Disney World Buses Go Green

[WDWGuide]

Have you bought any Solar panels yet?:shrug:

Not a good investment until the clowns in Tallahassee decide that here you should get paid at a competitive rate for the surplus power you provide (which, in Florida, can be substantial - the generating potential is really quite good. No need for Germany-sized subsidies here).
While it has the potential to be a great "rooftop solar" state, Florida isn't that great for large-scale solar installations. Compared to the southwest, land prices tend to be higher while the generating potential is a good bit lower - it just takes too long to recoup the investment that way.

 

[jt04]

I might be crazy but doesnt the universe of energy run off part solar? Except at night or cloudy times. I would think that if Disney wanted to they could do that more across the parks.

You need to do more research with all due respect. IF those panels still work on top of UoE (and that is a BIG if) they can only provide a small amount of the energy needed to run the attraction (AC, lights etc). People are very misinformed about Solar energy! I wll ask you also, have you bought Solar panels yet?:shrug:

 

[PeeplMoovr]

Have you bought any Solar panels yet?:shrug:

(mini thread hijack)

I'm in the process of buying solar panels now - hoping to have them installed by year's end. I just hope if I resell my house there is some resale value in it - one big drawback maybe. And I heat my pool with plain old black tube on my roof. Works great! I'm hoping to make my house stand-alone and self-sufficient within the next 2 years or so.

(end of hijack)

Solar more expensive - sure. But Disney is loaded. I think if anyone can do it, they can. And think of the great PR. It's not impossible by any means. They can personally use my stock in their Co. to get the ball rolling. :lol: That should allow them to take a leadership role in this area. I'd love to see it, but it's probably not likely, unfortunately. Perhaps by using several technologies they can accomplish the goal.

And not all costs are in production $. Coal is also expensive when you factor in other environmental and economic losses associated with coal energy production, and the likely new carbon taxes that will come out of the gov't before too long.

Maybe you can PM me some of those websites you mentioned.

With that, I'll just read the rest of the posts in here. Thanks for the discussion.

Can't wait to ride the eco-friendly busses!

 

[jt04]

Not a good investment until the clowns in Tallahassee decide that here you should get paid at a competitive rate for the surplus power you provide (which, in Florida, can be substantial - the generating potential is really quite good. No need for Germany-sized subsidies here).
While it has the potential to be a great "rooftop solar" state, Florida isn't that great for large-scale solar installations. Compared to the southwest, land prices tend to be higher while the generating potential is a good bit lower - it just takes too long to recoup the investment that way.

Why worry about "Surplus Power" rates? Just buy enough panels to supply your own needs! I thought this was about the good of the panet.

Disney is going to Green buses because it makes "cents" with current technology Solar is not ready.

 

[PeeplMoovr]

I wll ask you also, have you bought Solar panels yet?:shrug:

This discussion is about Disney using green technologies. While not everyone is the solar expert you are, there's nothing wrong with trying to discuss (or urge) the fact that Disney has made strides in going green, but has also come up short in areas.

If you don't believe solar or other non-coal technologies are the way Disney should proceed, that's fine. But please allow other people to ask questions and discuss without giving the impression that if they themselves aren't completely energy independent or are energy engineers then they are "misinformed" or their posts are less valuable than yours.

If I have misread your posts, please forgive me. I get the impression from your last several posts that for you this is about a larger environmental issue and each of us should go solar if we, in fact, believe in it. I, instead, thought we were discussing Disney's green policy specifically - this being a Disney forum and Disney bus thread. Not everyone has the money to invest in other technologies that Disney does

 

[fyn]

Not to mention, solar panels are extremely toxic to the environment both in their production, and in their disposal.

If you want a real shock, find some pictures of the factory that makes batteries for the Prius. There's an environmental dead zone around it for about 2 square miles.

 

[DisneyCane]

From my understanding Nuclear is only the best in the form of a short term solution...because all the nuclear by product needs to be put away for thousands of years...and were do we store all this nuclear waste, underground and in Florida underground means our drinking water. The canals off of Turkey Point (south florida's nuclear power plant) are visible from space and astronauts say they are visible at night because of the phosphorent color they give off at night. That surely is not safe.

The Yuka Mountain project in Nevada will be the place to store nuclear waste. Please provide a source on the phosphorescent canals. I've never heard of that. The cooling water that would be circulated into the canals does not come into contact with any part of the reactor or anything radioactive.

