DisneylandForward

[chadwpalm]

I didn't watch the whole meeting, as it was way too long.

Yeah, I tortured myself with the whole thing, though when the residents were giving their comments I'd only unmute it to see if they were for or against, then go back to doing other things.

The only concession from Disney I thought was a bad move for them was the complaint hotline. Basically, during construction there will be a hotline for residents to complain about noise. The council wanted to be assured that hotline would be active forever for noise complaints. I feel like that will be abused and Disney will regret agreeing to that lol.

 

[Disney Irish]

The only reason not to impose a modest gate tax is continue to lord it over Disney in exchange for concessions.

If I were Anaheim, leveraging it to ensure Disney upholds the spirit of the promises in the plan (massive, many billion dollar investment that leads to huge employment increases) and not just the letter of the agreement (~$2bn on more or less whatever they want) sounds like a great idea.

Except it wouldn't be just Disney, as you can't just tax them alone. Once you pull that trigger its for any gate, including Honda and Angels Stadium. And that would start hitting locals, its the reason why they haven't done it yet. It'll be very unpopular with locals.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yeah, I tortured myself with the whole thing, though when the residents were giving their comments I'd only unmute it to see if they were for or against, then go back to doing other things.

The only concession from Disney I thought was a bad move for them was the complaint hotline. Basically, during construction there will be a hotline for residents to complain about noise. The council wanted to be assured that hotline would be active forever for noise complaints. I feel like that will be abused and Disney will regret agreeing to that lol.

I did that for the workshop and past council meetings, but knew this one would be way too long. So I only tuned in for the beginning and the vote.

I'm sure they'll get lovely comments on the complaint line daily lol.

 

[CastAStone]

Except it wouldn't be just Disney, as you can't just tax them alone. Once you pull that trigger its for any gate, including Honda and Angels Stadium. And that would start hitting locals, its the reason why they haven't done it yet. It'll be very unpopular with locals.

Thank you! I didn’t realize they couldn’t separate them from sports etc.

 

[CastAStone]

I did that for the workshop and past council meetings, but knew this one would be way too long. So I only tuned in for the beginning and the vote.

I'm sure they'll get lovely comments on the complaint line daily lol.

I turned it off when public comment started. I doubted I’d learn anything new and it was pretty clear it would pass at least 6-1.

 

[Disney Irish]

Thank you! I didn’t realize they couldn’t separate them from sports etc.

Its the reason why the other name is "Entertainment Tax", as it would tax any large entertainment venue.

 

[Disney Irish]

I turned it off when public comment started. I doubted I’d learn anything new and it was pretty clear it would pass at least 6-1.

I watched a few of the public comments, like the one from the Disney conspiracy guy who dresses with Disney stuff all over himself. He is always fun to watch, I've seen him many times at the Council meetings always talking about Disney conspiracies in his "binders". Lol.

 

[el_super]

And we can quibble over what is an E-Ticket/C-Ticket; the fact is MMRR, MFSR, ROTR, and Spider-Man taken together dramatically expanded ride capacity vs what was there before (nothing, nothing, petting zoo, Heimlich) and represent significant expansions.

Oh yeah no quibbling from me .... just shows that the money goes to less and less these days. Once they get their new parking structure, security area, bus depot, new trams and busses and all those bridges they want built... there won't be all that much for attractions.

 

[CastAStone]

Oh yeah no quibbling from me .... just shows that the money goes to less and less these days. Once they get their new parking structure, security area, bus depot, new trams and busses and all those bridges they want built... there won't be all that much for attractions.

This I agree with, but that’s a floor, not a ceiling. Realistically I’d be shocked if Disney doesn’t invest 5-8 billion+ into DSRP areas over the next decade including hotels, DVC, infrastructure, dining, retail, and yes, theme park expansion.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh yeah no quibbling from me .... just shows that the money goes to less and less these days. Once they get their new parking structure, security area, bus depot, new trams and busses and all those bridges they want built... there won't be all that much for attractions.

The $1.9B is specifically for theme park expansion/attractions, hotels/retail, etc. That is over and above the EGW project, so none of that will be spent on the parking structure, security area, transportation hub, etc.

 

[Disney Irish]

This I agree with, but that’s a floor, not a ceiling. Realistically I’d be shocked if Disney doesn’t invest 5-8 billion+ into DSRP areas over the next decade including hotels, DVC, infrastructure, dining, retail, and yes, theme park expansion.

Exactly, and as mentioned the $1.9B is not for the infrastructure stuff for the EGW.

 

[el_super]

This I agree with, but that’s a floor, not a ceiling. Realistically I’d be shocked if Disney doesn’t invest 5-8 billion+ into DSRP areas over the next decade including hotels, DVC, infrastructure, dining, retail, and yes, theme park expansion.

Absolutely it is a floor. They would have only put out a number they were comfortable proving they were already committed to. Which is why it's far easier to assume a lot of that is going to go to infrastructure projects and entertainment offerings they were already planning.

Don't forget though... Part of the brilliance of DisneylandForward is being able to add incrementally to the resort instead of committing to building a new park. New parks are expensive. Building a new ride or a new area attached to the existing ones is cheaper. That's why they wanted to go this route... to avoid costly expansion.

 

[SSG]

From the fact sheet at the meeting:

Minimum of $1.9 billion invested, with potential for up to $2.5 billion invested, within first 10 years of approval.

