News Disney transforms Magic Kingdom's famous purple wall to celebrate PRIDE Month at Walt Disney World and will donate merch profits to support LGBTQIA+

[LittleBuford]

I agree but unfortunately this isn’t always true, some Tampa baseball players are taking heat right now for not wearing pride patches they felt were counter their beliefs, live and let live should go both ways. As long as people aren’t hurting anyone they shouldn’t be shamed for being themselves, whether that is being their gay selves, being their Christian selves, or whatever else their selves are.

I personally do find it hurtful (or at least disheartening) when people declare my innate and immutable nature to be counter to their beliefs, so I’m not sure that the players’ refusal to wear the badge is as harmless as you suggest. They have every right to do as they wish, of course, but that doesn’t mean they’re above criticism for their choice.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Just for fun, I'll bite.

I have no argument in the greater discussion at all (or with you) but since you're asking for it, I'll be the one to say it: your analogy sucks.*

Your suggesting Finnegan's + St. Patrick's day = Disney + Gay Pride Month.

A bar themed (even in a theme park) as an Irish pub having a whole lot going on for a largely Irish celebrated day is a literal no-brainer. People walking into an Irish pub are walking into an Irish pub any day of the year. Unless the Irish sounding name and green logo with a four leaf clover in it was too subtle?

I mean, it's not like they're dying the lagoon green for the day or anything, right?

Unless the whole of WDW has become a universal symbol for all things LGBTQ+ and I just missed it, that's a truly awful comparison.

Now, Hamburger Mary's? There's your Irish Pub comparison to an environment open to all but themed in one very strong direction.**

I'm not taking any issue with what's going on at WDW this month - not more than any other random month over the last decade or so, anyway - but I'll call a bad analogy when the person making it invites the criticism.

For those who don't like the purple wall mural, I'd suggest doing what I do for the other eleven months out of the year, though - ignore it.

Everyone will be happier that way.

How many people unhappy about this, posting or just lurking, already had plans to visit WDW this month, anyway?

*I expect better from your arguments.

**The funny part is for the discussion comparing Disney to Universal in all of this, I could see Citywalk getting a Hamburger Mary's before I could imagine one going into Disney Springs.

I respect you as a poster and think your content is generally very strong, but you're WILDLY off base here. And I think it's worth discussing and expanding the analogy even at the risk of belaboring it, because the central point is key - Pride Month is considered political, controversial, and exclusionary while St. Patrick's isn't because the Irish community is considered "normal" (this hasn't always been the case) and isn't being actively politically persecuted while the LGBTQ is considered "abnormal" by many and is the target of focused political attacks.

The first point is a minor one, but it should be said - Finnegan's is not an Irish Pub, it isn't even really THEMED to an Irish pub (its a set), its a theme park restaurant. The St Patrick's day decorations aren't the work of a proprietor celebrating their heritage, its the work of a megacorporation decorating a theme park, just like the pride mural on the purple wall.

You act as though all of the St. Patrick's day celebrations at the theme parks are entirely localized the Irish Pubs - that's not true. Here's a guide to St Patrick's Day food at Disneyland. Disney World has a similar but less impressive list (our food offerings are ALWAYS less impressive). In addition, there's a significant assortment of special merchandise for St. Patrick's Day. And of course, the Disney characters dress in Irish themed outfits. The celebration is park wide.

Let's go even bigger. Chinese New Year at DCA is a parkwide celebration that is bigger then any other festival at the park except, perhaps, Christmas. It's a celebration of Chinese identity that dwarfs Pride Month. Is it exclusionary? Offensive?

Now let's step back to discuss the issue of Irish pubs. Such Pubs can serve as focal points for the St Patrick's Day celebration at Universal and Disney because there are several of them in the Orlando parks - Finnegan's, Raglan Road, Pat O'Brien's. It's not a coincidence, of course, that there are no LGBTQ themed bars or restaurants to serve as the focus of Pride Month activities. And if Disney were to open such a restaurant - or a Hamburger Mary's - the howls of the posters kvetching about a pride mural would be far, far louder. Cables news programs would feast on the story for months. Local and national politicians would be apoplectic and, in the current environment, would almost certainly introduce legislation designed to harm the company. The slurs already levelled at Disney would become deafening. So... yeah, arguing that Disney could just open an LGBTQ restaurant to focus the Pride Month activities is disingenuous. We need to think about why they haven't, and won't, do that.

