DisneylandForward

[TP2000]

My simpleminded version (no numbers!) is that Disney is presenting what they think will get approved, then will pay the penalty and do what they want.

My dear lady, simple minds like you and I have are the best for situations like these.

And it's exactly what you think it is.

By newly designating almost anything Disney does on their property as "Theme Park Use" and then newly designating almost the entire property as a "Theme Park District", DisneylandForward allows Disney to put practically anything on any part of their property they want without worrying about the old zoning requirements from 1996 (not neccessarily a bad thing, if Walt-esque showmanship and good taste prevail), and Anaheim gets a tidy sum of tens of millions of dollars from Disney on top of the 60% of the tax money that funds the city's general fund annually.

And as the kickback cherry on top of that payoff sundae, ten years from now Anaheim City Hall gets a check for $5 Million from Disney when no one is looking to do whatever they please with; swanky new office remodels, staff "retreats" to Catalina or Lake Arrowhead, lavish Christmas parties, a big new Lincoln for the mayor purchased by the motor pool, etc., etc.

 

[Disney Irish]

No, I'm not missing the point. That's been my point all along; DisneylandForward allows Disney to do whatever they want with their existing property, and they'll no longer have to abide by the 1996 planning agreement that segregated hotels into one area, parking into another, theme parks over there where they've always been, etc.

But by classifying anything and everything as Theme Park, as DisneylandForward does, they can move those millions of unused square footage from the 1996 zoning agreement all over the place. That's not neccesarily bad, it could turn out great.



Yes, I know. I've known that since the first time I read through all the planning documents a week ago. Those planning documents for DisneylandForward are not exactly a saucy read like Valley Of the Dolls, but it's fairly straightforward and is easy to understand. And I understand exactly what DisneylandForward does, and what it doesn't.

You were the one who asserted that there would be $600 Million given by Disney to Anaheim for citywide purposes, when there will only be $133 Million given to Anaheim for five specific projects outlined above.

And that $5 Million "penalty" Disney will pay to Anaheim when they don't quite hit $2.5 Billion in construction costs 10 years from now? That's a good, old-fashioned political kickback to city hall. It should be illegal, as we all know what they're doing, but since they are bold enough to put the kickback right into the planning documents there's not much anyone can do. Keep that bar tab at The Ranch going until at least 2036!

So yes DisneylandForward allows them to build WHERE they want. But it doesn't throw out the 1996 agreement completely. In fact what it does is extends the same agreement until 2064 just without the zoning blocks of WHERE they can build.

So by you touting numbers like "800K Sqft of new combined conference space, retail, and dining", that is factually wrong as they aren't permitted to do that. Because they cannot just say "I have 3M more Sqft of usable land now I can do what I want just by paying a $5M fine", because they can't. What they can do is still limited by type of development they can do even after the zoning has been removed.

But what they could do as an example is build say a 2 hotel complex with 1500 rooms and ~100k Sqft retail space in Toy Story lot which they weren't able to do before. Or, since you keep talking about hotel rooms, they could yes even build a new 1000 room hotel in GE if they wanted.

Again the point is the max number of rooms, the square footage limitations, etc. all that remains the same, its just the limitation of WHERE they can build them that is removed.

 

[NobodyElse]

For some reason, every time I see that "Not a Part" reference to the Emerald / Pan Pacific / Paradise Pier / Pixar Place Hotel site, I can't help be reminded of the old Homeless Hare cartoon.

 

[mickEblu]

Some interesting stuff here from Hey Brickey. Apparently World of Frozen from Hong Kong fits perfectly into the Stitch lot and he makes a good case for where everything would be placed. His conspiracy theory is that they duped Hong Kong into do the research and development knowing it would end up right in the Stitch lot. Not sure I’d go that far. Anyway, it’s fun to postulate.

I do hope he’s wrong though. World of Frozen is stunning but a big part of that is the natural surroundings with those lush mountains. Can/ would Disney be able to come close in replicating that?

More importantly, with land being at such a premium at DLR that’s a lot of space for the 4th take of a mediocre boat ride and a dressed up Gadgets Go Coaster. Granted, Frozen is a huge IP and should have representation at DLR but I’d be ok with just the boat ride as part of a Fantasyland expansion at Disneyland proper. With that said, the question becomes if not World of Frozen than what? I’d certainly prefer World of Frozen to a Zootopia land. Also, it’s not like Disney designs lands with lots of attractions anymore. Is it even realistic to think they could/ would do more than 2-3 attractions on the Stitch lot?

Of course, what they should put there is something on the level of Hagrids at USO. A sprawling speederbike coaster. Endor would be a seamless transition from Critter Country and give the OG trilogy some much needed love.

