Disney World wants Florida's fast train to bypass competition

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Originally posted by goofyguy
I don't really have a problem with Disney attempting to get the stop near them. I also wouldn't have a problem with Universal, Sea World, or Big Bob's Discount Stereos. It would be stupid for any business owner not to use their clout to try to get the station near them. That's what capitalism is all about.

Now, it's the job of the politicians to ignore that pressure and do what's in the best interest of the people. That's what democracy is all about.

It's a great country (when it works). :)

I don't think having a station at WDW is at issue...it's Disney telling them to NOT have a stop at the Convention Center or near any other attractions that's irritating everyone.
 

kaos

Active Member
Originally posted by jmarc63



There have been rumors since the late 80s that Disney wanted to build a Monorail link to OIA, weather it was true and was shot down for political reasons or mono-tary ones I don't remember.

There was a plan to run a WDW Monorail direct from MDI (Orlando International) to the TTC, but when the monorail extension plan was redlighted, this fell by the wayside.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by kaos


There was a plan to run a WDW Monorail direct from MDI (Orlando International) to the TTC, but when the monorail extension plan was redlighted, this fell by the wayside.

What is MDI? If you are refering to OIAs airport code it is MCO. Standing for McCoy which was the Militaty Base that was there before Commercial operations started in the late 60s
 

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
Ignoring politics for a moment, I see the key to the original article the term "High Speed". Disney World, the Convention Center, Universal, Sea World etc. are all so close, that no system could be considered "High Speed" if it stops at more than one of them. Even if the train is capable of going 400 MPH, a route with multiple stops such as this will bogg things down very quickly.

As many people have already mentioned, a hub system with light rail or monorails or other options is the only thing that makes sense to keep the High Speed line fast. The big argument then shifts to "Who gets the hub?", and that may come down to an available land issue.

If I was a city planner (and this thing goes beyond talk), I'd try to offer Disney World the stop with the condition they alot an appropriate amount of land for the other rails (from what I've seen, land seems pretty tight in other potential hub spots).
 

Sketch105

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by jmarc63



There have been rumors since the late 80s that Disney wanted to build a Monorail link to OIA, weather it was true and was shot down for political reasons or mono-tary ones I don't remember.

I'm well aware of those rumours. That's why Disney missed out because they did not went to spend the money, so therefore they should have done it themselves. But its too late now ;)
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Originally posted by jmarc63


What is MDI? If you are refering to OIAs airport code it is MCO. Standing for McCord which was the Militaty Base that was there before Commercial operations started in the late 60s


lol... MDI is Makurdi, Nigeria... that's a wee bit far. I thought that the base was McCoy, not McCoord
 

Invero

Well-Known Member
Just gonna throw my two cents in...

From how I understand things, the current proposed system required by the Constitutional Amendment, calls for a high speed rail network. This high speed network should not be confused with an intra-city transit system. A fixed guideway system has two choices... High Speed, or Local (Meaning, multiple local stops). You can't have both.

My guess is that once you reach the city that it services, you transfer at a central transfer station, to a local transit system, which in this case, might be a smaller scale monorail. With an intra-city monorail system (or light rail perhaps), then from there you would go to your final destination. The system would operate like any other fixed guideway based transit system, and make stops at local area attractions. This would (and should) include Universal, SeaWorld, and the Convention Center. To have a system bypass these attractions would discourage ridership. Ultimatly, it is the riders who pay for the system, as most monorails are non-subsidised.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by mktiggerman



lol... MDI is Makurdi, Nigeria... that's a wee bit far. I thought that the base was McCoy, not McCoord



