News Disney Vacation Club Announces Expansion at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa

[ToTBellHop]

The GF has never been rated more than 4 stars.

Shhhh...it’s fancy and if it ever reopens, I’ll go to Victoria and Alberts and pronounce Albert like I’m French. Silent t.

I’ll do this while wearing a swimsuit.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I never understood why they never made Yacht/Beach their Flagship Resort instead of Grand Floridian.

In my opinion they are lightyears better than the Grand.

They are by the wrong parks and the rooms are smaller.

 

[dreday3]

They are by the wrong parks and the rooms are smaller.

I think they are by the right parks.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think they are by the right parks.

They’re between a hole in the ground with Test Track and SWGE.

The Grand has CASTLE VIEWS! And a bridge because your $800/night can’t fund acceptable transportation to the parks.

 

[havoc315]

In any event, the fact that this is 200 studios suggests Disney is well aware that people want studios more than other room types, and is leaning into this. The super wealthy will get their 1000-point contracts for a bungalow but they are trying to appeal to the upper middle class, more, including couples with no children. It’s easier to find 15000 families or couples with $25k to blow for “memories” than it is to find 1500 millionaires. Millionaires don’t even stay onsite at Disney anymore.

This goes to how DVC has evolved over time.
It started with OKW (before it was called OKW) as a more traditional timeshare. It was about larger "condo/apartment" units. Those looking for more than a hotel room.

Over time, it evolved more into a loyalty program to pre-purchase your hotel room. Evolved more into a way for those on value/mod budgets to afford regular trips at deluxe resorts.

And the fact is, the studios are far superior "values" compared to the larger units, using cash rentals. One may find they are getting $30-$40+ per point value when renting a studio, and $20 or less in value per point on the larger units. So favoring studios is very "rational" from an economic perspective. If they increased the point cost of studios a bit, dropped the larger units a bit, then you wouldn't find such heavy favoritism for the studios. (It almost feels like they designed the early point charts on the assumption that nobody would want the studios so they priced them very cheaply, and never updated the model).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And the fact is, the studios are far superior "values" to the larger units, compared to cash rentals. One may find they are getting $30-$40+ per point value when renting a studio, and $20 or less in value per point on the larger units. So favoring studios is very "rational" from an economic perspective. If they increased the point cost of studios a bit, dropped the larger units a bit, then you wouldn't find such heavy favoritism for the studios.

That's directionally correct, but it's not quite that severe.

Rack rate value per point across all WDW resorts, excl. Riviera, 2021:

• Studio - $39.01
• 2BR - $33.19
• 3BR GV - $29.98
• Treehouse - $28.72
• 1BR - $28.47
• Cabin - $25.77
• Bungalow - $25.18

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Shhhh...it’s fancy and if it ever reopens, I’ll go to Victoria and Alberts and pronounce Albert like I’m French. Silent t.

I’ll do this while wearing a swimsuit.

Well, V&As is a true 5 diamond experience.

We need the pics of you in a swimsuit eating there.

 

[havoc315]

I just don’t see it happening. You need to keep studios across all resorts in the same ballpark at a given season.

Monkeying around further with seasons is more likely. Another alternative is to significantly increase points for better views, so they could still tell owners at a resort to “just book a standard view at 11 months and you’ll get your full week!”

If a theme park view studio is similar in points to a standard 1BR, people might make the switch for the kitchen.

There is a lot of wiggle room with views, breaking them down into finer categories.
At BLT.... a high floor theme park view is very different than a low floor view.
At Riviera: Some of the standard view rooms have an Epcot view on park with the BLT theme park view, while other standard view rooms are pure parking lot.

Between breaking down views into even more categories, and adjusting the point charts on existing views, you can get a lot of room for adjustments.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This goes to how DVC has evolved over time.
It started with OKW (before it was called OKW) as a more traditional timeshare. It was about larger "condo/apartment" units. Those looking for more than a hotel room.

Over time, it evolved more into a loyalty program to pre-purchase your hotel room. Evolved more into a way for those on value/mod budgets to afford regular trips at deluxe resorts.

And the fact is, the studios are far superior "values" compared to the larger units, using cash rentals. One may find they are getting $30-$40+ per point value when renting a studio, and $20 or less in value per point on the larger units. So favoring studios is very "rational" from an economic perspective. If they increased the point cost of studios a bit, dropped the larger units a bit, then you wouldn't find such heavy favoritism for the studios. (It almost feels like they designed the early point charts on the assumption that nobody would want the studios so they priced them very cheaply, and never updated the model).

I think they have updated the model, but can’t do much at older DVCs because owners bought there with an expectation of how far points will go. By the time they got to Poly, they adjusted for this—building a ton of studios but for about 20% more points per night. I suspect they’ll continue to charge more for studios as new ones come on line.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is a lot of wiggle room with views, breaking them down into finer categories.
At BLT.... a high floor theme park view is very different than a low floor view.
At Riviera: Some of the standard view rooms have an Epcot view on park with the BLT theme park view, while other standard view rooms are pure parking lot.

Between breaking down views into even more categories, and adjusting the point charts on existing views, you can get a lot of room for adjustments.

