DisneylandForward

[mickEblu]

Ya, that would probably be more equivalent if the elevated launch tunnel ran behind Mission breakout.

You'd need to take out Animation for the land to make any lick of sense - which I think is supposed to happen with Pandora?

They aren't doing this, but yes in theory in the armchair imagineer world.

They re taking out Animation? I think the rumor was just everything in the backlot. This is the first I hear about Animation possibly going.

 

[BrianLo]

They re taking out Animation? I think the rumor was just everything in the backlot. This is the first I hear about Animation possibly going.

Maybe I was mis-inferring from the information? I thought Hyperion was changing but being reformatted and Animation going.

Admittedly that seems like a lot of things being removed. I would be personally somewhat surprised if Animation survived both Avengers Campus and Pandora. It just seems like such a large facility that is underused.

Maybe it's just Fairfax market I guess. I'm still confused how they make Pandora fit and-or transition.

 

[mickEblu]

Maybe I was mis-inferring from the information? I thought Hyperion was changing but being reformatted and Animation going.

Admittedly that seems like a lot of things being removed. I would be personally somewhat surprised if Animation survived both Avengers Campus and Pandora. It just seems like such a large facility that is underused.

Maybe it's just Fairfax market I guess. I'm still confused how they make Pandora fit and-or transition.

I think the rumor was everything in the backlot (and maybe Hyperion) and then you chimed in saying a version was being worked on without using the Hyperion.

I don’t think Animation survives either. I think it’ll eventually go to Avengers Campus. I’d like for it to stay though. Animation academy makes a lot of sense in a Burbank themed land. More than Hollywood. If they wanted to go that route and keep Hollywood Blvd.

I like the thought of the trolley, animation building and Hollywood Blvd/ vista looking toward Hyperion sticking around. I think it works a lot more than people give it credit for. There is a lot of good energy walking into DCA and having the trolley and/ or five and dime coming down the street playing live music. You probably lose that unless Hollywood Blvd gets absorbed into BVS.

 

[mickEblu]

Kind of cool to think DCA might have a new “best ride” in a few years if the boat ride doesn’t get budget cut to death. I suppose a case may still be made for RSR. Regardless that would give DCA two unique/ signature park exclusive E ticket attractions. I mean you could even say 5 if you count GRR, Incredicoaster and Mission Breakout. Although I wouldn’t consider the latter 3 to be in the echelon of RSR or the potential Avatar boat ride.

 

[mickEblu]

Maybe it's just Fairfax market I guess. I'm still confused how they make Pandora fit and-or transition.

I think they probably go portal style with a reveal. Everything from schmoozies on is gone on that side of the street. I’m imagining something like the Sanfransokyo entrance to Cars Land with a longer path before the reveal. Probably won’t be a huge land. As in not a lot of space for guests to actually walk around. I’d imagine the majority of it would be devoted to the show building(s) and the surrounding area we see in the concept art.

 

[BrianLo]

Kind of cool to think DCA might have a new “best ride” in a few years if the boat ride doesn’t get budget cut to death. I suppose a case may still be made for RSR. Regardless that would give DCA two unique/ signature park exclusive E ticket attractions. I mean you could even say 5 if you count GRR, Incredicoaster and Mission Breakout. Although I wouldn’t consider the latter 3 to be in the echelon of RSR or the potential Avatar boat ride.

Most of the parks are benefiting from increased differentiation now - sort of a slow recovery from the Eisner era. Tokyo (Disneyland) and WDW however really worsened the trend before him. Though DAK is great, Epcot was great.

Even SDL has a pretty good bench of headliners that are unique. Pirates, Roaring Rapids, Zootopia, this upcoming Spiderman coaster. I can't fault that property for having Tron stolen. I know people don't always love everything Shanghai did, but it was admirable to at least try something generally new.

I don't hate clones empirically, sometimes we have incredibly low lying fruit like Ratatouille or MMRR. No more poorly copied and then subsequently downgraded attractions please. At the very least put in effort.

