erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Exactly, we see how that has turned out with star wars.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Do the fans always seem to know what's best?
- Thread starter mharrington
- Start date
JusticeDisney
Well-Known Member
I think the real issue on this topic is that WDW - unlike anything else I have ever known - carries with it such a strong sense of nostalgia. So many people, myself included, love WDW and things associated with it because of their childhoods, or past family trips, or other great memories that have been made. When WDW makes changes to its parks or gets rid of certain attractions, peoples’ nostalgia is affected. Obviously, everyone can feel however they want about the current state of WDW and the direction in which it is moving. Personally, even though I am as nostalgic as anyone when it comes to WDW, I still absolutely adore the place and I choose to simply embrace the changes and additions that have come and will continue to come. The way I look at it, I’m just making new memories and creating new nostalgia. And I’ve yet to visit WDW and not have the time of my life.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I think that in any large scale institution, from healthcare to education to private companies to politics and so on, you will always run up against some basic human tendencies. I.e.:
- The memory of "The Golden Days". Whether it's looking back at the past with rose colored glasses and forgetting all the bad stuff; or the phenomenon of "I knew the band when they just played clubs, not stadiums! They've sold out man!!" thinking.
- The human tendency to notice the negative way more than the positive. I've read this is tied to our survival instinct. Way better to notice the one suspicious snake or unsanitary pile of dung nearby or discomforting rustling in the bushes than the exponentially larger number or things that are going pretty well. We have a bit of a laser focus for the negative.
- Armchair quarterbacking, without taking into account the myriad of complex circumstances that go into running a company and how there are always pros and cons, gains and losses that come with any decision. And that pining for a scenario with all pros and no cons - a fantasy dream park that provides days of uninterrupted vacation bliss with every amenity imaginable but also has no lines and also costs very little - simply can't happen. No one is being mean or a jerk in not making it happen, those things are literally not possible.
That said. I like to think of myself as fairly reasonable and forgiving on all of the above fronts. But even I am pretty disappointed with Disney as of late. I spent months and months of the pandemic trapped inside, alone with a new baby, watching Disney vloggers and just dreaming of the day when things were finally back to normal. But now that the world has finally reopened, I've put Disney on hold for a few years until my little one is older. They could have provided a small sense of normalcy to people who were desperate for it. Or they could have reopened with some changes. But the endless holding pattern, the months of no announcements as things have gotten worse in the parks, the fact that the only announcements about new things moving forward have been cuts, like Magical Express - I mean honestly, that's a flashback to what I was doing before, sitting on the living room floor waiting for Coumo's (before he fell from grace) daily thoughts on whether we were all going to die or live as hermits forever, knowing that there would be no definitive new information for months until a vaccine came out anyways.
I get that it's understandable, given the seismic change of the last year and a half. They're a company, not a group of deities, and prone to falling into disorder and confusion and sometimes even poor execution just like everyone else. But like I said, at this point I think they need at least a couple of years to emerge from the rubble of 2020 and rebuild properly. And I get that this is incredibly frustrating for fans.
- The memory of "The Golden Days". Whether it's looking back at the past with rose colored glasses and forgetting all the bad stuff; or the phenomenon of "I knew the band when they just played clubs, not stadiums! They've sold out man!!" thinking.
- The human tendency to notice the negative way more than the positive. I've read this is tied to our survival instinct. Way better to notice the one suspicious snake or unsanitary pile of dung nearby or discomforting rustling in the bushes than the exponentially larger number or things that are going pretty well. We have a bit of a laser focus for the negative.
- Armchair quarterbacking, without taking into account the myriad of complex circumstances that go into running a company and how there are always pros and cons, gains and losses that come with any decision. And that pining for a scenario with all pros and no cons - a fantasy dream park that provides days of uninterrupted vacation bliss with every amenity imaginable but also has no lines and also costs very little - simply can't happen. No one is being mean or a jerk in not making it happen, those things are literally not possible.
That said. I like to think of myself as fairly reasonable and forgiving on all of the above fronts. But even I am pretty disappointed with Disney as of late. I spent months and months of the pandemic trapped inside, alone with a new baby, watching Disney vloggers and just dreaming of the day when things were finally back to normal. But now that the world has finally reopened, I've put Disney on hold for a few years until my little one is older. They could have provided a small sense of normalcy to people who were desperate for it. Or they could have reopened with some changes. But the endless holding pattern, the months of no announcements as things have gotten worse in the parks, the fact that the only announcements about new things moving forward have been cuts, like Magical Express - I mean honestly, that's a flashback to what I was doing before, sitting on the living room floor waiting for Coumo's (before he fell from grace) daily thoughts on whether we were all going to die or live as hermits forever, knowing that there would be no definitive new information for months until a vaccine came out anyways.
I get that it's understandable, given the seismic change of the last year and a half. They're a company, not a group of deities, and prone to falling into disorder and confusion and sometimes even poor execution just like everyone else. But like I said, at this point I think they need at least a couple of years to emerge from the rubble of 2020 and rebuild properly. And I get that this is incredibly frustrating for fans.
It just frustrates me that the fans don't seem to think there's not much we can do about what Disney does, short of boycotting the place. The parks have changed and will continue to change. What's more, they seem to forget that Disney is a corporation that has to make money and please shareholders.
Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
Except.. we ‘do’ know/think this stuff. Please read my most recent responses in your other thread.
Last edited:
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
Then why is it so hard to accept that, for better or worse, they need to keep the money flowing? You seem to think that money should be of secondary concern compared to quality. You seem to think that Disney must never think short-term.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There is more than one way to achieve a goal.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Lol, I call that a publicity stunt. If he didn't care about the $$$ he shouldn't have made the company a public entity.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Have you ever actually read a decent biography on Walt? The company was constantly begging Bank of America for money to keep things going. Walt personally financed part of Disneyland and didn’t do it by using cash that was sitting in the bank.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I can’t believe these were posted all the way back in 2012, but they remain a fascinating read and a look at what made Disney different.
How It Was Done: Part One
How It Was Done: Part Two
How It Was Done: Part Three
How It Was Done: Part Four
How It Was Done: Part One
How It Was Done: Part Two
How It Was Done: Part Three
How It Was Done: Part Four
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
and that's all well and good. and not sure if the biography I read was decent or not but either Walt was snorting fairy dust or just unrealistic but anyone who thinks they are going to go public and NOT have t0 kowtow to the investors is in for a rude awakening.
Investors invest in a company to make money. Now as a consumer if I can vote with my wallet but I invest in the wdw company and expect them to make AS MUCH MONEY for my investment as legally possible and I fully expect the leadership of the company to have the same goal.
the whims of a fan is not how I'd expect any company to operate
jloucks
Well-Known Member
The fans/customers drive demand, and demand drives prices, and prices drive profits, and profits drive success.
So, yes, they do.
If you think customers can be wrong, then you have to wriggle your way around the tenants of capitalism to make that work.
There are a couple categories of goods that bend this rule a little. Just a little.
Art and Exotics. Especially when in the luxury category. In these categories the seller can ignore what 99.9999% of people think and do whatever they want as all you need is one person in 7 billion willing to buy an item to be good to go.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Nobody said the idea was to not make money. By your reasoning Charles Mintz was right.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
I get it and you're right but on the other had look at the vagaries of just the fans on this site. 1/2 of us refuse to move on from the 1980s, the other half wants some new and better every single year and more want Shanghai Disney ( yes I realized that was more than 100) and that's just this site.
It's like the Monday morning quarterback, everybody that doesn't have to do the job SWEARS they know what the real customer wants.
Ps. I did have to Google Charles Mintz
Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
But what makes them the ‘MOST MONEY LEGALLY POSSIBLE’? Decisions that benefit the company both long-term ‘&’ short-term. Nobody is saying they shouldn’t make ‘any’ short-term decisions @mharrington . What we are saying though is that their decision making should be focused on keeping their quality, creativity, & standards in check or else they won’t be successful or profitable long-term, which is essential to the company’s survival.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The only thing anyone wants from the 80s is the attitude towards the parks. Language is symbolic and most people are going to refer to things that already exist as it is an understood baseline, but very few would actually want the same things over and over again.
Almost all of the complaints here are rooted in two things that are themselves related, 1) the 90s business model changes and 2) the franchise mandate. The first was an overreaction to the situation in Paris that didn’t actually address the issues especially since the park itself was not really the problem. The second was just a personal edict because an ongoing success was not understood.
The real kicker though is that almost no one who loves the current situation would actually lose out if those two fundamental changes were undone. Who is going to complain that a shop has unique merchandise to browse and not the same stuff in a bunch of other stores? Who is going to complain that there are too many attractions? That there are too many cash registers open at the too many quick service venues?
But again I ask, who will say that business requires Kevin Feige’s replacement be someone with no movie making experience and only a cursory familiarity with the Marvel Cinematic Universe?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
You seem to be under the assumption that by complaining it will change. As long as they have full parks it will be done exactly the way they see fit. I not only started going to WDW in 1983 as an adult, but I laid on the floor in front of the TV watching the original Mouseketeers romping though Disneyland in the mid 50's. When not doing that I was attending movies that started out with a Disney logo. A lot of things have changed. If Walt or even Roy were still alive, we wouldn't probably be having this discussion. They'd be older then fungus of course, but it was their company to mold what ever way they wanted. In short, we have no choice but to say it's OK or just not go there. Those are the only choices we have.
To remanence about how it was or how we liked it better before is fine, but it is always being spoken like if we complain online it will make them change things. The people that make the decisions have their own staff, to occasionally look at a few post on random discussion forums, but it doesn't matter. They are trying to figure out how to make it so there are no 60+ minute lines because there are so many people coming day after day and do it without spending any money. What we spout about doesn't amount to a snowball in hell. WDW is dedicated back in 1971 to one Walter E. Disney. A person that passed away 55 years ago. He is just a fading memory. How often to you visit the grave of your parents or grandparents. For the most part, almost never, so the ghost of WED is of little influence anymore. Shareholders call the shots based on return on investments.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Should be, but as long as they are taking money to the bank in tandem construction trailers, it will be considered to be doing everything correctly and since none of us live in the future we have no way of really knowing what is long term and what is only short term. Thinking about this only downgrades our own enjoyment fretting over things that we cannot control individually.