 

[McMickeyWorld]

Some interesting stuff here from Hey Brickey. Apparently World of Frozen from Hong Kong fits perfectly into the Stitch lot and he makes a good case for where everything would be placed. His conspiracy theory is that they duped Hong Kong into do the research and development knowing it would end up right in the Stitch lot. Not sure I’d go that far. Anyway, it’s fun to postulate.

I do hope he’s wrong though. World of Frozen is stunning but a big part of that is the natural surroundings with those lush mountains. Can/ would Disney be able to come close in replicating that?

More importantly, with land being at such a premium at DLR that’s a lot of space for the 4th take of a mediocre boat ride and a dressed up Gadgets Go Coaster. Granted, Frozen is a huge IP and should have representation at DLR but I’d be ok with just the boat ride as part of a Fantasyland expansion at Disneyland proper. With that said, the question becomes if not World of Frozen than what? I’d certainly prefer World of Frozen to a Zootopia land. Also, it’s not like Disney designs lands with lots of attractions anymore. Is it even realistic to think they could/ would do more than 2-3 attractions on the Stitch lot?

Of course, what they should put there is something on the level of Hagrids at USO. A sprawling speederbike coaster. Endor would be a seamless transition from Critter Country and give the OG trilogy some much needed love.

he sold the idea very well, but assuming Google's measurements are close to reality, Frozen ends up being much smaller in comparison. It's somewhat unfortunate, but hey, in the end, if Disney sets its mind to it, we could get something on the scale of Fantasy Springs

 

[mickEblu]

She sold the idea very well, but assuming Google's measurements are close to reality, Frozen ends up being much smaller in comparison. It's somewhat unfortunate, but hey, in the end, if Disney sets its mind to it, we could get something on the scale of Fantasy Springs

She? Haha

So he messed up the Google earth measurements? Or maybe he included more of the surrounding area?

I’d prefer Fantasy Springs to World of Frozen.

 

[Disney Irish]

She? Haha

So he messed up the Google earth measurements? Or maybe he included more of the surrounding area?

I’d prefer Fantasy Springs to World of Frozen.

Its not a one-for-one area as Frozen is square whereas Stitch is rectangular, but the size does work. If you just plop the land as is it would cut off DT Dr., and leave a bunch of area left over in Stitch to do other things with. Which we know they wouldn't care about if they are using the entire area for construction anyways. So it does have some merit to it, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening just as is. If they were to bring Frozen here I would imagine they would build it to the area not just a straight copy/paste of the land.

 

[mickEblu]

Its not a one-for-one area as Frozen is square whereas Stitch is rectangular, but the size does work. If you just plop the land as is it would cut off DT Dr., and leave a bunch of area left over in Stitch to do other things with. Which we know they wouldn't care about if they are using the entire area for construction anyways. So it does have some merit to it, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening just as is. If they were to bring Frozen here I would imagine they would build it to the area not just a straight copy/paste of the land.

Yeah obviously it would need to be reconfigured. Anyway, just bring the boat ride to a Fantasyland expansion and call it a day.

 

[mickEblu]

With land being at such a premium at DLR I don't think that the Stitch lot is a good use of space for a ride that can fit seamlessly into one of your existing lands. They should save those areas for lands and attractions that provide something unique experientially and visually. We don't need Arendelle and the kiddie coaster. Granted that would take a good chunk or all of Autopia + the Motorboat cruise area. Now as a Disneyland purist that worries me of course because that's a lot of classic DL being hacked up. Especially if/when a monorail reroute, massive tree removals, and Nemo lagoon reconfiguration/ or removal is involved.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yeah obviously it would need to be reconfigured. Anyway, just bring the boat ride to a Fantasyland expansion and call it a day.

With land being at such a premium at DLR I don't think that the Stitch lot is a good use of space for a ride that can fit seamlessly into one of your existing lands. They should save those areas for lands and attractions that provide something unique experientially and visually. We don't need Arendelle and the kiddie coaster. Granted that would take a good chunk or all of Autopia + the Motorboat cruise area. Now as a Disneyland purist that worries me of course because that's a lot of classic DL being hacked up. Especially if/when a monorail reroute, massive tree removals, and Nemo lagoon reconfiguration/ or removal is involved.

Well there was the rumor many years ago as you may remember of the Arendelle mini-land taking over the FL Theater. But really after Frozen at HK, I would think they want to do something more substantial with the IP than just a mini-land at this point.

Anyways I don't see anything wrong with bringing the coaster over, as DLR could use more coasters even if they aren't thrill type coasters.

 

[mickEblu]

Well there was the rumor many years ago as you may remember of the Arendelle mini-land taking over the FL Theater. But really after Frozen at HK, I would think they want to do something more substantial with the IP than just a mini-land at this point.