As for the general part of the discussion, Nuclear power is the best practical solution for medium term energy and pollution issues. We have plenty of uranium to run them for far beyond any of our lifetimes (and even longer with breeder reactors). The waste is manageable and it doesn't release any CO2. Whether or not CO2 really contributes to global warming, not releasing any can't be a bad thing.

Unfortunately, all current alternative energy sources have problems. If there was a magic bullet, we'd be using it already. Hydroelectric is very limited in where you can dam and when you do it drastically alters the river that was dammed. Solar cells are not very efficient so they take a lot of area to produce a small amount of power. Also, producing the panels is very energy intensive. Biofuels make no sense. They take energy to grow and harvest and turn into fuel. There is a very minimal energy gain (energy you can get out of the fuel vs. energy it took to produce it) and since they are based on food crops they lead to higher food prices and in some cases food shortages.

I don't tend to agree with France on very much but with power they have it right. France generates 75% of it's electricity with nuclear plants. We should be doing at least the same. Electricity generated with nuclear power can then be used to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen so that we can have Hydrogen produced without emitting CO2 to use for the next generation of motor vehicles.

 

[Master Yoda]

I am a Mechanical Engineer Undergrad, and though I am not an expert on every energy situation, I do know that Nuclear Energy is cleaner and more efficient than most. It does produce nuclear waste, but releases only steam in the mass to energy conversion process and is extremely effecient compared to other forms of harnessing energy. The nuclear waste can be contained... that does not need to be the factor in deciding. Plus, the current technology is much safer than what has failed drastically in the past.


Also, hybrid busses sound interesting. I'm not sure how much more efficient it would really be because of the extremely large weight of a bus. I know they exist, but does anyone have any specs on them?

I am not sure which one Disney tested but the hybrid buses developed by GM were boasting a 60% better fuel economy. There were also substantial reductions in hydrocarbon, CO, particulate and nitrogen oxide emissions.

 

[jt04]

This discussion is about Disney using green technologies. While not everyone is the solar expert you are, there's nothing wrong with trying to discuss (or urge) the fact that Disney has made strides in going green, but has also come up short in areas.

If you don't believe solar or other non-coal technologies are the way Disney should proceed, that's fine. But please allow other people to ask questions and discuss without giving the impression that if they themselves aren't completely energy independent or are energy engineers then they are "misinformed" or their posts are less valuable than yours.

If I have misread your posts, please forgive me. I get the impression from your last several posts that for you this is about a larger environmental issue and each of us should go solar if we, in fact, believe in it. I, instead, thought we were discussing Disney's green policy specifically - this being a Disney forum and Disney bus thread. Not everyone has the money to invest in other technologies that Disney does

True, but I hate to see Disney investing in Technology that is not practical at this time. I love the green buses idea though. Disney is better at inspiring future scientists and technology rather than inventing it. (With some notable exceptions in entertainment technology) My only motivation is to enlighten where I can, not critisize. Three cheers for green buses!!!:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

 

[WDWGuide]

Why worry about "Surplus Power" rates? Just buy enough panels to supply your own needs!

:veryconfu Sadly, the fact that we have things called seasons, clouds, aerosols and such things doesn't make it quite as simple as you seem to think it is.

 

[wdwishes2005]

I thought that they were going to paint the busses green by the thread title...

 

[jt04]

:veryconfu Sadly, the fact that we have things called seasons, clouds, aerosols and such things doesn't make it quite as simple as you seem to think it is.

Yes, this is my whole point!!!! (Aerosols???? You lost me there)

 

[WDWGuide]

Yes, this is my whole point!!!! (Aerosols???? You lost me there)

Aerosols affect insolation by increasing atmospheric albedo and absorption, depending on the type. That's mostly a problem near industrial centers and where coal plants are abundant (though not nearly as much as 40 years ago when emission controls were more or less nonexistant).
Major volcanic eruptions can inject huge amounts of aerosols into the stratosphere, where they can last for months to a couple of years, making for somewhat chillier weather and a less transparent atmosphere for shortwave radiation.

 

[CBOMB]

The Yuka Mountain project in Nevada will be the place to store nuclear waste. Please provide a source on the phosphorescent canals. I've never heard of that. The cooling water that would be circulated into the canals does not come into contact with any part of the reactor or anything radioactive.

As for the general part of the discussion, Nuclear power is the best practical solution for medium term energy and pollution issues. We have plenty of uranium to run them for far beyond any of our lifetimes (and even longer with breeder reactors). The waste is manageable and it doesn't release any CO2. Whether or not CO2 really contributes to global warming, not releasing any can't be a bad thing.

