DisneylandForward

MistaDee

Well-Known Member
Yes, that whole thing is up for grabs now. And it seems to have been redesigned a bit, and doubled in size.

If I remember right, the original plan was for a structure that had 8,000 parking spaces. But this new one has space for 17,600 parking spaces. They also gave up any plans for including a light rail/trolley stop in the complex, which was a part of the original mid 2010's concept. I would also have to imagine that space for Uber/Lyft has greatly expanded too, since that's a transit option that has only grown in the past decade, at the same time the trolley idea was cancelled.

The new version of this structure won't win any beauty contests though. You have to wonder why they keep going so cheap and utilitarian on these infrastructure projects? And it makes you wonder if they didn't learn the lessons of Michael Colglazier and try to spruce up the pedestrian bridges too. They need the locals to be charmed, not unimpressed.

w1200


Disney has an opportunity to design a really cool experience on the long pedestrian bridge leading into Disney. I think that feeling of anticipation, especially for those who visit only occasionally, can be a really powerful thing: I still vividly remember connecting through the O'Hare airport's neon tunnels as a kid:

1711506642273.png


Now obviously neon lights aren't the answer but some sort of placemaking or art that turns the long walk from the parking lot into a special narrative has the chance to really improve the experience
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
Disney has an opportunity to design a really cool experience on the long pedestrian bridge leading into Disney. I think that feeling of anticipation, especially for those who visit only occasionally, can be a really powerful thing: I still vividly remember connecting through the O'Hare airport's neon tunnels as a kid:

View attachment 775052

Now obviously neon lights aren't the answer but some sort of placemaking or art that turns the long walk from the parking lot into a special narrative has the chance to really improve the experience
They can put posters along the way for the latest Disney releases.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Disney has an opportunity to design a really cool experience on the long pedestrian bridge leading into Disney. I think that feeling of anticipation, especially for those who visit only occasionally, can be a really powerful thing: I still vividly remember connecting through the O'Hare airport's neon tunnels as a kid:

View attachment 775052

Now obviously neon lights aren't the answer but some sort of placemaking or art that turns the long walk from the parking lot into a special narrative has the chance to really improve the experience

Bingo! Thank you for getting it that "placemaking" and upgraded design doesn't have to break the bank. It just can't be as obviously cheap and basic as the Eastern Gateway 2.0 project now looks to be.

During the Clinton Administration, about 20 years before I swore off American Airlines and/or any O'hare stopover for all eternity even if it meant crawling 1,000 miles over broken glass instead of taking another American Airlines flight or anything that got near Chicago, I used to love that inter-terminal tunnel!

It was so cool in the 1990's, and it's design has held up well 30 years later. But again, due to the tragic decision making of American Airlines and the obviously corrupt operational management of O'hare airport, I'll likely never see it again.

But it was cool.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
As it pertains to the funding commitments, DisneylandForward is only being considered West of Disneyland Drive and East of Harbour. The current resort area is not being rezoned in the project - though obviously the Eastern gateway allows for that downstream small DCA expansion northward.

They still 'have to' do something with the Toy Story lot or westward Disneyland Drive to meet the commitments, in technicality.

Got it, and understood.

But if they are pressing forward with a new Eastern Gateway 2.0, and one that has now doubled in capacity, that would tell me they are still wanting to utilize the 10 acres or so of the East Esplanade bus loading area for DCA expansion. Which was a big reason they wanted the Eastern Gateway 1.0 the first time ten years ago.

As I read the documents, DisneylandForward not only opens up zoning relief for their property west of Disneyland Drive, but it also spreads that free reign zoning across their currently zoned "Theme Park" areas. So in theory, you could build a boutique hotel on the Autopia land and call it "them park use". Or build new Disneyland rides on the Disneyland Hotel parking lots and call it "theme park use". Or build new DCA rides on the current East Esplanade bus loading zones and call it "theme park use".