Anyways I don't see anything wrong with bringing the coaster over, as DLR could use more coasters even if they aren't thrill type coasters.

Don’t think you’d have room for the coaster at DL proper. At least not in a way that wouldn’t look terrible with the Matterhorn right there too.

 

[Disney Irish]

Don’t think you’d have room for the coaster at DL proper. At least not in a way that didn’t look terrible with the Matterhorn right there too.

Sure, but I thought you were for not touching "classic Disneyland" as much as possible.

Plus no one said it was an either/or, why not put a smaller coaster in the FL Theater area AND add a larger one in the Stitch Lot area with a different IP.

 

[mickEblu]

Sure, but I thought you were for not touching "classic Disneyland" as much as possible.

Plus no one said it was an either/or, why not put a smaller coaster in the FL Theater area AND add a larger one in the Stitch Lot area with a different IP.

Oh so you were talking about the Stitch lot? You think that’s a good use of space?

I am. Trying to be objective though and think about what makes sense from a resort wide perspective moving forward while considering the lack of expansion areas (especially if they don’t a third park). They already got rid of my favorite ride and have been hacking up NOS which I considered holy ground at DL. I don’t quite hold Autopia and the surrounding area in that regard but I would be concerned if that’s where they decide to put Frozen.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh so you were talking about the Stitch lot? You think that’s a good use of space?

I am. Trying to be objective though and think about what makes sense from a resort wide perspective moving forward while considering the lack of expansion areas (especially if they don’t a third park). They already got rid of my favorite ride and have been hacking up NOS which I considered holy ground at DL. I don’t quite hold Autopia and the surrounding area in that regard but I would be concerned if that’s where they decide to put Frozen.

I think that once this proposal passes in May that we'll have many years to debate all the future projects they will come up with.

In my honest opinion I don't think they will touch Autopia/Subs until they are ready for TL redo, and unless that gets announced at this years D23 I think we're looking at another 10 years before its done.

I think they'll concentrate on expanding DCA first by doing the Eastern Gateway and bridge, as that is a needed domino to fall first. Which will allow them to expand and retheme the backlot, probably with Pandora.

I don't think we'll see them crossing DL Dr until sometime in the 2030s. Beyond that is anyone's guess.

 

[mickEblu]

I think that once this proposal passes in May that we'll have many years to debate all the future projects they will come up with.

These are the juicy takes I'm here for. I think I'm finally ready to become a Premium Member.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

She sold the idea very well, but assuming Google's measurements are close to reality, Frozen ends up being much smaller in comparison.

You are correct, the youtuber's measurements are way off. Your image is accurate (I checked the measurements). I can vouch for Google Earth's measurements being close to reality (not the elevations though due a variety of things).

 

[TP2000]

Might as well put this news here, as it directly involves DisneylandForward...

Anaheim has begun implementing changes after the multiple scandals surrounding Anaheim politicians and Disney executives, including;

• TDA's Director of Government Relations, Ms. Carrie Nocella, must register as a paid lobbyist with the city.
• Anaheim leaders must maintain and publicly release their schedules, including who they are meeting with.
• Anaheim leaders must only use city-issued phones to conduct city business with.
• Implement additional good governance procedures most honest governments already use.

Anaheim Begins Implementing Changes From Fall of Reform Debates

City officials are implementing and rolling out reforms in the wake of Anaheim's corruption scandal after demands for change by residents.

voiceofoc.org

 

[DCBaker]

The next DisneylandForward Planning Commission Workshop is scheduled for Monday, February 26 at 5pm.

More information can be found on the City of Anaheim website.

DisneylandForward | Anaheim, CA - Official Website

The city of Anaheim and the Disneyland Resort are looking at updating the mix of uses in the Anaheim Resort.

www.anaheim.net

 

[Phroobar]

For some reason, every time I see that "Not a Part" reference to the Emerald / Pan Pacific / Paradise Pier / Pixar Place Hotel site, I can't help be reminded of the old Homeless Hare cartoon.

View attachment 767160

It is right up there with the Matterhorn will collapse if the sub lagoon is drained.

 

[TP2000]

The next DisneylandForward Planning Commission Workshop is scheduled for Monday, February 26 at 5pm.

View attachment 769566

More information can be found on the City of Anaheim website.

DisneylandForward | Anaheim, CA - Official Website

The city of Anaheim and the Disneyland Resort are looking at updating the mix of uses in the Anaheim Resort.

www.anaheim.net

So, has anyone who lives locally ever been to one of these things? It would be interesting to hear a report from what these are like in person.

Are there Disney reps there schmoozing everyone? Do they have good snacks? Or just weak coffee and stale cookies?

Does anyone who lives in OC want to go and report back for us? It could be fun.