If investment doesn’t reach $2.5 billion in 10 years, Disney pays $5 million to Anaheim.

Investment would go toward theme park attractions, entertainment, lodging, shopping and dining in areas west of Disneyland Drive and at what’s today the Toy Story Parking Area.

Minimum investment only covers visitor attractions — spending on parking, road improvements and bridges would be separate.

 

[MistaDee]

Honestly though, as much as many would like a huge E-ticket sprawling coaster at DLR, a smaller kid friendly coaster like Wandering Oakens would add a lot to the ride profile of the resort.

Would it? I'd consider this to be a wasted opportunity considering how forgettable Wandering Oakens seems to be. Ragins Spirits at TDS is not particularly special either and between Mickey's Sky School and the Gadget-Coaster in ToonTown I feel like the smaller kid friendly coaster has not been a strength for Disney. Even 7 Dwarves at WdW seems to be a pretty poor experience.

Except it wouldn't be just Disney, as you can't just tax them alone. Once you pull that trigger its for any gate, including Honda and Angels Stadium. And that would start hitting locals, its the reason why they haven't done it yet. It'll be very unpopular with locals.

I don't see why this would necessarily be true: in the same way that theme park uses are defined in a distinct manner for zoning purposes, I see no reason why Anaheim couldn't write a gate tax policy that specifically applies only to theme park gates. Certainly Disney lawyers and lobbyists would fight tooth and nail but there's nothing I'm aware of that would make a theme park gate tax impossible - could be wrong tho!

This I agree with, but that’s a floor, not a ceiling. Realistically I’d be shocked if Disney doesn’t invest 5-8 billion+ into DSRP areas over the next decade including hotels, DVC, infrastructure, dining, retail, and yes, theme park expansion.

At first I thought gee that's a little overly optimistic, but then I thought about the $60 Billion Parks & Resorts investment Iger announced. If we assume that's split even somewhat evenly between:
1. WDW
2. DL
3. HKDL
4. Shanghai
5. Paris
6. Cruises
7. DVC & Hotels
8. Retail
9. Infrastructure
10. Disney wastefulness & inflation allowance

That still leaves $6 billion per category. Between that and the activist shareholders advocating for increased focus on the parks division I'm hopeful we'll see Disneyland get significantly more than the $2B minimum outlined for Disneyland Forward.

That'd make for about 6 galaxy's edge scale lands? I see either 3 or 4 lands in the expansion pad which would leave enough for a major new land in DCA and maybe a major revamp of the autopia/subs plot.

If all that were to happen in the next ten years I'd be a very happy camper, but now it seems way too optimistic - who knows!

 

[Disney Irish]

Would it? I'd consider this to be a wasted opportunity considering how forgettable Wandering Oakens seems to be. Ragins Spirits at TDS is not particularly special either and between Mickey's Sky School and the Gadget-Coaster in ToonTown I feel like the smaller kid friendly coaster has not been a strength for Disney. Even 7 Dwarves at WdW seems to be a pretty poor experience.

Mickey's Sky School? Don't you mean Goofy's Sky School.

Anyways I do feel that another kid friendly coaster that has a similar height requirement as Gadget's would add to their ride profile. Now if they want to redo Oaken's or do something else I think its needed. Just my opinion.

I don't see why this would necessarily be true: in the same way that theme park uses are defined in a distinct manner for zoning purposes, I see no reason why Anaheim couldn't write a gate tax policy that specifically applies only to theme park gates. Certainly Disney lawyers and lobbyists would fight tooth and nail but there's nothing I'm aware of that would make a theme park gate tax impossible - could be wrong tho!

Nope, as every time it comes up its always a gate tax for ANY venue larger than 15,000 capacity. Again you cannot just write a tax for just one company. If Anaheim could have done it they would have a long time ago. And it would be challenged and overturned by the court.

 

[fgmnt]

Don't forget though... Part of the brilliance of DisneylandForward is being able to add incrementally to the resort instead of committing to building a new park.

Number 1 reason I don’t think DLF ends with a third gate. This is the last easy expansion area the company can build on in Anaheim. Why try to do a blowout in the next 10 years when you can slowly walk out expansion over the next 20-25 years? Northeastern areas of both gates probably get huge projects within the next 20-25 years as well, so I think the land west of Disneyland Drive doesn’t fill in until the 100th.

 

[truecoat]

Apparently he was way off on the math. I think he might even mention that he was off in one of his later vlogs. But yes you have more than enough room for Frozen land there. I just think with land being at premium at DLR it’s a bad choice when you can just put a Frozen ride in Fantasyland. We don’t need the whole land with the kiddie coaster that Hong Kong got. Hong Kong DL needed it. We really don’t.

Now if we have to sacrifice any existing attractions (other than half of Autopia) you can count me out.

Here's a reminder of the size of the HK Frozen land compared to the Simba parking lot.

 

[J4546]

Here's a reminder of the size of the HK Frozen land compared to the Simba parking lot.

View attachment 780143

is that with all the backstage area as well?

 

[mickEblu]

Here's a reminder of the size of the HK Frozen land compared to the Simba parking lot.

View attachment 780143

Wow the videos are deceiving but I suppose some of that is the sense of scale the natural surroundings/ mountains create

 

[truecoat]

is that with all the backstage area as well?

I didn't include these areas in red but they would be marginal additions.