Maybe I read it all wrong, but DisneylandForward not only extends the "theme park" use west of Disneyland Drive, but it also extends hotel and retail and whatever else use eastward on what is now exclusively theme park area. Thus, you could build a theme park ride on what is now zoned for hotels west of Disneyland Drive, and you could also build a hotel on what is now zoned only for "theme parks" in Tomorrowland or Critter Country or "backstage" near TDA.

It seems to me from my reading of the documents that DisneylandForward opens up everything for anywhere at any time. Under the new zoning laws, anything can be a theme park and a theme park can be anywhere.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Got it, and understood.

But if they are pressing forward with a new Eastern Gateway 2.0, and one that has now doubled in capacity, that would tell me they are still wanting to utilize the 10 acres or so of the East Esplanade bus loading area for DCA expansion. Which was a big reason they wanted the Eastern Gateway 1.0 the first time ten years ago.

As I read the documents, DisneylandForward not only opens up zoning relief for their property west of Disneyland Drive, but it also spreads that free reign zoning across their currently zoned "Theme Park" areas. So in theory, you could build a boutique hotel on the Autopia land and call it "them park use". Or build new Disneyland rides on the Disneyland Hotel parking lots and call it "theme park use". Or build new DCA rides on the current East Esplanade bus loading zones and call it "theme park use".

Maybe I read it all wrong, but DisneylandForward not only extends the "theme park" use west of Disneyland Drive, but it also extends hotel and retail and whatever else use eastward on what is now exclusively theme park area. Thus, you could build a theme park ride on what is now zoned for hotels west of Disneyland Drive, and you could also build a hotel on what is now zoned only for "theme parks" in Tomorrowland or Critter Country or "backstage" near TDA.

It seems to me from my reading of the documents that DisneylandForward opens up everything for anywhere at any time. Under the new zoning laws, anything can be a theme park and a theme park can be anywhere.
I believe the existing DLRSP plan already allowed a 1000 room hotel to be built in the existing "theme park" district. So this zoning change doesn't change that as it was always the case.

What the zoning change does do is opens up the previous limited usage districts to be actual expansion westward and eastward. However as discussed previously they are still bound by the max number of new rooms and retail space from the DLRSP, as none of that changes.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
I believe the existing DLRSP plan already allowed a 1000 room hotel to be built in the existing "theme park" district. So this zoning change doesn't change that as it was always the case.

What the zoning change does do is opens up the previous limited usage districts to be actual expansion westward and eastward. However as discussed previously they are still bound by the max number of new rooms and retail space from the DLRSP, as none of that changes.
What's the max number of rooms? Is it a fixed amount? Are they close to hitting it currently?
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Looking through some old stuff, I found this one with the original Harbor access to the Eastern Gateway, through the Mcdonald's parking lot. Of course, McD's didn't want all this traffic even though it meant increased business. The after-fireworks crowd would fill the whole parking lot.

Anyway, here's my question. Why didn't Disney build a path right next to the bridge for Harbor access?

Harbor access2.jpg
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Got it, and understood.

But if they are pressing forward with a new Eastern Gateway 2.0, and one that has now doubled in capacity, that would tell me they are still wanting to utilize the 10 acres or so of the East Esplanade bus loading area for DCA expansion. Which was a big reason they wanted the Eastern Gateway 1.0 the first time ten years ago.

As I read the documents, DisneylandForward not only opens up zoning relief for their property west of Disneyland Drive, but it also spreads that free reign zoning across their currently zoned "Theme Park" areas. So in theory, you could build a boutique hotel on the Autopia land and call it "them park use". Or build new Disneyland rides on the Disneyland Hotel parking lots and call it "theme park use". Or build new DCA rides on the current East Esplanade bus loading zones and call it "theme park use".