 

[MistaDee]

There is a difference between feasible, which you originally used, and suitable. You can feasibly fit the Cosmic Rewind show building, as its ~92k sqft, in any of the DisneylandForward plots. As for whether that is suitable or not will depend on what plans Disney actually has for those plots of land, but it can fit.

As for the height limits, as was discussed elsewhere (I think the Avatar thread), its not as severe as some think it is. With the set back and facades covering it you could conceivably put any number of large structures, including a tall show building like Cosmic Rewind, in any of the DisneylandForward plots.

While I think it would be cool to have Cosmic Rewind, or a variation of it, in Avengers Campus there is nothing stopping Disney from using it with a different theme elsewhere in DisneylandForward.

I try to avoid being sanctimonious on the internet, but you've chosen to tell me what my words mean which unfortunately means the sharp pencils are coming out.

From Merriam-Webster:

1: capable of being done or carried out; a feasible plan
2: capable of being used or dealt with successfully : SUITABLE
3: REASONABLE, LIKELY
gave an explanation that seemed feasible enough

As you can see, under definition two even the dictionary gives "suitable" as the primary synonym. Despite whatever you may have chosen to infer, that was indeed my meaning.


Returning to the relevant discussion:

I don't believe it to be feasible to jam a show building with the height of Cosmic Rewind into the DisneylandForward plots because such a large show building would completely dominate the rest of the area. It would also be significantly more expensive given the stipulation requiring that Disney theme 360 degrees of the show building.

Only measuring the exact acreage of the buildings envelop (no roads, backstage, guest facing landings and frontage) Cosmic Rewind buildings are 4.5 acres. The plot in question is 3.0 acres and could not even be 100 percent optimized that way to be used for exclusively the show building(s). Certainly optimization could be achieved in the building itself because I don't think the old Universe of Energy building is used very well - with multi-level queues, but it's really not enough space without cutting corners to fit in that space.

The Pan building at TDS is 2 acres, about the correct amount of space accounting for backstage, roads, etc.

I don't know why you would measure the entirety of the universe of energy building for these purposes, we're just talking about fitting the showbuilding into the space, which I measure as 1.5 acres.

I also don't know how you're getting 3 acres when measuring the plot in question; leaving generous buffer for backstage roads and other facilities I measure the useable space behind ToT at 4.5 acres.

You can quibble about the exact measurements but even using your 3 acres, we could fit the entirety of the external showbuilding for Cosmic rewind TWICE into the expansion pad. By my measurement you could do so twice and have another 1.5 acres to make an elaborate queue and preshow.

 

[BrianLo]

I don't know why you would measure the entirety of the universe of energy building for these purposes, we're just talking about fitting the showbuilding into the space, which I measure as 1.5 acres.

I'm a bit confused - I mean... that is the attraction, is it not? And ironically one of the issues is it still lacks enough queue space. I'm sure it can be utilized better, but the attraction as it exists in Epcot has a 4.5 acre building. A terribly shaped one at that. You can't exactly just lop off more than half the attraction and call it the same attraction.

The coaster is still inside the Universe of Energy building.

I also don't know how you're getting 3 acres when measuring the plot in question; leaving generous buffer for backstage roads and other facilities I measure the useable space behind ToT at 4.5 acres.

Can you demonstrate what you are measuring? I think you might be cutting more backstage buildings than I was.

 

[mickEblu]

One thing we do know is that if there is any sort of grand reveal for Avatar land it probably has to be placed behind the Monorail track. Not that that’s saying much as it isn’t located very deep into the backlot as it’s right in front of Monsters Inc. All kind of makes you wonder why it would be going in the backlot and not Simba lot? Obviously the answer is that it must be easier or quicker to get started on this project in Hollywoodland but why? The bridge over DL drive and perhaps having to shut down the street? Maybe they can’t do that until the new parking structure is built? Or maybe they have more concrete plans for the Simba lot than we realize? The DTD parking lot being unavailable? The original DTD lot is usually pretty empty.

