeshares is like comparing apples to oranges. And, it has one of the lowest key sales presentations out there, and heck, they even feed you.

I thought you knew the whole story!

Unlike any other timeshare, you get to stay on WDW property. The off prop resorts are great too I really love Vero Beach. In addtion you can stay at any DL resort, DCL, DL paris (and the parks tics are included with the DL Paris rooms)

There are some great other places around the world you can trade your point for, but not as good of a deal. For us DVC points are too valuable for DVC resorts so we may never end up doing that, or then again we might. We have room for felxibility, but we have our next 3 years of trips currenlty planned out.

 

[FourFourSeven]

On the "is it or is it not worth it" argument.

I decided to run the numbers on it to decide once and for all if DVC is "worth it" or a good deal financially. For what it's worth, I've got an economics and business background. Anyway, here's the answer: (Drumroll, please):

It depends... (Sorry - not a decisive answer - but let me explain)

IF you plan on going to Disney every year, and...
IF you don't mind being "locked in" and...
IF you were going to go to a deluxe resort each time and...
IF you don't plan to rent the points instead of using them from time to time and...
IF the value doesn't decrease in future years (longshot, but suppose in ten years Disney is bought out, the parks are sold piecemeal, and it's not so "Disney" any more)

Then DVC isn't a bad deal. The overall cost (including tax benefits, cost of capital, etc) will be cheaper than buying rooms "a la carte" each year. Not hugely cheaper, but still cheaper.

However, if these factors don't apply - say you would otherwise spend half your Disney trips at moderate or value resorts, or you want to go elsewhere for some vacations (perish the thought!), then DVC is not a good investment financially.

So where does that put you? If you like going to Disney every year, you know you will for the far foreseeable future, and you want the same deluxe room every year, than go for DVC! If that doesn't apply, then it's probably not a great idea...

 

[raland2002]

As DVC members, are there any deals on park passes?

 

[DisneyPhD]

As DVC members, are there any deals on park passes?

Hey I thought I already answered this, but here we go.

As of Jan 2, 2005 DVC members get $100 off of an adult AP (a bit more off PAP) and I think it is around 80 or so of child. You can buy up to 8 for family members who live in your home. This is new and DVC membesr have been asking for it for a while. If you are a FLA resident you get a little bit more off too.

10% off Lengh of stay passes (I think they have a new name)

10% off TDS, this is subject to change, but has been around for a while and did not go away when they changed hands.

Most other perks are close to or the same as AP discounts. (10% of some meals and tours, spa treatments etc...)

 

[raland2002]

Sorry for this stupid question but whata an AP?

 

[DisneyPhD]

Sorry for this stupid question but whata an AP?

Sorry Annual Pass Unlimited entery to all for theme parks for one year (MK, Epcot, MGM and AK)

PAP Preium Annual Pass (inculded water parks and Pleasure Island, maybe Disney Quest too, not sure since I never get one of those.)

TDS is the Disney Store.

 

[pax_65]

Look at the Quality of Accomodations!

I am a very happy DVC member.

Reading through this thread, I'm amazed at the notes saying DVC membership gives you a "just a room" and the complaints about "housekeeping". I think these people are missing an important point.

DVC 1-BR, 2-BR, and 3-BR units are "vacation homes", not "rooms". I can go on week-long vacation with my kids, and my wife and I get our OWN BEDROOM. (Put a value on THAT in your formula!) Plus I get my own full kitchen with big refrigerator, a beautiful & comfortable living room with couch, television, DVD player, etc. Literally all the comforts of home. As a result, we spend time here -- to eat breakfast and (sometimes) lunch, relax at the end of the day, watch TV in the evening (after Illuminations). We don't just sleep there - we use the home like you'd use a vacation home at the beach.

Now I'm spoiled. My days of cramming my entire family into a single hotel room are OVER. That's no way to vacation!

 

[lamarvenoy]

lamarvenoy, I have re-read your 1st post and I am not sure I understand. What is it you miss that staying at a "regular WDW resort" gives you? Exepct for daily mousekeeping there is nothing else DVC doesn't get. Could you elaberate?

What I DIDN'T feel was Disney magic. I felt like I was in a time share. Over the years I've been forced to stay at a few time shares when I couldn't get reservations on property and they have a similar feel....not quite a hotel room,TRYING to give you an at home feel. If I wanted an "at home" feel I would buy a home in Celebration. I like clean towels,I like a maid "tidying" up everyday and I don't like paying $25/day extra. The value isn't there to me. Especially now that all Deluxe and Mods have fridges now....free.I spend a lot of time on property and I use their discount codes and I can't help but feel apples to apples I'm PAYING LESS for comparible accomodations and SUPERIOR service if you count maid service not being included. The only way DVC rates are cheaper is if you use the ridiculously high "rack rates" they make up. 2-bedroom villa $500/night.etc.