Maybe I read it all wrong, but DisneylandForward not only extends the "theme park" use west of Disneyland Drive, but it also extends hotel and retail and whatever else use eastward on what is now exclusively theme park area. Thus, you could build a theme park ride on what is now zoned for hotels west of Disneyland Drive, and you could also build a hotel on what is now zoned only for "theme parks" in Tomorrowland or Critter Country or "backstage" near TDA.

It seems to me from my reading of the documents that DisneylandForward opens up everything for anywhere at any time. Under the new zoning laws, anything can be a theme park and a theme park can be anywhere.

Yes, you are right, it is carte Blanche with their property!

And the Eastern Gateway is ‘Disneyland Forward’ undoubtedly. I’d actually say that’s maybe the biggest original instigator behind it. I just wanted to clarify that Pandora wouldn’t fulfill that funding amount. Though Disney tries to engage in many sneaky things so I have my eye on what they try and get away with this next decade. 😂
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Looking through some old stuff, I found this one with the original Harbor access to the Eastern Gateway, through the Mcdonald's parking lot. Of course, McD's didn't want all this traffic even though it meant increased business. The after-fireworks crowd would fill the whole parking lot.

Anyway, here's my question. Why didn't Disney build a path right next to the bridge for Harbor access?

View attachment 775107
Your entrance would be a canyon as people would be behind the back wall of the hotel and the side wall of the bridge. That bridge would also have to have a tall wall to maintain it being inside the security perimeter.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I just awoke from my Disco Nap and read this little article about DisneylandForward.

Apparently this week's public meeting was met with some protests and concerned citizens. But quite frankly, I don't get the concerns. This CBS article interviewed two of the unhappy Anaheimers, a Mr. and Mrs. Robbins.

City officials were met with plenty of people voicing their concerns on the matter regarding The Happiest Place on Earth, many of whom protested outside of the meeting.

"We have trouble with the noise, the traffic. So, I can't imagine it being even closer," said Jeanine Robbins, who lives near the Toy Story parking lot where the new attractions could be built.

The noise and traffic are just part of the issue that they say the project could bring.


"We're concerned about wages, the 15 million new tourists, the 14-thousand more low-wage employees, the streets that they're going to take," said Mike Robbins.

Those comments had me scratching my head, because the neighborhood around the Toy Story lot is one of the most crime-riddled and gang-infested neighborhoods in Orange County. And Mrs. Robbins is concerned about "noise"?

So I looked them up in the White Pages, and the Robbins family actually lives about a mile west of the convention center in a more typical Anaheim neighborhood of single family tract homes. Saying they live "near" the Toy Story lot is a bit of a stretch. Mrs. Robbins seems to be concerned that Disneyland and the Resort District overall will become more popular. I wonder if someone wants to tell her the cat is already out of the bag on that one?

 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Also, the final sentence in that CBS article made me chuckle out loud. :D

"Even if council members do approve the plan on Tuesday, it would be some time before construction got underway as the project has been planned over the span of four decades."

So... that means I won't be here to see the final phases of DisneylandForward. ⚰️

Does anyone know a trustworthy 20 year old who could promise to update this thread for us until 2065?
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Disneyland Resort President Ken Potrock had an opinion piece on DisneylandForward published at the Orange County Register today:

Walt Disney knew exactly what he was doing when he partnered with the city of Anaheim to build his one-of-a-kind theme park seven decades ago. Anaheim has always had a bold vision for its future. Almost 70 years after Disneyland opened, the city has developed beyond anything Walt could have imagined – two professional sports teams, a bustling convention center, over 180 hotels, nearly 70 parks, incredible entertainment and dining experiences, and a diverse, vibrant community.

All this thanks to the vision of Anaheim leaders who knew this special city could be more than just any ordinary town.

DisneylandForward, our collaborative, public planning effort to update Disneyland Resort’s existing land-use approvals, is the next step in Anaheim’s bold vision.

