Disney's Live Action The Little Mermaid

[Casper Gutman]

The parks have always added incredible value to Disney in the market…

Not only because the merch component provides billions per year with near pathetically small overhead…but because it’s constant brand reinforcement across the Spectrum.

Providing quality in the parks has always added intrinsic value to all Disney products…which can’t be measured in how many upsell cupcakes you push on one given day.

Guess which moron decided that was no longer true?

Oh wow! You suddenly discovered merchandise and "brand reinforcement!" That's amazing, because you just spent pages and pages loudly denigrating anyone who thought such things mattered!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh wow! You suddenly discovered merchandise and "brand reinforcement!" That's amazing, because you just spent pages and pages loudly denigrating anyone who thought such things mattered!

You don’t read as well as you think…

I said that merchandise is not allocated to offset box office failure!!
And that’s true. Period.

And since we’re grasping at straws…that crap is already getting the red/yellow stickers…

Check it

That is not a 1:1 with the world of disney…
You and about 4 other peeps…probably the same 5 that think the last Jedi wasn’t a complete disaster costing money each and everyday…are spinning on mermaid like a corkscrew…just one wild attempt to divert from the realities after another

You’re gonna drill yourself all the way to China…the racists that brought down this bland masterpiece…If you’re not careful.

MAAAAA! THE MEATLOAF!!!

 

[Casper Gutman]

You don’t read as well as you think…

I said what merchandise is not allocated to offset box office failure!!
And that’s true. Period.

And since we’re grasping at straws…that crap is already getting the red/yellow stickers…

Check it

Cool. So merchandise sold in the parks shouldn't be counted in favor of the overall value of the parks. Fair enough.

You're flailing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's because Wall Street understood, just as you and I understood, that none of this was a change in the overall philosophy of investing the minimal amount in the park possible while raising prices, cutting costs, and milking every penny possible from them. A change of overall philosophy would cause a very significant reaction. Why do you think Iger behaves as he does? Do you believe he just hates theme parks for no particular reason?

There’s a reason Iger seriously considered selling the parks. There’s a reason the park go into a panic every time a quarter is looking just a little soft, even if due to reoccurring events like where Easter falls.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cool. So merchandise sold in the parks shouldn't be counted in favor of the overall value of the parks. Fair enough.

You're flailing.

We’re not debating if the parks covered their construction cost! I assure you…they have.

There’s nothing more sad than a complete fail on a gotcha.
Seriously…are you ok?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s a reason Iger seriously considered selling the parks. There’s a reason the park go into a panic every time a quarter is looking just a little soft, even if due to reoccurring events like where Easter falls.

Because they’re costly to run while at the same time are expected to provide daily easy gravy?

 

[Trauma]

What precise changes do you think would both be viewed favorably by Wall Street AND be a positive for fans upset at falling park investment and rising prices - or by fans who like Disney movies?

Hey a good question.

Let’s start with the change that would have the most impact.

The company needs new CEO.

Period.

I know your next question is logically who.

Well I’m not getting paid to sit on the Board and figure that out.

We can go into what qualities they should have.

I’ll ponder it till tomorrow.

I have a lot of work to finish tonight.

 

[BrianLo]

If we based the value of the company exclusively on current profits the company would be worth far less.

Though if the company were sold for parts, it would be worth far more.

I think that's the problem with Dis valuation in general. It's driven way too much by D+. That goes both ways - when the parks and theatres were closed and Wall Street felt the company was worth twice what it is now.

 

[BrianLo]

That did make me chuckle, but I have to admit that this is what makes a lot of these discussions online increasingly unbearable.

I have been around for a long time, from the days of Promote Paul Pressler, the discussions about the original proposals for DCA, and the scrapping of hand drawn animation for the likes of Chicken Little when there was a lot of discussion about the problems with Disney management. Maybe I am idealising this era somewhat, but I remember people actually engaging with the company's products and having at least somewhat thoughtful conversations about why they thought Disney was loosing sight of what made them successful in the first place. When DCA failed, we actually had reports from people who visited and photo comparisons with Tokyo DisneySea which opened around the same time.