For the most part when I stay at a moderate it is $79-89 a night or a deluxe $119-169 a night.If you want to compare "rack rates" they are Mods $149. Deluxe $249-319. But when prices are that high I simply don't go! I stayed at the POP for 4 days last month on one of my trips that were spur of the moment $238 for 4 nights housekeeping included and I swear it was a MUCH nicer room than the one I had at the DVCWL-at close to $200/1 night.

I wasn't going to bring this up but what spurred me to start this thread was a particular incident. My Brother in law asked me to join. He knows we go all the time and he only goes every few years,he offered to give me his leftover points if I want to join. He stayed at the Boardwalk villas over Thanksgiving weekend at a $500/night 2 bedroom villa. He liked it and on a whim deceided to buy into the premium DVC package. Even with that kind of incentive I just can't see it, I enjoy the "hotel" experience too much. When I'm on vacation I want to feel like I'm in a hotel and to me part of that is missing in the DVC. We are supposed to stay at the Boardwalk villas with them for a 7 day trip later in the year,maybe that will curve my feelings-but until then it seems like just another overpriced Florida time share to me.

 

[Gail Hayden]

On the "is it or is it not worth it" argument.

I decided to run the numbers on it to decide once and for all if DVC is "worth it" or a good deal financially. For what it's worth, I've got an economics and business background. Anyway, here's the answer: (Drumroll, please):

It depends... (Sorry - not a decisive answer - but let me explain)

IF you plan on going to Disney every year, and...
IF you don't mind being "locked in" and...
IF you were going to go to a deluxe resort each time and...
IF you don't plan to rent the points instead of using them from time to time and...
IF the value doesn't decrease in future years (longshot, but suppose in ten years Disney is bought out, the parks are sold piecemeal, and it's not so "Disney" any more)

Then DVC isn't a bad deal. The overall cost (including tax benefits, cost of capital, etc) will be cheaper than buying rooms "a la carte" each year. Not hugely cheaper, but still cheaper.

However, if these factors don't apply - say you would otherwise spend half your Disney trips at moderate or value resorts, or you want to go elsewhere for some vacations (perish the thought!), then DVC is not a good investment financially.

So where does that put you? If you like going to Disney every year, you know you will for the far foreseeable future, and you want the same deluxe room every year, than go for DVC! If that doesn't apply, then it's probably not a great idea...

I agree with most of your excellent post, but, I do want to know what you mean by:

IF you don't mind being "locked in"

 

[Gail Hayden]

I am a very happy DVC member.

Reading through this thread, I'm amazed at the notes saying DVC membership gives you a "just a room" and the complaints about "housekeeping". I think these people are missing an important point.

DVC 1-BR, 2-BR, and 3-BR units are "vacation homes", not "rooms". I can go on week-long vacation with my kids, and my wife and I get our OWN BEDROOM. (Put a value on THAT in your formula!) Plus I get my own full kitchen with big refrigerator, a beautiful & comfortable living room with couch, television, DVD player, etc. Literally all the comforts of home. As a result, we spend time here -- to eat breakfast and (sometimes) lunch, relax at the end of the day, watch TV in the evening (after Illuminations). We don't just sleep there - we use the home like you'd use a vacation home at the beach.

Now I'm spoiled. My days of cramming my entire family into a single hotel room are OVER. That's no way to vacation!

You forgot the washer and dryer and vaccuum cleaner.

 

[Gail Hayden]

lamarvenoy, I have re-read your 1st post and I am not sure I understand. What is it you miss that staying at a "regular WDW resort" gives you? Exepct for daily mousekeeping there is nothing else DVC doesn't get. Could you elaberate?

What I DIDN'T feel was Disney magic. I felt like I was in a time share. Over the years I've been forced to stay at a few time shares when I couldn't get reservations on property and they have a similar feel....not quite a hotel room,TRYING to give you an at home feel. If I wanted an "at home" feel I would buy a home in Celebration. I like clean towels,I like a maid "tidying" up everyday and I don't like paying $25/day extra. The value isn't there to me. Especially now that all Deluxe and Mods have fridges now....free.I spend a lot of time on property and I use their discount codes and I can't help but feel apples to apples I'm PAYING LESS for comparible accomodations and SUPERIOR service if you count maid service not being included. The only way DVC rates are cheaper is if you use the ridiculously high "rack rates" they make up. 2-bedroom villa $500/night.etc.