 

[Disney Irish]

I try to avoid being sanctimonious on the internet, but you've chosen to tell me what my words mean which unfortunately means the sharp pencils are coming out.

From Merriam-Webster:

1: capable of being done or carried out; a feasible plan
2: capable of being used or dealt with successfully : SUITABLE
3: REASONABLE, LIKELY
gave an explanation that seemed feasible enough

As you can see, under definition two even the dictionary gives "suitable" as the primary synonym. Despite whatever you may have chosen to infer, that was indeed my meaning.


Returning to the relevant discussion:

I don't believe it to be feasible to jam a show building with the height of Cosmic Rewind into the DisneylandForward plots because such a large show building would completely dominate the rest of the area. It would also be significantly more expensive given the stipulation requiring that Disney theme 360 degrees of the show building.



I don't know why you would measure the entirety of the universe of energy building for these purposes, we're just talking about fitting the showbuilding into the space, which I measure as 1.5 acres.

I also don't know how you're getting 3 acres when measuring the plot in question; leaving generous buffer for backstage roads and other facilities I measure the useable space behind ToT at 4.5 acres.

You can quibble about the exact measurements but even using your 3 acres, we could fit the entirety of the external showbuilding for Cosmic rewind TWICE into the expansion pad. By my measurement you could do so twice and have another 1.5 acres to make an elaborate queue and preshow.

Maybe we're talking past each other here as I don't see the same limitations you do. As I don't think they have to "jam" the show building into any of the DisneylandForward plots. And given that the plot behind M:BO is much smaller than any of the plots for DisneylandForward I don't see how its the ONLY place that a show building the size of Cosmic Rewind can go.

So what is the height of Cosmic Rewind show building? And what is the height limitation that you think DisneylandForward has that would prevent it going into any of those plots? And have you accounted for the set backs that can be used to place larger buildings? If you don't mind can you use like Google maps or something to draw it out so its clear.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think you might be cutting more backstage buildings than I was.

I don't think they are accounting for the backstage area that is unmovable and just assuming its all usable. I'm sure you're counting about the same as I am, but this is about the usable space behind M:BO that I figure, give or take a few thousand feet its ~3.3 acres -

You cannot go into M:BO area more as that would block the Trolley Barn and other access to M:BO. Cannot go into Cars Land area more as that would block access to the new admin building behind Luigi's and the backstage access gate. And cannot go lower or to the right more as that would block the service road and the buildings to the right. So ~3.3 acres is about all you're going to get. So I don't see how its 4 or more acres as the poster is saying. So you could fit just the show building for Cosmic Rewind, but the queue, loading/unloading area, and the launch track would have to go someplace else. Hyperion maybe for some of it?

 

[mickEblu]

An E ticket Avatar boat ride and a version of Cosmic Rewind would completely change the perception of DCA.

 

[BrianLo]

I don't think they are accounting for the backstage area that is unmovable and just assuming its all usable. I'm sure you're counting about the same as I am, but this is about the usable space behind M:BO that I figure, give or take a few thousand feet its ~3.3 acres -

View attachment 787790

You cannot go into M:BO area more as that would block the Trolley Barn and other access to M:BO. Cannot go into Cars Land area more as that would block access to the new admin building behind Luigi's and the backstage access gate. And cannot go lower or to the right more as that would block the service road and the buildings to the right. So ~3.3 acres is about all you're going to get. So I don't see how its 4 or more acres as the poster is saying. So you could fit just the show building for Cosmic Rewind, but the queue, loading/unloading area, and the launch track would have to go someplace else. Hyperion maybe for some of it?

Ya, you’d still require an access roadway behind Radiator Springs and Luigi’s on the left hand side. That’s why I was coming up a bit shorter.

 

[October82]

An E ticket Avatar boat ride and a version of Cosmic Rewind would completely change the perception of DCA.

