Disneyland and Disney World lay off 28,000 employees amid pandemic struggles - OCR/SCNG

TP2000

Well-Known Member
  • Furloughs. More are coming. TDA brought back too many theme park managers in June thinking the Resort was going to reopen by July. Now they are swimming in managers who have very little to do. A new round of furloughs are imminent, sending many of the managers who were brought back this past summer back into the unemployed furlough pool. Just in time for Christmas!

Well, what do you know, the info I heard on Saturday was right. I owe someone another drink now! :cool: 🍸

"Disneyland plans to furlough additional employees in the wake of COVID-19 reopening guidelines from Gov. Gavin Newsom’s administration that have left California theme parks “in limbo” for the foreseeable future.

Disneyland president Ken Potrock announced the furloughs of executive, salaried and hourly workers on Monday, Nov. 9 in a letter to cast members, Disney parlance for employees.
 
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Mousertainment

Well-Known Member
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I really wish I had known in advance that the times I went to Disneyland in January, February, and March would be the last times the parks would be operating for a year or more, and also the last times that I would be getting mostly full experiences at the parks for a very long time to come.

I would have treasured those visits so much more if I knew that time was basically the end of an era for the Disneyland Resort. Even if the parks reopen next Spring, I fear it will be years before they return to their former glory.
I had a similar thought this past week. I realized that whenever the park returns, it won't be the park it was when I last saw it a few days before closing. It suddenly hit me that it was an ending that I needed to mourn but hadn't recognized because we didn't have that moment of emotional closure before the physical closure.

It reminded me of 2016 when the Mad T Party closed in DCA. That was the end of an entertainment era for myself and my friends - both those on the stage and off. We knew then that the parks would never be the same again for us, but at least we got to say good-bye.

Thankfully, 2017 brought a lot of new joy for me at DCA in the Marvel offerings like the character meet and greets and the GOTG: Awesome Dance Off which filled a lot of the entertainment hole in my heart.

When the parks reopen, I don't know if any of the cast performers or character friends who have made these last several years so... yes, magical... for me will return. Which means that unlike with the Mad T Party, I didn't get the chance to say good-bye. And that loss, on top of the loss of those regular joyous interactions, is what really hit me over the past few days. And I'm still not sure I'm ready to face it, although I can finally recognize it. But ultimately, I may not know just how much of a loss it will be until the parks reopen and I see who is there and who is not.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I had a similar thought this past week. I realized that whenever the park returns, it won't be the park it was when I last saw it a few days before closing. It suddenly hit me that it was an ending that I needed to mourn but hadn't recognized because we didn't have that moment of emotional closure before the physical closure.

It reminded me of 2016 when the Mad T Party closed in DCA. That was the end of an entertainment era for myself and my friends - both those on the stage and off. We knew then that the parks would never be the same again for us, but at least we got to say good-bye.

Thankfully, 2017 brought a lot of new joy for me at DCA in the Marvel offerings like the character meet and greets and the GOTG: Awesome Dance Off which filled a lot of the entertainment hole in my heart.

When the parks reopen, I don't know if any of the cast performers or character friends who have made these last several years so... yes, magical... for me will return. Which means that unlike with the Mad T Party, I didn't get the chance to say good-bye. And that loss, on top of the loss of those regular joyous interactions, is what really hit me over the past few days. And I'm still not sure I'm ready to face it, although I can finally recognize it. But ultimately, I may not know just how much of a loss it will be until the parks reopen and I see who is there and who is not.
Sometimes there are no happy endings.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Sometimes there are no happy endings.

Yeah.

I imagine @Darkbeer can't say much, but the people who filled me in on all the above on Saturday, including the impending mass furloughs that actually played out on Monday, were equally as worried about Anaheim's future without an operating convention center. There's something weird going on up in Sacramento in the way that no one in SoCal's tourism industry can get Sacramento to communicate anything of any substance besides the occasional Tweet or long-winded and puffed-up press conference.
 
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Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yeah.

I imagine @Darkbeer can't say much, but the people who filled me in on all the above on Saturday, including the impending mass furloughs that actually played out on Monday, were equally as worried about Anaheim's future without an operating convention center. There's something weird going on up in Sacramento in the way that no one in SoCal's tourism industry can get Sacramento to communicate anything of any substance besides the occasional Tweet or long-winded and puffed-up press conference.