We’ve been here before, working with the city and dreaming big about how we could make a lasting impact in our community. The development approvals in the 1990s laid the groundwork for Disney California Adventure park, Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa and Downtown Disney District, and established the Anaheim Resort Area as the premiere, multi-day vacation destination in Southern California.

Since then, we’ve continued to invest, bringing awe-inspiring expansions to Disneyland Resort like Cars Land, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, Avengers Campus, The Villas at Disneyland Hotel and our newly reimagined Pixar Place Hotel.

And we’ve built a best-in-class workplace experience for our thousands of cast members, with competitive-paying jobs, fully paid college tuition through our Aspire program for hourly cast, affordable healthcare and childcare for those eligible, and opportunities for mentorships, training and career advancement.

Now, it’s time to dream big again.

The theme park industry is evolving with guests seeking more integrated, immersive experiences where they can shop, dine, stay and play. The Walt Disney Company has committed to investing $60 billion in theme parks and experiences over the next decade – we have the chance to ensure a large portion comes to Anaheim.

With each new experience taking three to five years to come to fruition, DisneylandForward is an urgent need so we can determine what new stories could be told at “The Happiest Place on Earth.”

Maybe a land based on “Zootopia,” leveraging the incredible work at Shanghai Disney Resort, or the chance to celebrate Dia de Los Muertos in a “Coco”-themed experience, or as was shared during Disney’s recent shareholders meeting, the opportunity to enter the world of “Avatar” with a visit to Pandora.

DisneylandForward is not seeking any taxpayer funding from Anaheim. What we are asking for is flexibility on where and what we build on our own land using the square footage and hotel room capacity that already has been approved.

We have committed to investing a minimum of $1.9 billion in the first 10 years if DisneylandForward is approved. What could that bring Anaheim? Beyond thousands of new, competitive-paying jobs, Cal State Fullerton’s economic impact study projects increased revenues of about $15 million annually for Anaheim from each $1 billion we invest. This could help fund necessary community services including additional fire and police, parks and libraries.

But that’s not all.

We’re also committing to a unique benefits package for Anaheim and its residents, including $30 million for affordable housing, $8 million for parks, $85 million in traffic improvements and pedestrian safety, and continued investment in workforce development programs.

Over the past three years, we’ve been transparent about the project, providing many opportunities for the community to learn, discuss and provide input. And we’ve incorporated changes based on recommendations from neighbors who have made DisneylandForward a stronger project that will limit where theme park attractions can be built and require sound barriers.

In addition to robust community support, we’re thrilled that a bipartisan majority of the Orange County delegation in the California state legislature backs DisneylandForward.

I’m proud of this legacy project, which will have a positive impact on generations to come, boosting local businesses and enhancing benefits for residents as we welcome visitors from around the world to one of America’s greatest cities — a city with an unmatched vision for dreaming big.

Disneyland Resort and Anaheim have worked on a project of this magnitude only twice before, in the 1950s and 1990s — both times, we grew beyond anyone’s expectations.

The time is now for a new, bold vision – let’s make history together again.

 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Let's round up Mr. Potrock's figure of $1.9 Billion in park investment over the next ten years to $2 Billion.

During its design and construction phase 15 years ago, Cars Land was reported to have cost roughly $600 Million, and the Racers ride alone took half that budget. Adjusted for inflation from 2010 dollars, that would be $860 Million today. But assuming that inflation stays at its currently elevated (and rising again) rate for at least another year, it's probably wiser to say it's at least a $900 Million project in 2026-28 dollars.

$2 Billion would seem to buy two Cars Land style expansions (one for each park?) and a smattering of new connecting infrastructure. Or in other words, spread Resortwide; 2 E Tickets and 4 C Ticket spinners, with a half dozen new restaurants and a half dozen new shops. Opening sometime between 2028 and 2034.

Just spitballing that, to temper our expectations a bit for how long and drawn out this DisneylandForward process is likely to be, and what $2 Billion actually buys you now.
 

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