Could you say more?

My impression is that the average person thinks of DCA as a slightly more thrilling dumping ground for more mature IPs that don't quite fit in Disneyland. Both would seem to me to add to that perception rather than change it.

Especially if we're also talking about the continual removal of placemaking work (thinking mainly about the Red Car Trolley) done from ~2004-2012.

 

[Jiggsawpuzzle35]

An E ticket Avatar boat ride and a version of Cosmic Rewind would completely change the perception of DCA.

Although I did enjoy Na’vi River Journey, my kids and the rest of my party thought it was slow and boring. If we do get a water based Avatar ride, I hope it’s like Pirates at Shanghai. I would also like to see a something similar to Flight of Passage hwre too. That ride was amazing. If people are complaining of the potential height of the Cosmic Rewind building, they can always dig down so it isn’t as high. Kind of like SoFi Stadium.

 

[TheRealSkull]

An E ticket Avatar boat ride and a version of Cosmic Rewind would completely change the perception of DCA.

Wouldn't surprise me if it is in the works. They've already changed the ride system once for the proposed Avengers E ticket (from jetpacks to what looks like a trackless ride or something idk).

 

[mickEblu]

Could you say more?

My impression is that the average person thinks of DCA as a slightly more thrilling dumping ground for more mature IPs that don't quite fit in Disneyland. Both would seem to me to add to that perception rather than change it.

Especially if we're also talking about the continual removal of placemaking work (thinking mainly about the Red Car Trolley) done from ~2004-2012.

I think the average person probably feels like there isn't as much to do at DCA as there is at Disneyland and that not enough of the attractions at DCA match Disneyland's quality. In this regard I think a world class indoor coaster and boat ride would completely change that perception. All of a sudden rides like Soarin, Grizzly River Run or Spiderman feel more like a nice bonus as opposed to something you have to ride to make DCA a full day.

I think us Disney parks enthusiasts make up the majority of people who feel that DCA is an IP dumping ground. I don't think adding one or both of the above attractions can be viewed as anything but a net positive for DCA. It's already an "IP dumping ground." Might as well be one with two more world class attractions, more shade and beautiful surroundings. The Backlot would be getting quite the glow up if they build the Avatar land we see in the concept art.

With all of that said, I think IP dumping ground (a term I have used myself) might be a little too harsh or at the very least we have to realize that Disneyland is on its way to becoming one as well even if its just a little more clever about it. Nemo and Buzz in TL? Tiana taking over NOS? Galaxies Edge? Even Toontown especially when you consider the primary motivation was to give us a Roger Rabbit attraction. It just feels less in your face at Disneyland because of the brilliant design of the park and the broader themed lands.

Hoping they keep the trolley, Hollywood blvd and all the entertainment that comes with it as I feel that losing any of that would be a loss.

 

[mickEblu]

Wouldn't surprise me if it is in the works. They've already changed the ride system once for the proposed Avengers E ticket (from jetpacks to what looks like a trackless ride or something idk).

This is what I'm hoping for. That they see the guest reaction to Cosmic Rewind and pivot. I wonder how much having Mission BO and therefore having to change Cosmic Rewinds theme (making it not a clone) would dissuade them from moving forward though.

 

[TheRealSkull]

This is what I'm hoping for. That they see the guest reaction to Cosmic Rewind and pivot. I wonder how much having Mission BO and therefore having to change Cosmic Rewinds theme (making it not a clone) would dissuade them from moving forward though.

Ehhh no different from taking the Mater's Junkyard Jamboree and cloning it in Florida and Tokyo to Toy Story and Big Hero 6. But that's on a much smaller scale, yes, but I think the point still stands that they could do it. The ride in Florida is made up of screens primarily, therefore making it easy to switch out to another IP if needed, maybe when Guardians is outdated eventually.

 

[J4546]

i hope they dont make Cosmic Rewin in CA, I like the USA parks having exclusive attractions on each coaste. keep clones in different countries