Finally, I'm by no means an expert on the topic, but its my understanding that Disney DOES hold special meaning for a significant portion of the LGBTQ community. Its one of the reasons that Chapek's disgustingly clumsy efforts to dodge controversy earlier this year were doomed to failure.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I respect you as a poster and think your content is generally very strong, but you're WILDLY off base here. And I think it's worth discussing and expanding the analogy even at the risk of belaboring it, because the central point is key - Pride Month is considered political, controversial, and exclusionary while St. Patrick's isn't because the Irish community is considered "normal" (this hasn't always been the case) and isn't being actively politically persecuted while the LGBTQ is considered "abnormal" by many and is the target of focused political attacks.

The first point is a minor one, but it should be said - Finnegan's is not an Irish Pub, it isn't even really THEMED to an Irish pub (its a set), its a theme park restaurant. The St Patrick's day decorations aren't the work of a proprietor celebrating their heritage, its the work of a megacorporation decorating a theme park, just like the pride mural on the purple wall.

You act as though all of the St. Patrick's day celebrations at the theme parks are entirely localized the Irish Pubs - that's not true. Here's a guide to St Patrick's Day food at Disneyland. Disney World has a similar but less impressive list (our food offerings are ALWAYS less impressive). In addition, there's a significant assortment of special merchandise for St. Patrick's Day. The celebration is park wide.

Let's go even bigger. Chinese New Year at DCA is a parkwide celebration that is bigger then any other festival at the park except, perhaps, Christmas. It's a celebration of Chinese identity that dwarfs Pride Month. Is it exclusionary? Offensive?

Now let's step back to discuss the issue of Irish pubs. Such Pubs can serve as focal points for the St Patrick's Day celebration at Universal and Disney because there are several of them in the Orlando parks - Finnegan's, Raglan Road, Pat O'Brien's. It's not a coincidence, of course, that there are no LGBTQ themed bars or restaurants to serve as the focus of Pride Month activities. And if Disney were to open such a restaurant - or a Hamburger Mary's - the howls of the posters kvetching about a pride mural would be far, far louder. Cables news programs would feast on the story for months. Local and national politicians would be apoplectic and, in the current environment, would almost certainly introduce legislation designed to harm the company. The slurs already levelled at Disney would become deafening. So... yeah, arguing that Disney could just open an LGBTQ restaurant to focus the Pride Month activities is disingenuous. We need to think about why they haven't, and won't, do that.

Finally, I'm by no means an expert on the top, but its my understanding that Disney DOES hold special meaning for a significant portion of the LGBTQ community. Its one of the reasons that Chapek's disgustingly clumsy efforts to dodge controversy earlier this year were doomed to failure.

Perfectly stated. THANK YOU.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I personally do find it hurtful (or at least disheartening) when people declare my innate and immutable nature to be counter to their beliefs, so I’m not sure that the players’ refusal to wear the badge is as harmless as you suggest. They have every right to do as they wish, of course, but that doesn’t mean they’re above criticism for their choice.

This response made me think of Dumbledores message to Hagrid when he was upset that not everyone liked him, “if you are holding out for universal popularity I’m afraid you’ll be in this cabin for a very long time”. These players didn’t go out their way to declare something against gay people, they were put in a no win situation by their employer and made a statement saying they welcome and love gay people but thought physically promoting it was contrary to their beliefs.

In my lifetime the gay equality fight has gone from hiding to avoid being disowned or killed, to getting same sex insurance, to legalized gay marriage... now the fight is the right being upset about a painted wall and the left being upset someone didn’t wear a patch? Talk about progress, if walls and patches are now worthy of debate maybe equality has been reached.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

This response made me think of Dumbledores message to Hagrid when he was upset that not everyone liked him, “if you are holding out for universal popularity I’m afraid you’ll be in this cabin for a very long time”. These players didn’t go out their way to declare something against gay people, they were put in a no win situation by their employer and made a statement saying they welcome and love gay people but thought physically promoting it was contrary to their beliefs.