Great summary TP2000. I enjoyed your posts the last few days. The inside info seems good.

And yes, I am very limited to what I can post, and while I would love to say more, the limits are understandable, though frustrating.

But then there is short-term views vs long-term views, and the long-term looks decent.

But the current status is hurting the area in so many ways.

I use my lovely wife as a sounding board, and she talks about moving out of the city and California due to her frustrations with Sacramento, and she works for the County of Orange, and Dr. Clayton Chau is her boss.

At last night's Planning Commission meeting, David See, the city's Principal Planner is stepping down after nearly 24 years of service. Sounds like he took the golden parachute the city is offering to cut its payroll, and he isn't the only one....

So while the city has a new council (Denise Barnes conceded on Facebook on Sunday), they will be faced with a lot of challenges. The County Board of Supervisors remain 4 to 1 in business friendly members. A couple of US House seats should switch from Democratic to Republican. Most of the State Propositions went the way of not paying more taxes and freedoms in employment and other matters.

But the city can easily refinance, and there is the Angel Stadium sale proceeds to help in the short term.

Anaheim is in a better place than some urban cities. Their outlook is scary.

But then it is the little guys that are really paying the price, both small businesses and folks who have lost their jobs. Those folks have my sympathies, and I wish I had the answer to helping them out of their current situation.

In the last few weeks, my life has been filled with lots of phone calls and small zoom meeting of local residents and business owners, and lawyers. Their comments do give me hope, and Lisa has calmed down and not talking about leaving the State.

Now to figure out the short term course, which is very hard without guidelines to figure which paths to take.
 

TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Okay, here's the info I got at two Palm Springs events yesterday from several people connected to Disneyland and Anaheim's business community in various ways. I trust the insight from these people a great deal. They know what they are talking about. In no particular order;

  • The Disneyland Resort is bleeding money every day. Nothing they are doing is working to create a profit for Disney. Operating Downtown Disney is costing Disney money, but at least keeps the third-party tenants kind of happy and avoids lawsuits from them. Operating Buena Vista Street will not earn them any real money, it will only retain a pool of CM's and keep them employed, because it would be more expensive to rehire them once the parks begin to actually reopen. The entire strategy right now is simply "Survival Mode", trying to maintain a pool of tenured CM's to build off of once the parks reopen. Knott's is said to be in the same boat; their recent food festivals made no profit, it just keeps the park barely operating and a core group of employees still connected. Knott's is simply trying to survive until next summer.

  • Both Disney and their allies in Anaheim City Hall have switched into Survival Mode. This current situation is simply disastrous for everyone involved. It's becoming clear that the best case scenario for reopening is Disneyland reopens Spring, 2021 at 25% capacity, and that scenario now pencils out as an economic disaster for Anaheim and for Disney. TDA also realizes reopening might not be until next summer, a full 15 months after Disneyland closed. The good news for non-Disney hotels is that Disney will only reopen with the Grand Californian, and that news was purposely released to City Hall and the community to try and help Disney's neighbors plan for the future. TDA is regrouping and trying to figure out a strategy to make it to next spring/summer. Anaheim is scrambling to try and prevent the Resort District from losing all of its small businesses, plus some large anchors like GardenWalk and corporate hotels around the convention center, with the Resort District being taken over by the homeless. But Anaheim is also trying to do the same with its dying downtown area now overrun by homeless as well (see Carnegie Plaza mess).

In the short-run, Disney and Knott's are making enough money that it helps offset some of their fixed costs. Those fixed costs are going to be there no matter what (utilities, taxes, debt payoff, etc.) so they can either have some money come in that will offset those fixed costs (but not all of them, obviously). If the variable cost (the labor, supplies, etc.) weren't being covered, there's no way Disney would be operating. So while losing money, they're probably losing less money then if they did nothing at all. This will be their short-run for a while and as long as it helps them cover some of their fixed during that time frame, they won't change it up until they can re-open.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Great summary TP2000. I enjoyed your posts the last few days. The inside info seems good.

And yes, I am very limited to what I can post, and while I would love to say more, the limits are understandable, though frustrating.