Making a bunch of granular categories would make it much more difficult for people to find availability without needing to book a split stay. The complicated points charts work at AKV/SSR/Aulani because they're enormous resorts with lots of inventory.

 

[ToTBellHop]

There is a lot of wiggle room with views, breaking them down into finer categories.
At BLT.... a high floor theme park view is very different than a low floor view.
At Riviera: Some of the standard view rooms have an Epcot view on park with the BLT theme park view, while other standard view rooms are pure parking lot.

Between breaking down views into even more categories, and adjusting the point charts on existing views, you can get a lot of room for adjustments.

Absolutely—at bigger DVCs. Some “standard view” could become “bush-view” for an extra 5 points! Smaller DVCs can’t have too many categories.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Absolutely—at bigger DVCs. Some “standard view” could become “bush-view” for an extra 5 points! Smaller DVCs can’t have too many categories.

See above. More categories means fewer rooms per category, which means you'd be booking split stays left and right. It would be an operational nightmare.

 

[havoc315]

That's directionally correct, but it's not quite that severe.

Rack rate value per point across all WDW resorts, excl. Riviera, 2021:

• Studio - $39.01
• 2BR - $33.19
• 3BR GV - $29.98
• Treehouse - $28.72
• 1BR - $28.47
• Cabin - $25.77
• Bungalow - $25.18

Now, factor in typical 15-30% room discounts...

I have an upcoming trip in a 2 bedroom, 8/14-8/22, Riviera 2 BR:

It is 525 points
Rack rate is $13,121 -- $24.99 per point...
But, 25% off is available: $9,841: $18.74 per point
(A 1 bedroom would be even worse, 1 bedroom preferred view would be $6,891 with discount, 422 points... only $16.30 per point)

So as I said, larger units will often fall under $20 per point, while studios will often end up over $30 per point.

 

[ToTBellHop]

See above. More categories means fewer rooms per category, which means you'd be booking split stays left and right. It would be an operational nightmare.

You can also get by with a reshuffle. Change BLT lake view to “lake/nature view” and suddenly a standard view in front of a tree goes to the higher category. They play games like this at the traditional resorts. It’s amazing the different types of water your “water view” can look on. Mosquito-pond? Perfect!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You can also get by with a reshuffle. Change BLT lake view to “lake/nature view” and suddenly a standard view in front of a tree goes to the higher category. They play games like this at the traditional resorts. It’s amazing the different types of water your “water view” can look on. Mosquito-pond? Perfect!

Hey, sometimes it works in the guests' favor! There are some "standard view" rooms in Jambo that are smack on the savanna but there's a pole in your way partially obstructing the view. Best value rooms on property IMO.

 

[CastAStone]

Side note, what site is that? Surprised anyone is getting away with that much scraping on a public site without getting yelled at by some of the DVC companies.

listing | dvc.market DVC search engine

DVC market analysis

dvc.market

@i<3riviera is the mastermind there

 

[havoc315]

See above. More categories means fewer rooms per category, which means you'd be booking split stays left and right. It would be an operational nightmare.

I don't see how that would change split stays in any way. Split stay is about whether your particular room is available, not whether the category is available. Whether they have 100 Standard rooms, or 20 low-standard, 30 regular-standard, 30 standard plus, and 20 premium standard --- That doesn't affect whether you would have to split your stay. You might not find your particular category available for a full stay, but that just means there would be a different category that is available.
You might be "forced" to "upgrade" to the standard plus to avoid a split stay. But that's no different than things exist now, where you can't find a standard studio at the 7 month window.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Did they all even open? A bit too exclusive and ostensibly fancy for me. I like the guarantee of a studio because, at the end of the day, I like the theme and location of the deluxes but can’t stomach the rates. But, I’m in the parks in a t-shirt and shorts, sipping soda and eating a corn dog. Most people at DVCs seem similar. It’s not the country club atmosphere they pretend it is.

It was the Disney Cruise, actually, where I thought, “my goodness, these people are wealthy.” It was subtle, but the designer handbags and brands of clothing on the 7-year olds (think $50 kids t-shirts) were striking. I felt a bit self-conscious dressing the kids in shirts from Target...

it was not designed that way...it never has been that way...and insistence by transient execs aside - it will never be that way

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't see how that would change split stays in any way. Split stay is about whether your particular room is available, not whether the category is available. Whether they have 100 Standard rooms, or 20 low-standard, 30 regular-standard, 30 standard plus, and 20 premium standard --- That doesn't affect whether you would have to split your stay. You might not find your particular category available for a full stay, but that just means there would be a different category that is available.
You might be "forced" to "upgrade" to the standard plus to avoid a split stay. But that's no different than things exist now, where you can't find a standard studio at the 7 month window.

Like this.

If that was a single booking category, you'd be able to book your 7 night stay uninterrupted. Because they're two separate categories, you can't book your 7 night stay uninterrupted in *either* category.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Jeeze can we stop with the Four Seasons comparisons? Yeah, it's way nicer than the Grand. It's also *waaaaaay* more expensive.

(The Grand is outrageously priced, you'll get no argument from me whatsoever.)

are you sure?