For the most part when I stay at a moderate it is $79-89 a night or a deluxe $119-169 a night.If you want to compare "rack rates" they are Mods $149. Deluxe $249-319. But when prices are that high I simply don't go! I stayed at the POP for 4 days last month on one of my trips that were spur of the moment $238 for 4 nights housekeeping included and I swear it was a MUCH nicer room than the one I had at the DVCWL-at close to $200/1 night.

I wasn't going to bring this up but what spurred me to start this thread was a particular incident. My Brother in law asked me to join. He knows we go all the time and he only goes every few years,he offered to give me his leftover points if I want to join. He stayed at the Boardwalk villas over Thanksgiving weekend at a $500/night 2 bedroom villa. He liked it and on a whim deceided to buy into the premium DVC package. Even with that kind of incentive I just can't see it, I enjoy the "hotel" experience too much. When I'm on vacation I want to feel like I'm in a hotel and to me part of that is missing in the DVC. We are supposed to stay at the Boardwalk villas with them for a 7 day trip later in the year,maybe that will curve my feelings-but until then it seems like just another overpriced Florida time share to me.

What is a premium DVC package? This is a new one to me.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I am hopeing this is not true, but I have read on line that codes and AP discounts for 2005 are not going to be as good, not as avilalbe and much less discounted rated.

We were hoping to do a half WDW value or mod room half DVC VB week in May. I hope we still will be able too.

However DVC the price is locked in so I know we can always get that. Codes are great, but there are no promises.

lamarvenoy, sorry you had a different feel like a WDW guest feeling on your trip. I have never stayed at any other timeshare since we are DVC and only want to stay on prop. I have never felt less magic because of DVC and I know many DVC members who feel extra specail as members. Mostly I feel great knowing we have many years of vacations ahead of us.

The new fridges in mod and deluxe rooms are great. But they are only that, not microwaves, coffe makers, sinks (not bathrrom) and certinly not the entire kicthens and washer and dryers, DVD players, extra room to sit that the one bedrooms and more have.

pax_65 had a great point. I try not to focus on how great the 1 and 2 bedrooms are since we have been using studios more to save points and take more then one trip a year or longer trips. They do tend to eat up your points. But even studios are better then normal resort rooms. 1 and 2 bedroom, there is no comparing. :sohappy:

For what you get it makes towels and made beds seem very unimportant. IMO all the maids do is move my junk around anyway. I do miss the towel animals a little. I am willing to bet that if I talked to a mousekeeping person in the hall and told her I missed the towel animals she would give me one for our room to surprize our DD. CM are just as great to DVCers too.

Merry Chirstmas everyone. :xmas:

 

[Woody13]

Then DVC isn't a bad deal. The overall cost (including tax benefits, cost of capital, etc) will be cheaper than buying rooms "a la carte" each year. Not hugely cheaper, but still cheaper.

Don't forget to include depreciation. The DVC currently maintains right of first refusal (ROFR) on all DVC contracts. This keeps the value of those contracts artificially high. The DVC has only been in existence since 1991 so 13 years is only a 26% slice out of the contract pie. However, when that slice reaches 40 to 50% (7 to 11 years) you are going to see a sharp slump in the DVC values. Then it will only be a matter of time before the DVC will not want to exercise its ROFR and the prices will continue to drop even more. It is common now to see Disney Vero Beach points selling in the low 60's.

As DVC owners begin to realize that their membership is running out (20 years or less), a phenomenon will occur that happens to all leasehold property. Values will plunge as buyers will only purchase a property with 20 years or less if they can get a significant discount. DVC will most likely offer extensions to members to encourage them not to resell and/or will move them to a new contract (for a high price). Most owners will not renew and will rent out their points and/or sell their contracts. This oversupply of rental points and memberships will cause the old contracts to plunge in value even further.

The DVC itself will continue to make money hand over fist because they can (at their choosing) exercise the ROFR and therefore, pick and choose the contracts they desire to buy back (if any). In short the DVC has all the equity while the DVC member has no equity and no fee simple title. Ultimately, the DVC has time on its side.