But then there is short-term views vs long-term views, and the long-term looks decent.

But the current status is hurting the area in so many ways.

I use my lovely wife as a sounding board, and she talks about moving out of the city and California due to her frustrations with Sacramento, and she works for the County of Orange, and Dr. Clayton Chau is her boss.

At last night's Planning Commission meeting, David See, the city's Principal Planner is stepping down after nearly 24 years of service. Sounds like he took the golden parachute the city is offering to cut its payroll, and he isn't the only one....

So while the city has a new council (Denise Barnes conceded on Facebook on Sunday), they will be faced with a lot of challenges. The County Board of Supervisors remain 4 to 1 in business friendly members. A couple of US House seats should switch from Democratic to Republican. Most of the State Propositions went the way of not paying more taxes and freedoms in employment and other matters.

But the city can easily refinance, and there is the Angel Stadium sale proceeds to help in the short term.

Anaheim is in a better place than some urban cities. Their outlook is scary.

But then it is the little guys that are really paying the price, both small businesses and folks who have lost their jobs. Those folks have my sympathies, and I wish I had the answer to helping them out of their current situation.

In the last few weeks, my life has been filled with lots of phone calls and small zoom meeting of local residents and business owners, and lawyers. Their comments do give me hope, and Lisa has calmed down and not talking about leaving the State.

Now to figure out the short term course, which is very hard without guidelines to figure which paths to take.
Some people I know have made to move to get out of CA. Some going to Austin and Dallas TX areas.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
In the short-run, Disney and Knott's are making enough money that it helps offset some of their fixed costs. Those fixed costs are going to be there no matter what (utilities, taxes, debt payoff, etc.) so they can either have some money come in that will offset those fixed costs (but not all of them, obviously). If the variable cost (the labor, supplies, etc.) weren't being covered, there's no way Disney would be operating. So while losing money, they're probably losing less money then if they did nothing at all. This will be their short-run for a while and as long as it helps them cover some of their fixed during that time frame, they won't change it up until they can re-open.
He literally said they are not making sny money off these events.
 

flutas

Well-Known Member
He literally said they are not making sny money off these events.

Making a profit does not equal making money.

Knott's is said to be in the same boat; their recent food festivals made no profit, it just keeps the park barely operating and a core group of employees still connected. Knott's is simply trying to survive until next summer.

Now, if I know TP2000 like I think I do... he's very good at using his words in a direct and specific meaning.

"made no profit" does not mean it did not net the company any money.

If Knott's costs $50k a day to sit there, and the food festival is an additional $25k a day to run. If they sell over $25k in tickets for that day, they made no net profit, but it did help offset the costs of the park.
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
Making a profit does not equal making money.



Now, if I know TP2000 like I think I do... he's very good at using his words in a direct and specific meaning.

"made no profit" does not mean it did not net the company any money.

If Knott's costs $50k a day to sit there, and the food festival is an additional $25k a day to run. If they sell over $25k in tickets for that day, they made no net profit, but it did help offset the costs of the park.

And it keeps people employed. They don't find other jobs for when you really need them which sounds like next year. When Disneyland reopens, it'll probably have to open at reduced capacity until it can hire and train enough people to replace the ones that found other jobs.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Some people I know have made to move to get out of CA. Some going to Austin and Dallas TX areas.

Sure. And watch all those transplanted Californian 40somethings who want the low taxes and 3,200 square foot house with big yard and 3 car garage in Austin instead of the high taxes and 2,100 square foot house with 2 car garage and tiny yard in Mission Viejo all start voting for Democrats again for the next 20 years until Texas is just as screwed up as California is after 25 years of majority Democrat rule.

But I digress... :cool:

Now, if I know TP2000 like I think I do... he's very good at using his words in a direct and specific meaning.

"made no profit" does not mean it did not net the company any money.

If Knott's costs $50k a day to sit there, and the food festival is an additional $25k a day to run. If they sell over $25k in tickets for that day, they made no net profit, but it did help offset the costs of the park.

