Disneyland: The AP issue

[mickEblu]

I'm going to have to disagree. They needed that stuff in the queue to subvert your expectations. This isn't Tower of Terror anymore. It's Tower of Zany Antics Feat. The Guardians of the Galaxy. The main ride profiles are frenetic, whimsical, and thrilling. This is especially improtant because the new theme is attracting a wider array of riders. Several people in line with me remarks that they never would have written Tower of Terror, because of how scary it seemed to them. Mission Breakout is still scary, but the ride wants you to laugh along with your fear, instead of having the ride laugh at your fear.

Mission Breakout is not scary. It's funny. Even the only remaining scary part, the thrills of dropping down in the elevator are bouncier and not as scary. I'm not saying MB has to be Tower of Terror but like any good story you don't show your entire hand in the first act. That's kind of what MB does by having the Guardians on the giant screen in the queue cracking jokes. I do like the new "boiler room" though.

 

[Phroobar]

Mission Breakout is not scary. It's funny. Even the only remaining scary part, the thrills of dropping down in the elevator are bouncier and not as scary. I'm not saying MB has to be Tower of Terror but like any good story you don't show your entire hand in the first act. That's kind of what MB does with their queue by having the Guardians on the giant screen in the queue cracking jokes. I do like the new "boiler room" though.

That is why my youngest loves the MB version over the TOT version. It's the same basic ride but now it's funny and exciting instead of scary and shocking. I have to dragged him into the Haunted Mansion but loves going on Haunted Mansion Holiday.

 

[mickEblu]

That is why my youngest loves the MB version over the TOT version. It's the same basic ride but now it's funny and exciting instead of scary and shocking. I have to dragged him into the Haunted Mansion but loves going on Haunted Mansion Holiday.

I think that's great but I don't think that's what they were going for - to get younger kids not to be scared. Otherwise Snowhites Scary Adventures probably would have received an overlay years ago. Rather, I think it's just an unintended byproduct of bad story telling.

 

[SoManyWasps]

Mission Breakout is not scary. It's funny. Even the only remaining scary part, the thrills of dropping down in the elevator are bouncier and not as scary. I'm not saying MB has to be Tower of Terror but like any good story you don't show your entire hand in the first act. That's kind of what MB does by having the Guardians on the giant screen in the queue cracking jokes. I do like the new "boiler room" though.

That is why my youngest loves the MB version over the TOT version. It's the same basic ride but now it's funny and exciting instead of scary and shocking. I have to dragged him into the Haunted Mansion but loves going on Haunted Mansion Holiday.

Well I may be more prone to fear responses than most. I maintain that Guardians is much less scary than Tower, but still a little scary.

 

[Phroobar]

I think that's great but I don't think that's what they were going for - to get younger kids not to be scared. Otherwise Snowhites Scary Adventures probably would have received an overlay years ago. Rather, I think it's just an unintended byproduct of bad story telling.

He won't do Snow White either.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Wow.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Wow.

I know, right???


wait...what are we talking about?

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

phruby Jr.

 

[Phroobar]

All kids are different. Some don't like scary rides while others become obsessive about the Haunted Mansion. What a boring world we would live in if everyone liked the same things.

 

[SoManyWasps]

All kids are different. Some don't like scary rides while others become obsessive about the Haunted Mansion. What a boring world we would live in if everyone liked the same things.

I'm glad I was scared of so many things in the Parks when I was a kid, in a weird way. It's giving me an opportunity to have completely new experiences in the parks as an adult basically every time I go.

 

[winstongator]

I've seen this discussed on many forums and many threads over the years.

To be clear, there isn't an AP issue. Disney has as many APs as they want. When it gets out of hand with a specific pass they stop offering it like they did with the SoCal passes in recent years. Or they split a pass into multiple like they did with the Premium into Signature. Then they reintroduce them when they the level gets too low.

The only group that is bothered by APs specifically are us in the fandom. As we use APs as a scapegoat for things we don't like such as the crowds and up-charge events. And the ironic thing is a majority of us in the fandom are APs. So we contribute to our own perceived issue.

Now this isn't to say the program couldn't be changed. But overall I doubt that Disney will ever see APs as an issue.

I think Disney has more APs than they 'want' and the APs are paying lower prices than the market would yield. Disney is more sensitive to increasing AP prices too much to overshoot market yield/angering long-time fans than maximizing the revenue from passes & even tickets. Right now, ignoring details, they've got A # passholders * B pass cost. They could go to a point C new # passholders * D new pass cost. Less passholders but at higher prices. I believe there's a whole spectrum of points where C*D > A*B (current income to Disney from passholders). I expect even more price increases as SWGE opens, and in Orlando, TSL. There's probably an interesting business school case study in this.

One complicating factor is there is a lot of per-guest income: merch, food, hotels. It's not all about maximizing revenue from tickets. There is probably some price, higher than current prices where attendance would be nearly the same, and increased attendance revenue would be more than lost per-guest revenue.