In my lifetime the gay equality fight has gone from hiding to avoid being disowned or killed, to getting same sex insurance, to legalized gay marriage... now the fight is the right being upset about a painted wall and the left being upset someone didn’t wear a patch? Talk about progress, if walls and patches are now worthy of debate maybe equality has been reached.

You think there aren't people hiding to avoid being disowned? Take a look at the suicide rates among gay teens and let me know if equality has been reached. Try being a gay or lesbian person trying to be a pastor in the majority of Christian churches and tell me equality has been reached. Give me a brake. I'm sure the mods see it your way so this will probably not last.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You think there aren't people hiding to avoid being disowned? Take a look at the suicide rates among gay teens and let me know if equality has been reached. Try being a gay or lesbian person trying to be a pastor in the majority of Christian churches and tell me equality has been reached. Give me a brake. I'm sure the mods see it your way so this will probably not last.

I know those things still happen, which is why I find anger or hurt over minor things like patches and walls kind of ridiculous. As I said earlier I wish everyone would just live and let live, if it would make life easier for everyone.

I just think people looking for 100% acceptance are doomed to be disappointed, I’m a straight white Christian male so a lot of people think I’m responsible for all the worlds problems, not a day goes by that I don’t see Christianity mocked, see straight people mocked, and see white people mocked... that’s just life, there’s a lot of angry people out there who hate and blame (insert any group) for the worlds problems, rather than letting the people who disagree with my “lifestyle” get to me though I just ignore them.

 

[SpectroMan93]

I know those things still happen, which is why I find anger or hurt over minor things like patches and walls kind of ridiculous. As I said earlier I wish everyone would just live and let live, if it would make life easier for everyone.

I just think people looking for 100% acceptance are doomed to be disappointed, I’m a straight white Christian male so a lot of people think I’m responsible for all the worlds problems, not a day goes by that I don’t see Christianity mocked, see straight people mocked, and see white people mocked... that’s just life, there’s a lot of angry people out there who hate and blame (insert any group) for the worlds problems, rather than letting the people who disagree with my “lifestyle” get to me though I just ignore them.

And what about when those who disagree with my “lifestyle” are people in positions of power to take away my rights? To spur the masses with anger and hatred toward me and even harm me and my community? With all due respect, you don’t know what it’s like to live with that fear almost the entirety of your life. And now that we are inching closer to equality people tell us to get over it. No sir. This fight is beyond walls and patches. And as trivial as it is, gestures like the painted walls go a long way in telling young queer children that there are spaces and people out there that they are loved and accepted. I wish I had that growing up. And you should be grateful you don’t know what that’s like to grow up being taught to hate who you are at your core.

 

[MrPromey]

I respect you as a poster and think your content is generally very strong, but you're WILDLY off base here. And I think it's worth discussing and expanding the analogy even at the risk of belaboring it, because the central point is key - Pride Month is considered political, controversial, and exclusionary while St. Patrick's isn't because the Irish community is considered "normal" (this hasn't always been the case) and isn't being actively politically persecuted while the LGBTQ is considered "abnormal" by many and is the target of focused political attacks.

The first point is a minor one, but it should be said - Finnegan's is not an Irish Pub, it isn't even really THEMED to an Irish pub (its a set), its a theme park restaurant. The St Patrick's day decorations aren't the work of a proprietor celebrating their heritage, its the work of a megacorporation decorating a theme park, just like the pride mural on the purple wall.

You act as though all of the St. Patrick's day celebrations at the theme parks are entirely localized the Irish Pubs - that's not true. Here's a guide to St Patrick's Day food at Disneyland. Disney World has a similar but less impressive list (our food offerings are ALWAYS less impressive). In addition, there's a significant assortment of special merchandise for St. Patrick's Day. And of course, the Disney characters dress in Irish themed outfits. The celebration is park wide.

Let's go even bigger. Chinese New Year at DCA is a parkwide celebration that is bigger then any other festival at the park except, perhaps, Christmas. It's a celebration of Chinese identity that dwarfs Pride Month. Is it exclusionary? Offensive?

