News Disneyland to give Snow White’s Scary Adventures dark ride a major facelift in 2020

[Californian Elitist]

Correct

So everyone believes fiction must accurately reflect reality?

You’re confusing people believing fiction should accurately reflect reality with people commenting on, critiquing, analyzing, etc. fiction in ways that relate to how we actually experience the world. That doesn’t mean that people believe these stories should look like real life.

If people actually believed this, books, films, and shows like Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, etc. wouldn’t have the cult followings they have now.

 

[mickEblu]

No. Absolutely not. Some of us HAVE been trying to talk about the implications for the ride and the historical context of cultural changes because we DON'T think the article is ridiculous. Trying to lump any useful discussion into an either/or like this is disingenuous and factually incorrect.

Honestly at this point, if you think that any discussion over the context of the ride is ridiculous, you shouldn't be posting in this thread. Just stop reading it.



This is a serious misunderstanding of the problem here. Specifically with Snow White, assault of that nature *IS* the reality. Seeing that on display in a theme park attraction can snap a viewer out of the entertainment of the moment and right back into their own reality with some not great feelings associated with it.

When a ride starts bringing up hurtful memories, people are less inclined to ride it and want to see it replaced. That's when it stops being entertainment.

And before this gets out of hand: I realize that people do need to take responsibility for their own feelings and their own mental well being. Not everything needs to change, and certainly not right away. We are far away from a tipping point where Snow White needs to be changed or closed, but changing the ride in this fashion, in the midst of a campaign toward inclusion, is definitely hard to understand.

The article is ridiculous.

 

[CaptinEO]

This is a serious misunderstanding of the problem here. Specifically with Snow White, assault of that nature *IS* the reality. Seeing that on display in a theme park attraction can snap a viewer out of the entertainment of the moment and right back into their own reality with some not great feelings associated with it.

When a ride starts bringing up hurtful memories, people are less inclined to ride it and want to see it replaced. That's when it stops being entertainment.

And before this gets out of hand: I realize that people do need to take responsibility for their own feelings and their own mental well being. Not everything needs to change, and certainly not right away. We are far away from a tipping point where Snow White needs to be changed or closed, but changing the ride in this fashion, in the midst of a campaign toward inclusion, is definitely hard to understand.

So we have Cinderella who has an abusive family, Mr Toad who is a Drunk Driver, Darth Vader who killed his own wife and murdered a group of children, Pinocchio was used by an entertainer to make money, Snow White's step mother who is trying to murder her own step daugher because she looks better than her, Rapunzel who is isolated by her mother (a form of child abuse), Tarzan who's parents are killed by a wild animal, Bambi who's Mom was shot, Star Wars which is a group of rogue soldiers having to defeat a corrupt and violent government. None of those can bring bad memories?

Should everything be neutered because someone may have a bad memory?

I have sympathy for anyone that went through a traumatic event but we can't make everything "off limits".

 

[Californian Elitist]

Just seems one side is giving their genuine reactions to the article and how the ride/ movie are fine and the other side are more concerned with our reactions. It’s almost as if the term “cancel culture” sets off anyone who thinks they fall on the left side of the political spectrum. I can’t help it if people take those two words personally.

We’re all discussing the topic and responding to each other, just like we always do.

 

[Californian Elitist]

That’s not a new expectation. There has been scandal surrounding works of fiction all through history. Much has been written about how Disneyland is a reflection of 1950s American society. It’s the same reasoning that Disneyland Paris was decried as a “cultural Chernobyl,” because it was not a reflection of French society.

Exactly. I’m finishing up my graduate thesis and have an entire chapter dedicated to the old obscenity laws here in the U.S. and the crusades against literature containing anything deemed “obscene,” usually texts with sexual or violent content. Many of the authors were forced to go to go to court, pay a fine, and/or serve prison time for writing “smut.”

 

[mickEblu]

No. Absolutely not. Some of us HAVE been trying to talk about the implications for the ride and the historical context of cultural changes because we DON'T think the article is ridiculous. Trying to lump any useful discussion into an either/or like this is disingenuous and factually incorrect.

Honestly at this point, if you think that any discussion over the context of the ride is ridiculous, you shouldn't be posting in this thread. Just stop reading it.



This is a serious misunderstanding of the problem here. Specifically with Snow White, assault of that nature *IS* the reality. Seeing that on display in a theme park attraction can snap a viewer out of the entertainment of the moment and right back into their own reality with some not great feelings associated with it.

When a ride starts bringing up hurtful memories, people are less inclined to ride it and want to see it replaced. That's when it stops being entertainment.

And before this gets out of hand: I realize that people do need to take responsibility for their own feelings and their own mental well being. Not everything needs to change, and certainly not right away. We are far away from a tipping point where Snow White needs to be changed or closed, but changing the ride in this fashion, in the midst of a campaign toward inclusion, is definitely hard to understand.

Smh. Are you insinuating that Snow Whites ending can trigger people who have been abused? If it did, I’m guessing it’s around 3 people in the last 80 years. All it means is those 3 people unfortunately were dealt a bad hand, have major psychological issues and need help. Doesn’t mean we need to rethink Snow Whites ending.

No it’s not hard to understand by people who live in the real world.

 

[CaptinEO]

You’re confusing people believing fiction should accurately reflect reality with people commenting on, critiquing, analyzing, etc. fiction in ways that relate to how we actually experience the world. That doesn’t mean that people believe these stories should look like real life.