The difference I see now is this kind of trollish barracking for the company to fail and a "burn it all down" mentality. People frame it as "concern" for the financial health of the company, but that doesn't actually track with most of the conversation and what people are highlighting as the reasons for the films losing money. Moreover, it's an unusual concern for fans to have about a company which is still bringing in billions of dollars in profits. It's also worth thinking about what solutions they would propose based on the comments on here. I'm sure I sound like an old man shouting at a cloud, but it seems like a certain toxicity that has pervaded most corners of the internet in recent years creeping into these boards.

No more visible than the contingent who are actively hoping Pixar closes. That about breaks my brain. We're about one step away from hoping Disney Animation closes and never produces a fairy tale again. Where is the line between being critical about something you love and just being toxic?

That's rhetorical, I know you and a few others can tell the difference. Particularly since there's several quite historically discerning posters involved on the pro-side of this issue.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We're about one step away from hoping Disney Animation closes and never produces a fairy tale again.

This has effectively been advocated when people talk about reducing costs and being more like other studios.

 

[TP2000]

No more visible than the contingent who are actively hoping Pixar closes.

I haven't seen anyone here say they hope Pixar closes.

But I know what I've said about the issue, and I'll repeat it again: There's no good reason in the 2020's to have two separate animation studios 400 miles apart making basically the same movies that consistently bomb at the box office and cost the Company a hundred million or more per film to make. This is not sustainable.

Instead, combine both studios into one operation on the Burbank campus. Shut down and sell off the Emeryville campus, to whichever homeless-industrial complex concern wants to turn it into "Tiny Homes" for East Bay drug addicts at a small profit while those subsidies from Sacramento still exist. Act fast though, as the fat times in Sacramento are coming to an end soon. Then layoff the weakest performers in both WDAS and PIxar, and move the survivors all to Burbank. Have a kickoff luncheon or something, with swag. Then start making animated films for American families out of the same condensed studio in Burbank. If the movie is a classic musical based on traditional literature and themes, then brand it "Walt Disney Animation". If the movie is a non-musical based on contemporary or Sci-Fi themes, then brand it "Pixar".

Congrats, you just saved the Company a few hundred million dollars per year.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Though if the company were sold for parts, it would be worth far more.

I think that's the problem with Dis valuation in general. It's driven way too much by D+. That goes both ways - when the parks and theatres were closed and Wall Street felt the company was worth twice what it is now.

Their “value” is certainly not D+

Was there a subliminal message hidden in bobs 2019 speech at sun valley that I missed that causes repeats of this D+ nonsense?

Streaming has never been proven to be a lucrative game to this point. Only look at Netflix…the rest all all distractions for the parent companies

Disney used…”used”…to make easy money off cable…but that was mostly espn.

And do we know why? Because people were hostages to pay for it whether they knew it or not and that raked easy ad money

This is not the same animal. It can be cancelled with a swipe and zero thought/effort

 

[Sir_Cliff]

No more visible than the contingent who are actively hoping Pixar closes. That about breaks my brain. We're about one step away from hoping Disney Animation closes and never produces a fairy tale again. Where is the line between being critical about something you love and just being toxic?

Yes, I really don't understand how we now want Disney to shutter one of the most successful animation studios of all time and still one of the strongest brands in animation due to the weirdness of the past few years. That's exactly the sort of knee-jerk reaction you would expect from a company that was seriously in crisis and would be a sad day for Disney and animation more generally. It would also seem to be a case study of bad corporate decisions destroying a studio by lurching from dumping content directly onto streaming and, when the mood of Wall Street on streaming changed, gutting the place just as it seemed to be clawing back its ability to earn money at the box office.

I'm also very puzzled about people suggesting they should move closer in quality to their cheaper competitors in animation. It seems like we now have supposed fans making the equivalent of the "if it's good enough for Six Flags..." argument in relation to animation. It's hard for me to compute this line of argument coming from a position of fandom.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Who wants Pixar to close?

That would be stupid.

Every single time Disney consolidates something - what’s left sucks.