I'm genuinely flattered that you think I'm as specific you think I am. But I'm afraid the reality is far from the assumption you have of me. I'm just an old guy in his den sounding off into the ether, using a decent bit of life experience and a good glass of Scotch as my fuel. (With the exception of that one time 20 years ago when I took over the Internet for a few decades as the world's first Influencer and ghost-writed all of Al Lutz's stuff to overthrow Michael Eisner and elevate Bob Iger to his rightful place on the throne, of course. That time, I was totally on it. I nailed it!)

When I said "made no profit", I am merely repeating what I was told in the dishy OC corner of a Rancho Mirage cocktail party last weekend. Knott's has made no profit with their recent food festival things. They are simply covering payroll and keeping the basic bills paid, but with a long-term loss on their investment. They can't continue like this. They need to turn back into a busy theme park by next spring or they will close. This isn't a business model that works for them in the 21st century. Nor is it a business model that works for Disneyland, or any other theme park in California.

I know it's fashionable to think that all these big, evil Capitalist companies are sitting on piles of cash that they just refuse to share with anyone. But the reality is a tad different. A company can not stay closed for a year while simultaneously paying employees to not sell the product the company was designed to sell. After eight to twelve months of that, even the biggest and swankiest of companies will simply stop existing.

In a Capitalist Free-Market economy, a company can not exist by not selling the product it was designed to sell.
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
Making a profit does not equal making money.



Now, if I know TP2000 like I think I do... he's very good at using his words in a direct and specific meaning.

"made no profit" does not mean it did not net the company any money.

If Knott's costs $50k a day to sit there, and the food festival is an additional $25k a day to run. If they sell over $25k in tickets for that day, they made no net profit, but it did help offset the costs of the park.
Hmm... I understand better now.
 

Captn EO

Well-Known Member
Sure. And watch all those transplanted Californian 40somethings who want the low taxes and 3,200 square foot house with big yard and 3 car garage in Austin instead of the high taxes and 2,100 square foot house with 2 car garage and tiny yard in Mission Viejo all start voting for Democrats again for the next 20 years until Texas is just as screwed up as California is after 25 years of majority Democrat rule.

But I digress... :cool:



I'm genuinely flattered that you think I'm as specific you think I am. But I'm afraid the reality is far from the assumption you have of me. I'm just an old guy in his den sounding off into the ether, using a decent bit of life experience and a good glass of Scotch as my fuel. (With the exception of that one time 20 years ago when I took over the Internet for a few decades as the world's first Influencer and ghost-writed all of Al Lutz's stuff to overthrow Michael Eisner and elevate Bob Iger to his rightful place on the throne, of course. That time, I was totally on it. I nailed it!)

When I said "made no profit", I am merely repeating what I was told in the dishy OC corner of a Rancho Mirage cocktail party last weekend. Knott's has made no profit with their recent food festival things. They are simply covering payroll and keeping the basic bills paid, but with a long-term loss on their investment. They can't continue like this. They need to turn back into a busy theme park by next spring or they will close. This isn't a business model that works for them in the 21st century. Nor is it a business model that works for Disneyland, or any other theme park in California.

I know it's fashionable to think that all these big, evil Capitalist companies are sitting on piles of cash that they just refuse to share with anyone. But the reality is a tad different. A company can not stay closed for a year while simultaneously paying employees to not sell the product the company was designed to sell. After eight to twelve months of that, even the biggest and swankiest of companies will simply stop existing.

In a Capitalist Free-Market economy, a company can not exist by not selling the product it was designed to sell.
Man that allegation about you working for Iger was hillarious. It's especially silly when you think how Micechat and Al Lutz continued to be just as critical of Disney after Iger took over.

I sincerely hope Micechat can go back to its roots and not be a fanboy promotional site.

It's really sad that this has become a lost year, and it being 2021 soon wont magically solve things either, like many believe.

I'm amazed the governor has not been recalled at this point. The damage he has done will last a very long time.
 
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truecoat

Well-Known Member
Man that allegation about you working for Iger was hillarious. It's especially silly when you think how Micechat and Al Lutz continued to be just as critical of Disney after Iger took over.

It's really sad that this has become a lost year, and it being 2021 soon wont magically solve things either, like many believe.

I'm amazed the governor has not been recalled at this point. The damage he has done will last a very long time.

He won't be recalled because his approval rating is high enough.
 

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