My apologies your correct it is McCoy I was thinking of something else when I wrote it.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
This track and supporting system is quickly becoming little more than a big headache. You see, that first stage of the track isn't supposed to go just from Orlando to Tampa. It's supposed to go from Orlando to Saint Petersburg. I bring this up because the problem they are currently facing with that is a good example of how complex and confusing this whole thing is:First, this high speed rail has been voted on so we are getting it come hell or high water but those in charge of developing it are now thinking that a connection that goes to Saint Petersburg wouldn't be such a good idea because it's only about 20 miles away from what would be the proposed Tampa stop (which they are saying is too close a distance for the high speed rail to be efficient on) and because a chunk of that extra 20 miles goes across Tampa Bay they would have to build a new bridge adding possibly over a billion dollars to the cost of the project. Saint Petersburg insists that they should get their leg since it's now in a strange way required by law that it be built but the planners would rather put in a Tampa stop and link St. Petersburg via a light rail that could be added to an existing bridge. This is a high stakes deal because anytime there is a transfer it complicates the ability for large groups of people to get anywhere. Some of our cast members who deal with transportation at WDW can attest to this. If St. Petersburg doesn't get the rail all the way to them, there will be a considerable difference in the number of tourists and such that will go to St. Pete with this system, all because of one little transfer... The same kind of thing happening with the Orlando area. From what I understand after reading numerous article about this over the past two years or so, is that they plan to put the Orlando stop for this rail near the airport and then offer light rail to other destinations from there as a hub in the orlando area. The sticking point with Disney comes down to who they have to share their stretch of the light rail with. They want an exclusive track and all of the Orlando area wants them on their track. It only takes a little common sense to figure out the whys of all of this. While many people do travel from out of state to go to the convention center, not all that many do for all the tourist shops and theme parks along I-Drive. If you stay on Disney and don't rent a car they've pretty much got your entire trip. After the parks there is the boardwalk and Downtown Disney and they have the water parks and such. SInce it's such a hassle to make it out to I-Drive from Disney without your own vehicle, most people on property never visit Orlando Point or any of the other shopping/entertainment areas around there. I'm pretty sure that Disney figures that if people want to go to Disney, they'll find a way, especially since Disney is still the biggest single draw to that area. That's why so many of the hotels offer free shuttles to Disney. On the other hand, offering people easy access to that area from Disney only increases the chances that someone staying on property on vacation will go to someplace like Orlando point one evening instead of DTD or maybe will visit Wet n' Wild one day instead of a Disney water park or visit Universal instead of a Disney theme park on a day of their visit. Even if someone goes with a length of stay pass, Disney still looses the souvenir and concessions sales for that day when this kind of thing happens. I'm pretty sure that Disney sees this same-loop idea as nothing but bad for them... On the other hand, if they got their own satellite directly from the hub, people would have to transfer at least once to get to that area and that single factor would make it just enough of a hassle (in Disney's eyes) to keep enough people from bothering.

Ultimately, it seems like Disney is acting like a big baby and thinks the Orlando are owes them something but they have more to do with this project than meets the eye. First, a connection to Disney is GREATLY desired for this project. Not having Disney somewhere on the network reduces the benefit to local businesses for the whole thing immensely and Disney can flatly refuse to cooperate. The state can condemn the land on Disney property that they need and essentially take it anyway but Disney has already stated that if that tactic is used, they will fight it in court for as long as they can which in the long run with court costs and years of delays, could end up costing considerably more than giving Disney what they wanted to begin with...

Either way, the greater Orlando are will benefit more from a Disney connection to this system than it will without, even if it isn't a direct one and Disney knows this. They realize that nobody is trying to do them any favor by including them on this project regardless of how it ends up. Disney proposes a slightly higher charge and is willing to offer *some* financial assistance with their track and station if they get one to themselves to help cover the additional construction and maintenance costs. I believe Disney has also tried to sell the fact that some of the additional costs for the separate track would be offset somewhat by savings in the cost of additional track to attach them to the larger loop but I sort of question how much of a dent would really be put into the project with these savings. Since the only real benefit Disney sees is getting people from the airport to their property more conveniently and cheaply than taking a third party shuttle or cab, they don't see a need to be terribly open-minded with this whole project.

Something will have to happen with Disney weather they end up with any track or not. Up till now it hasn't really been their problem to figure out how most of their guests got to and from the airport but if a rail goes in that connects everyone else to the airport Disney suddenly has a major strike against them. From what I understand, it has been suggested by representatives from their side that if they do not get their way with this project, they will develop their own transportation system to and from the airport. Since they are not likely to get much assistance with getting the land that would need to be condemned to lay their own rail, it would appear that they would repurpose some of the most widely used transportation vehicles on Disney property to get people to and from the airport. Anyone want to guess what those vehicles would be?

I'm not siding with DIsney on this one. The whole thing seems HIGHLY political and I don't think there really is a "good guy" in this whole situation. Disney doesn't want the loop connection for the EXACT reason that everyone else wants it...
 

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