And they know that. It’s just about shaving overhead to pant like dogs for Wall Street

 

[LSLS]

Yes, I really don't understand how we now want Disney to shutter one of the most successful animation studios of all time and still one of the strongest brands in animation due to the weirdness of the past few years. That's exactly the sort of knee-jerk reaction you would expect from a company that was seriously in crisis and would be a sad day for Disney and animation more generally. It would also seem to be a case study of bad corporate decisions destroying a studio by lurching from dumping content directly onto streaming and, when the mood of Wall Street on streaming changed, gutting the place just as it seemed to be clawing back its ability to earn money at the box office.

I'm also very puzzled about people suggesting they should move closer in quality to their cheaper competitors in animation. It seems like we now have supposed fans making the equivalent of the "if it's good enough for Six Flags..." argument in relation to animation. It's hard for me to compute this line of argument coming from a position of fandom.

I'm not sure many have advocated to lower the budgets on the animated movies. But, something like TLM, I think there are legit questions as to why so much was spent, and yet the CGI looked pretty meh (at least in the trailers). But I agree, no way I'd combine the two at this point.

 

[DKampy]

19.99 for my family is absolutely a savings. There is no comparison.

That said, we are waiting for TLM to go on D+ for "free".

FYI, we also waited for Top Gun to get on the stream for free. It has nothing to with the movie.

Never said it wasn’t…I was just equating to my wife and I….it is just the two of us…and our local theater is $10 a piece at night, but we usually do Sunday Matinees for $7.50…it is more if we do 3d(which we never do unless it is Avatar) or ultra screen…I am sure it makes sense for some families…which makes my point that we do not have the numbers for PVOD, I am sure there are plenty of families that contribute to the profits that way…I know a couple myself…PVOD is the new blu ray/dvd…I am sure studios factor that in to their profits

 

[Disstevefan1]

Never said it wasn’t…I was just equating to my wife and I….it is just the two of us…and our local theater is $10 a piece at night, but we usually do Sunday Matinees for $7.50…it is more if we do 3d(which we never do unless it is Avatar) or ultra screen…I am sure it makes sense for some families…which makes my point that we do not have the numbers for PVOD, I am sure there are plenty of families that contribute to the profits that way…I know a couple myself…PVOD is the new blu ray/dvd…I am sure studios factor that in to their profits

Wow, super low prices at your theater. Disney does not see much from that at all. We rarely pay for PVOD, if we really, really want to watch it before its free we purchase a digital copy, and if we really, really, really like it a DVD.

We watched Top Gun for "free", purchased a digital copy of Guardians 3. We will wait for TLM to be "free".

 

[DKampy]

Wow, super low prices at your theater. Disney does not see much from that at all. We rarely pay for PVOD, if we really, really want to watch it before its free we purchase a digital copy, and if we really, really, really like it a DVD.

We watched Top Gun for "free", purchased a digital copy of Guardians 3. We will wait for TLM to be "free ".

What does either of our viewings habits have to do with my comment…I was just pointing out that the studios are not just relying on theatrical when figuring out profits…I don’t think it is even debatable that TLM will turn a profit just factoring PVOD…we don’t have those numbers, but I believe we are going to see longer windows between theaters and turning up on a streaming service…in fact we already are

 

[Disstevefan1]

What does either of our viewings habits have to do with my comment…I was just pointing out that the studios are not just relying on theatrical when figuring out profits…I don’t think it is even debatable that TLM will turn a profit just factoring PVOD…we don’t have those numbers, but I believe we are going to see longer windows between theaters and turning up on a streaming service…in fact we already are

Agreed, given enough time, TLM will eventually break even or even turn a profit.

Disney will continue to make the movies they want to make, and the box office will be the box office, and as I stated, given enough time, movies should eventually break even or even turn a profit.

I am sure TWDC is OK with this thinking and as long as the stock price remains stable over the long term, I guess Wall Street is OK with it too.

 

[Disney Irish]

Who wants Pixar to close?

That would be stupid.

Every single time Disney consolidates something - what’s left sucks.

And they know that. It’s just about shaving overhead to pant like dogs for Wall Street

There is a whole thread about it, posters like your buddy TP have been pushing shuttering and combining Pixar into WDAS for over a year now.

Should Disney Merge Their Animation Studios?

Well?

forums.wdwmagic.com

But I think you know this since you posted in there previously....