Now let's step back to discuss the issue of Irish pubs. Such Pubs can serve as focal points for the St Patrick's Day celebration at Universal and Disney because there are several of them in the Orlando parks - Finnegan's, Raglan Road, Pat O'Brien's. It's not a coincidence, of course, that there are no LGBTQ themed bars or restaurants to serve as the focus of Pride Month activities. And if Disney were to open such a restaurant - or a Hamburger Mary's - the howls of the posters kvetching about a pride mural would be far, far louder. Cables news programs would feast on the story for months. Local and national politicians would be apoplectic and, in the current environment, would almost certainly introduce legislation designed to harm the company. The slurs already levelled at Disney would become deafening. So... yeah, arguing that Disney could just open an LGBTQ restaurant to focus the Pride Month activities is disingenuous. We need to think about why they haven't, and won't, do that.

Finally, I'm by no means an expert on the topic, but its my understanding that Disney DOES hold special meaning for a significant portion of the LGBTQ community. Its one of the reasons that Chapek's disgustingly clumsy efforts to dodge controversy earlier this year were doomed to failure.

I respect you, too. I also respect this subject so I'm going to try to be brief even though I expect to be too long. (who am I kidding? I always go too long.)

You threw Finnegan's (a themed pub, storefront, whatever you want to consider it) out there in your original post and then kind of taunted that nobody took the bite. I was mostly just being a smart-a$$ but given the general tone of this thread, it probably wasn't the place for it. That said, you gotta admit your response is a much wider statement than your original post was.

And regarding your response, I agree completely with where your heart is on this.

As far as St. Patty's day celebrations in general, I think most of the chain Mexican restaurants celebrating Cinco de Mayo are doing about as much for Mexico by using a holiday most Mexican's don't even celebrate to sling beer and tequila in the US as the chain pubs in the US are doing using St. Patty's to celebrate Irish culture and the Catholic church by slinging beer and whiskey but that's a whole other subject.*

As for Disney holding a special place in anyone's heart, I know that to be true of multiple groups but that doesn't give any of them (any of us) exclusive ownership of the company or the brand and it's obvious that Disney has walked a fine line on this subject for a long time.**

If that's how it worked, Star Wars stuff would all be essentially Snakes on a Plane at this point - everyone would still hate it but they'd have nobody to blame but themselves - an awful analogy on my part but I think you get my point.

Again, though, regarding the subject of this thread, I still fail to understand how anyone is being hurt by what Disney is doing. I question their [Disney's] motives in light of current events and I roll my eyes at yet another effort for WDW to trend on Instagram but that's just me being cynical and I continue to openly question who around here that might be making a stink or who are "confused" actually had June plans to visit that they now feel are ruined by any of this.

I'd really love to hear from these people about when their visit is and how they think this is going to mess up their trip.

BTW, this post is the better I expected of you.

*I have no idea how the parks celebrate St. Patrick's because I do my best to stay off the roads on "holidays" like that but I take your word for it and I'm sure a google search would prove you right.

**including being quetly inclusive on multiple levels even when it was not popular to do so.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

And what about when those who disagree with my “lifestyle” are people in positions of power to take away my rights? To spur the masses with anger and hatred toward me and even harm me and my community? With all due respect, you don’t know what it’s like to live with that fear almost the entirety of your life. And now that we are inching closer to equality people tell us to get over it. No sir. This fight is beyond walls and patches. And as trivial as it is, gestures like the painted walls go a long way in telling young queer children that there are spaces and people out there that they are loved and accepted. I wish I had that growing up. And you should be grateful you don’t know what that’s like to grow up being taught to hate who you are at your core.

You are correct, I’ve thankfully never experienced anything even close to that, but what you describe (spur the masses with anger and hatred toward me) is what’s happening with cancel culture now, you don’t end an injustice by doing the same things you’re fighting to end.

 

[LittleBuford]

This response made me think of Dumbledores message to Hagrid when he was upset that not everyone liked him, “if you are holding out for universal popularity I’m afraid you’ll be in this cabin for a very long time”.

It really isn’t about being liked, though. I have no problem with being unpopular. Being scorned and discriminated against because of an immutable characteristic is another matter, however.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I haven’t seen any other groups get a mural in the parks - so I’m not sure this is equal.