No I'm not. We have all seen a shift towards art censorship, past, present, and future.

People have always been free to have discussions and analyze media, this is nothing new. What people want to do now is censor art.

Yes the source article for this wasn't calling for the ride or movie to be changed, but it clearly snowballed into that. I don't blame the source article, I blame the others who take a discussion and want to use it to take a piece of art away from the public.

 

[el_super]

The article is ridiculous.

Thanks, I disagree and want to keep discussing it.

In fact, to spend a moment on the article itself, people are seemingly glossing over the fact that the author gave the ride a POSITIVE review and thought it was a wonderful addition. The inclusion of their thoughts on the context of the ride changes, were a nice change of pace from the usual copy/paste press releases coming from papers like the OC Register. For once, it shows some nuance that really only comes from caring about the subject and showing a great deal of understanding. It is a pretty amazing article and I can only hope that, when more is written about Disneyland, that nuance continues.

In fact between this and Hugo Martin and Todd Martens at the LA Times, there has been some overall fantastic reporting on Disneyland lately.

 

[Californian Elitist]

And to be super fair, most of us (including me) were discussing charming new tunnel effects in the mine and surviving scary trees in the new finale when y'all got yourselves all worked up into a frothing Conservative fantasia over an innocent review of the ride written by a "crazy leftist," who turned out to just be the Disneyland editor for the publication. I responded to ONE thing you said that I thought seemed problematic, and here we still are apparently. The conversation seemed to be dying down, but luckily @TP2000 came in here to stir the pot and start it back up.

Yep. I made a comment about the new voiceover in the queue. I’d have to check, but I’m pretty sure I mostly refrained from speaking on the topic yesterday. TP responded to me and now here I am.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Like I wrote, as time goes on entertainment is expected to reflect "more and more" of real world societal standards, not that it's a new concept. It certainly has seemed to accelerate in recent years. Whether it's a good or bad thing is up for debate, I think it makes things more boring.

If anything the opposite was true. Most of the developed world has dropped formal censorship. Lenny Bruce wouldn’t be arrested today. You can make a big, celebrated movie about a horrible murderer and people understand it is fiction.

 

[el_super]

Should everything be neutered because someone may have a bad memory?

I have sympathy for anyone that went through a traumatic event but we can't make everything "off limits".

Yeah. We know. We can make some things off limits, and other things have to stay, but we will never know which is which until we HAVE the discussion. Which means admitting that the article wasn't ridiculous for bringing it up. Even if you disagree with the premise.

Smh. Are you insinuating that Snow Whites ending can trigger people who have been abused? If it did, I’m guessing it’s around 3 people in the last 80 years. All it means is those 3 people unfortunately were dealt a bad hand, have major psychological issues and need help. Doesn’t mean we need to rethink Snow Whites ending.

Yeah, it also doesn't mean it has to stay, when there are a thousand other options to put something in that space that wouldn't be so offensive.

 

[CaptinEO]

If anything the opposite was true. Most of the developed world has dropped formal censorship. Lenny Bruce wouldn’t be arrested today. You can make a big, celebrated movie about a horrible murderer and people understand it is fiction.

It all depends on the current topics. I won't get into examples here, now the media seems to not care about those families effected by murder and is fine glorifying serial killers. I doubt this will always be the case.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

So what’s the point of talking about it then? To add some more non sense to whatever your convoluted message is ?

You. Brought. It. Back. Up. Not me. You'll notice that you were responding to me quoting you?

 

[CaptinEO]

Yeah, it also doesn't mean it has to stay, when there are a thousand other options to put something in that space that wouldn't be so offensive.

Are you even a Disney fan? Walt Disney's original feature Snow White should be removed? It only started the entire feature film animation industry.

If it wasn't for Snow White there would be no Disneyland.

Disney can try to censor history by distancing themselves from what started the company in the first place, but people will always know the facts.

 

[mickEblu]

You. Brought. It. Back. Up. Not me. You'll notice that you were responding to me quoting you?

I mean we re all “bringing it back up” because we all keep posting about it over the last few days. Again, it’s a confusing, watered down message. Don’t get into politics. Or actually, maybe you’d be perfect?

 

[DanielBB8]

Yeah, it also doesn't mean it has to stay, when there are a thousand other options to put something in that space that wouldn't be so offensive.

You finally admit the endgame and it is offensive as well. You don't think the article ridiculous because it all aligns with your worldview perfectly.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Don't you love gaslighting?

Surely you're referring to the post you're quoting, since it's nothing but made up nonsense?

 

[mickEblu]

Yeah. We know. We can make some things off limits, and other things have to stay, but we will never know which is which until we HAVE the discussion. Which means admitting that the article wasn't ridiculous for bringing it up. Even if you disagree with the premise.



Yeah, it also doesn't mean it has to stay, when there are a thousand other options to put something in that space that wouldn't be so offensive.

So offensive? Here I go, back into the Twilight Zone. I’m going to be taking permanent residence there pretty soon.

 

[DanielBB8]

Surely you're referring to the post you're quoting, since it's nothing but made up nonsense?

Surely you read TP2000's post since he described gaslighting perfectly.

 

[mickEblu]

I just want you all to know that everything is going to be ok. Not for you guys but for me because my sister is bringing me back a peanut butter Blondie from Craftsman today. I’ve been jonesing for one but wasn’t going to be staying at the GCH anytime soon. I even tried making some during the dark days of 2020 and they came out terrible.