 

[Phroobar]

I think Disney has more APs than they 'want' and the APs are paying lower prices than the market would yield. Disney is more sensitive to increasing AP prices too much to overshoot market yield/angering long-time fans than maximizing the revenue from passes & even tickets. Right now, ignoring details, they've got A # passholders * B pass cost. They could go to a point C new # passholders * D new pass cost. Less passholders but at higher prices. I believe there's a whole spectrum of points where C*D > A*B (current income to Disney from passholders). I expect even more price increases as SWGE opens, and in Orlando, TSL. There's probably an interesting business school case study in this.

One complicating factor is there is a lot of per-guest income: merch, food, hotels. It's not all about maximizing revenue from tickets. There is probably some price, higher than current prices where attendance would be nearly the same, and increased attendance revenue would be more than lost per-guest revenue.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think Disney has more APs than they 'want' and the APs are paying lower prices than the market would yield. Disney is more sensitive to increasing AP prices too much to overshoot market yield/angering long-time fans than maximizing the revenue from passes & even tickets. Right now, ignoring details, they've got A # passholders * B pass cost. They could go to a point C new # passholders * D new pass cost. Less passholders but at higher prices. I believe there's a whole spectrum of points where C*D > A*B (current income to Disney from passholders). I expect even more price increases as SWGE opens, and in Orlando, TSL. There's probably an interesting business school case study in this.

One complicating factor is there is a lot of per-guest income: merch, food, hotels. It's not all about maximizing revenue from tickets. There is probably some price, higher than current prices where attendance would be nearly the same, and increased attendance revenue would be more than lost per-guest revenue.

If all this is true then why would they keep selling new APs? If they have more than they "want", why would they continue to offer said passes for purchase and not just stop selling them and keep the ones they have? Remember it was just a few years ago that they stopped selling the lower SoCal passes. They could have just maintained the ones they had. But as the number of APs in that level declined due to people not renewing or upgrading to a higher pass they started offering the SoCal ones for sale again. Again if Disney had more than they "want" why even offer the SoCal for sale again just a year or so later after canceling it? Why not just maintain the ones they had and tell people you have to buy the higher AP?

The only people that know for sure is Disney. We can all claim to have the answer, but as I said previously, there isn't an AP issue as Disney doesn't see it as an issue. Disney will continue to offer the program until the day it doesn't benefit them.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

If all this is true then why would they keep selling new APs? If they have more than they "want", why would they continue to offer said passes for purchase and not just stop selling them and keep the ones they have? Remember it was just a few years ago that they stopped selling the lower SoCal passes. They could have just maintained the ones they had. But as the number of APs in that level declined due to people not renewing or upgrading to a higher pass they started offering the SoCal ones for sale again. Again if Disney had more than they "want" why even offer the SoCal for sale again just a year or so later after canceling it? Why not just maintain the ones they had and tell people you have to buy the higher AP?

The only people that know for sure is Disney. We can all claim to have the answer, but as I said previously, there isn't an AP issue as Disney doesn't see it as an issue. Disney will continue to offer the program until the day it doesn't benefit them.

When I started this thread, I never really meant to insinuate that Disney viewed AP's as a problem. They LOVE AP's in the parks. The more the merrier. All Disney sees is their income levels rising, and no reason to alter their current structure.

I also agree (or disagree) that Disney has more AP's than they want. They probably want more! More revenue can only be better for them.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

That NY Times piece is a hoot! When the hip and edgy paper meets the hip and edgy park, the result is hilarious.

 

[Stevek]

We went Sunday, got there at 1, left by 5...I'm more convinced than ever that I won't be renewing my AP. I really just don't find the experience enjoyable at all anymore which is sad for something I love so much. Maybe a 1-2 year break will give me that burning desire to go back again.

 

[disneygeek90]

We went Sunday, got there at 1, left by 5...I'm more convinced than ever that I won't be renewing my AP. I really just don't find the experience enjoyable at all anymore which is sad for something I love so much. Maybe a 1-2 year break will give me that burning desire to go back again.

Because of crowds? I would think 1-5 would literally be the busiest time of the day every day.

 

[Phroobar]

We went Sunday, got there at 1, left by 5...I'm more convinced than ever that I won't be renewing my AP. I really just don't find the experience enjoyable at all anymore which is sad for something I love so much. Maybe a 1-2 year break will give me that burning desire to go back again.

It helps to stay away for a few years. When you can use going to Disneyland as a punishment for the kids for not doing their homework, it's time to stop.

 

[Stevek]

Because of crowds? I would think 1-5 would literally be the busiest time of the day every day.

Never used to be that way. It's gotten far worse...doesn't help that it was the last Sunday of Halloweetime but I've been there enough times since we started going very regularly in 2001 to recognize the change in attendance. Sunday, mid-week...used to be able to find great off season crowds. Those days no longer exist.

 

[mickEblu]

Never used to be that way. It's gotten far worse...doesn't help that it was the last Sunday of Halloweetime but I've been there enough times since we started going very regularly in 2001 to recognize the change in attendance. Sunday, mid-week...used to be able to find great off season crowds. Those days no longer exist.

I think the biggest thing is adjusting expectations and readjusting our view of what an "offseason" day means in 2017 and just cherry picking some good days. I've taken some non AP family to the parks on days that are not croweded by modern standards but they still found the park to be crowded. That's because their idea of "not crowded" was still based on experiences from the 80s and 90s. With that said, as an AP I'm sure you get this and you re probably comparing to maybe even just a few years back.