As for regular Disney resort discounts, ask any hotelier. It's better to have a guest in the room at a 50% discount off rack rates than to have an empty room while asking for rack rates. WDW is way overbuilt with resorts and heavy discounts will continue. Heck, I've been a regular resort guest at WDW (and off site resorts) during the past 30 years. I have never once paid rack rate for any accommodations in the greater Orlando area. It has always been easy to find discounts of 40 to 50% or more in high quality resorts. The hotel industry is very competitive and that competition helps the consumer.

 

[PhilosophyMagic]

1. How would we know.....Interval Ownership did not really exist in Walt's day?

2. Walt was all about merchandising and making money. He did not really have the TV show to "be all nice and whatnot" to kids and families....he did it to promote his product and later to promote Disneyland.

For all I know Walt Disney's concern really was money-making, which is fine, but from what I've read, Walt did very much enjoy perfecting the details of his creations and making them particularly special. Maybe it was for his own enjoyment, but Walt definitely did spend more money than was needed for maintenance, dissolve his own life-insurance to pay for the gold leaf on the Disneyland castle, delay the opening of Blue Bayou in Disneyland for months because he didn't like the lighting, etc.

I was just pointing out that Disney is not nearly as concerned with the "unneeded" touches and absolute perfection as Walt himself was, so we shouldn't expect it to be that way. Not complaining by any means... just trying to say HEY! It won't be "perfect" but there is still a high level of quality and a lot to expect and look forward to at Disney as long as we don't expect Walt.

And yes, for all I know Walt would have thought the time-shares were a great idea!

 

[lamarvenoy]

A good example of Woody's point is Westgate Holdings Ltd. I stayed there twice last year when I couldn't get a room on Disney property and using "hotwire"-Orbitz without knowing where your staying only accomodations, both times I got Westgate on 192. That place is one of a chain of timeshares nationwide under the Westgate name, In the 80's it was pretty nice from what I understand but as contracts got older and ROFR's started getting refused value plommeted. Upon checking in a guy ran the numbers with me- 12K buy in/$1500 annual fees for 7-14 days per year- 30 year . Then I dropped the bomb on him- I rented a 2 bedroom suite for 3 nights at $88/ night including tax and fees. That room package would have given me 7 nights per year- Think about it I could RENT the place for $616 no strings attached or upfront money or "buy in" and pay $12K and $1500 per year for the same place.He wasn't upset he just walked up to the next guest. NOW, I got home and checked online and found out people were basically giving away their memberships because the annual fees were worth more than the price of the room WITHOUT a commitment. I don't need a washer and dryer in my room, the only time I want to see a vacuum is in the maid's hand as I return to a freshly cleaned room. I think the maids do a pretty good job and I definately trust them to clean a room better than the guest before me. You could inflate the prices of rooms to make the timeshare deal look better but in time all you are left with is an artificial demand for inflated priced rooms.

 

[dvcnut39]

We're from Pittsburgh. My parents recently advised us that they were going to visit some relatives in Florida (Deland), but did not want to stay with them the entire two weeks. They always feel that they are intruding. My parents would never accept any gifts from us, so when I suggested that they visit WDW for a couple of nights, they agreed as long as they paid for the room themselves. I reluctantly agreed and started surfing the net for deals. I tried all the usual spots, but found no luck on-property. I was surprised because up here they were running commercials with specials of $50/nt at the Value Resorts. I was also surprised because I recently booked a room for my friend (who lives in Philadelphia) for $80/nt at CB. He went the 1st week of DEC and my parents were going to be at WDW the 2nd week of DEC. Both trips were well within the "secret season". The only difference was my buddy booked a little earlier. As we all know, WDW is very slow those two weeks. After I tried everywhere else, I called Disney. They advised me that the Value Resorts would cost $79/nt and a Moderate Resort would cost $135/nt. I advised Disney of the specials ran at home and of some codes. Disney advised me that all of the "coded" rooms were gone. My wife and I agreed to rent them a studio at 11pts/nt. After we advised my parents that the room was already booked, they accepted. Using the formula in my earlier post (I know that I didn't include the inflation on dues) the studio cost us approximately $66/nt. I feel that even if the DVC depreciates as much as everyone thinks and our dollar is now only worth $.50, that $132/nt for a studio, that is in the heart of the "magic", is a pretty good deal.

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate all the input, but most of the negatives are based if you plan on selling your interest in the DVC. I never plan on selling and when my initial investment has ended, I'll be close to 75yrs young. I know that I will no longer have an interest with the DVC (unless we add on with the 50yr plan at SSR), but I will have a lifetime of memories with my family. Also, as I stated in another post, I do not look at the DVC as an investment (I use other things for that) or a timeshare. I look at DVC as prepaying future Disney vacations, which I'm going to take anyhow, and I get to have some tax write-offs to boot.