Unfortunately, all current alternative energy sources have problems. If there was a magic bullet, we'd be using it already. Hydroelectric is very limited in where you can dam and when you do it drastically alters the river that was dammed. Solar cells are not very efficient so they take a lot of area to produce a small amount of power. Also, producing the panels is very energy intensive. Biofuels make no sense. They take energy to grow and harvest and turn into fuel. There is a very minimal energy gain (energy you can get out of the fuel vs. energy it took to produce it) and since they are based on food crops they lead to higher food prices and in some cases food shortages.

I don't tend to agree with France on very much but with power they have it right. France generates 75% of it's electricity with nuclear plants. We should be doing at least the same. Electricity generated with nuclear power can then be used to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen so that we can have Hydrogen produced without emitting CO2 to use for the next generation of motor vehicles.

I wish more people understood this. Excellent post.

 

[PeeplMoovr]

Not to mention, solar panels are extremely toxic to the environment both in their production, and in their disposal.

If you want a real shock, find some pictures of the factory that makes batteries for the Prius. There's an environmental dead zone around it for about 2 square miles.

I was under the impression this was one of those de-bunked myths that was redacted by news agencies. The factory is a nickel producer, and Toyota, as I understand it, buys limited quantities (but some, nonetheless) of nickel from this place. This was part of the redaction from one newspaper:

"Your article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.

In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made."

...sorry, thread drift again...

 

[fyn]

I was under the impression this was one of those de-bunked myths that was redacted by news agencies. The factory is a nickel producer, and Toyota, as I understand it, buys limited quantities (but some, nonetheless) of nickel from this place. This was part of the redaction from one newspaper:

"Your article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.

In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made."

...sorry, thread drift again...

I fail to see how pointing out that this factory produced poisonous fumes 30 years ago changes the fact that Toyota sources their nickel for production of the Prius's batteries. The plant is *still* polluting, even moreso than before.

 

[erasure fan1]

You need to do more research with all due respect. IF those panels still work on top of UoE (and that is a BIG if) they can only provide a small amount of the energy needed to run the attraction (AC, lights etc). People are very misinformed about Solar energy! I wll ask you also, have you bought Solar panels yet?:shrug:

Why do I need to do more research? The panels are there, they put them in for a reason and as I remember it it was used for the ride system. If its only used for AC, lights... thats still saving energy isnt it? I am not a solar power expert and maybe I am misinformed, it just makes sence. And I have not bought solar panels yet it costs to much for me, Disney has a bit more money than I will ever have. Just my opinion and nothing else.

 

[jt04]

From my understanding Nuclear is only the best in the form of a short term solution...because all the nuclear by product needs to be put away for thousands of years...and were do we store all this nuclear waste, underground and in Florida underground means our drinking water. The canals off of Turkey Point (south florida's nuclear power plant) are visible from space and astronauts say they are visible at night because of the phosphorent color they give off at night. That surely is not safe.

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: If the canals "glow" it is NOT form nuclear waste. That has got to be greenie propaganda. Nuclear waste having to be put away for 1000's of years ASSUMES no means will be developed to deal with it in the future. Highly Unlikely! Wind, Nuclear, Clean Coal and Green Buses good. Solar cells, not so good (for now!)

 

[WIX]

:sohappy: I LOVE this post:sohappy:

I am a native SF Bay Area girl and you should see the things we have done and are doing here in California.

My DH and I have wondered for YEARS now why the buses and Autopia were not green vehicles. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that they are starting with the buses. Maybe Autopia can be next? They can pipe through speakers on the individual cars the noises the cars make now so you don't lose that effect.

BTW solar works even if it is cloudy and rainy out . . . we have seen it and it does not faulter. The UV rays still come through those clouds. Your meter actually runs backwards from the energy you receive.

 

[jt04]

Why do I need to do more research? The panels are there, they put them in for a reason and as I remember it it was used for the ride system. If its only used for AC, lights... thats still saving energy isnt it? I am not a solar power expert and maybe I am misinformed, it just makes sence. And I have not bought solar panels yet it costs to much for me, Disney has a bit more money than I will ever have. Just my opinion and nothing else.

If they cost too much for you it costs too much for everyone! I meant you need to research Solar in general. There is no way the panels on UoE can power the AC, lights, and the ride vehicles. Not even close. They put them in as a gimmick to inspire thought. NOT because they are practical. Glad I could help inform you