 

[Number_6]

I'm a CM over at the Boardwalk Villas and Inn. The DVC members I have met as a result of my being employed there have all been very happy and come back time and again. I had one guest come up to me and say that they had spent two days at AKL and decided that they didn't like it there and came back over to Boardwalk. The people that are comparing DVC to other timeshares have to remember one major thing that separates the DVC from those other timeshares: The points system. Points allow you to take your vacation when you want to take it, instead of the typical timeshare where you have to buy a specific week that never changes. So where the typical timeshare is "You must vacation on the week of August 11-17 every year," DVC allows you to choose when you want to go, with no blackout dates. I am not currently a member, but it is something I am considering, even though I live in Orlando and work for Disney. Someday I would like to take a trip to Disneyland. Someday I would like to go on a Disney Cruise. And I have heard that they are working on someday having the resorts at Tokyo Disney be included for DVC, and that's the place I most want to go to out of all of the Parks worldwide. Will I sign up for it? Who knows. Maybe I will. Maybe not. Hopefully, and I apologize because now I've forgotten who had posted they are visiting Boardwalk this year, myself and my fellow CMs will be able to show you how wonderful a DVC resort can be and you can see why people would join DVC, even if you yourself never will.

 

[pax_65]

Don't get me wrong. I do appreciate all the input, but most of the negatives are based if you plan on selling your interest in the DVC.

This is a great point. If you're looking for an investment, I'm sure you can do better elsewhere. My DVC membership expires (I believe) in 2041. If I'm still sitting by the pool at Old Key West in 2041 I will be a HAPPY guy indeed.

The discussion about Westgate is interesting. My in-laws had some kind of "trial membership" at Westgate in the late 80s/early 90's. The units weren't even close to the Disney standards they were used to from Disney hotels. When they complained to management, they were told "If you like Disney so much, you should go see the timeshare they're building!" My in-laws took the advice - they weren't aware Disney was building a time-share! At that time (1990 I think), Disney did not yet have approval to sell the timeshare outside of Florida, so there hadn't been much advertising. So they went in the construction entrance at "The Disney Vacation Club" (which became Old Key West) and bought almost sight-unseen. I think they were among the first people from Pennsylvania to become members. They could sell their points now and make a HUGE profit off what they paid, but they will NEVER sell.

We mooched off their points (and enjoyed the free park passes!) until we finally became members ourselves in 2000. We're never selling either!

Jon

 

[Gail Hayden]

This is a great point. If you're looking for an investment, I'm sure you can do better elsewhere. My DVC membership expires (I believe) in 2041. If I'm still sitting by the pool at Old Key West in 2041 I will be a HAPPY guy indeed.

The discussion about Westgate is interesting. My in-laws had some kind of "trial membership" at Westgate in the late 80s/early 90's. The units weren't even close to the Disney standards they were used to from Disney hotels. When they complained to management, they were told "If you like Disney so much, you should go see the timeshare they're building!" My in-laws took the advice - they weren't aware Disney was building a time-share! At that time (1990 I think), Disney did not yet have approval to sell the timeshare outside of Florida, so there hadn't been much advertising. So they went in the construction entrance at "The Disney Vacation Club" (which became Old Key West) and bought almost sight-unseen. I think they were among the first people from Pennsylvania to become members. They could sell their points now and make a HUGE profit off what they paid, but they will NEVER sell.

We mooched off their points (and enjoyed the free park passes!) until we finally became members ourselves in 2000. We're never selling either!

Jon

We first saw DVC in 1991, they did not even have any buildings up. It took them until early Dec. 91 to get clearance to sell in CT. We did buy sight unseen, via Fedex. I paid 51.00 per point. I like seeing my "investment" almost double in 12 years. Not too bad. I doubt I will ever sell, heck, the membership made it through a divorce. LOL. I LOVED the passes.

 

[Woody13]

We first saw DVC in 1991, they did not even have any buildings up. It took them until early Dec. 91 to get clearance to sell in CT. We did buy sight unseen, via Fedex. I paid 51.00 per point. I like seeing my "investment" almost double in 12 years. Not too bad. I doubt I will ever sell, heck, the membership made it through a divorce. LOL. I LOVED the passes.

At $51.00 a point 12 years ago, the average rate of annual inflation has been 3%. Therefore, considering normal inflation, OKW should now sell for $73.00 a point. As it turns out, that's exactly the current resale asking price. The only increase has been as a result of normal inflation.