You have seen what Christmas gets, right?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I love it. I appreciate it.

I don’t need purity tests. I don’t need them to donate proceeds to prove legitimacy or sincerity.

I’m old enough to remember when no company would dare do anything to support the LGBT community or sell such merchandise. It was too controversial.

The fact that it is even possible for it to be “good business” to show support for us is something to celebrate, not to cynically bash as “commercialism” or to feel entitled to more/better. They have no obligation to do anything. They didn’t do anything for most of my lifetime.

I never saw *any* LGBT themed anything when I first started going to WDW 20+ years ago. They used to go out of their way to distance themselves from GayDays, while fully supporting the Christian “Night of Joy.”

It wasn’t a long time ago I found the first Mickey head-shaped keychain in rainbow colors and bought it to hang on my Christmas tree. I was so happy to find it, even though I figured the design was coincidental rather than intentional. There was no other merch like that anywhere.

To see a whole display, hey that just gives me more options from which to choose when I shop. We’ve never had that option before. That’s too important to just poo-poo it.

I guess the fact that gay youth can take this for granted to such a degree they can be nit picky about it means we who marched have done our jobs.

 

[Brian]

I'm not trying to start anything here, but acknowledging the "other side" as a difference of opinion is already validating that other side. By conceding that LGBTQ+ rights are a matter of opinion, you've already lost in defense of those rights.

This is a common and effective debate tactic and a harder stance in support of those rights should be established. I know you're trying to play peacekeeper here as a moderator, but I for one would be 100% in support of the immediate deletion of any post for any dissenting argument against LGBTQ+ rights, representation or anything else on these forums.

I don't know what was said, as I'm sure you promptly deleted it (as you should), but referring to such posts as "differing opinions" diminishes what's actually going on here.

You are, in fact, "starting something" when you openly advocate against any dissenting opinion to even be allowed to exist. In fact, it is emblematic of ostensibly the biggest problem in society today.

It's astounding to me how some people can be so deeply entrenched in their own beliefs that they can't even fathom a scenario wherein a dissenting opinion has any value... Worse yet, believing that it should be censored without delay nor consideration.

 

[Brian]

Are there any atheists with a shot at President? Any on the Supreme Court? How about a gay man on the court? Don't worry, these aren't your problems.

Pick the best person for the job. If that happens to be an atheist, great. A gay man on SCOTUS? Fantastic. If he's the best available candidate to meet the needs of the moment, by all means.

Picking people based on their religion, sexual orientation, race, etc, is, in fact, bigoted, even if you agree with the outcome.

And what about when those who disagree with my “lifestyle” are people in positions of power to take away my rights? To spur the masses with anger and hatred toward me and even harm me and my community? With all due respect, you don’t know what it’s like to live with that fear almost the entirety of your life. And now that we are inching closer to equality people tell us to get over it. No sir. This fight is beyond walls and patches. And as trivial as it is, gestures like the painted walls go a long way in telling young queer children that there are spaces and people out there that they are loved and accepted. I wish I had that growing up. And you should be grateful you don’t know what that’s like to grow up being taught to hate who you are at your core.

What rights have been taken away from you?

 

[spacemt354]

Talk to me about your rainbow virtue signals when you achieve that kind of staying power and representation.

The lack of 'staying power and representation' over generations is precisely a reason for Pride month to be celebrated.

How can one achieve such a feat of acceptance without the opportunity to be accepted?

 

[Brian]

The poster to whom you were responding was discussing LGBTQ rights.

It seems that your position is that LGBT rights are being denied, given that you said:

Nah, I don’t think one of the biggest problems in modern America is a refusal to see the value in the opinion that certain people should be denied civil rights because of how they were born. I think one of the biggest problems in modern America is the monstrous number of citizens who hold the opinion that certain people should be denied civil rights because of how they were born.

I'd welcome you, or anyone else, to provide some examples of how civil rights in the U.S. are being routinely denied to LGBT people.

 

[Brian]

The lack of 'staying power and representation' over generations is precisely a reason for Pride month to be celebrated.

How can one achieve such a feat of acceptance without the opportunity to be accepted?

My argument is that comparing Christmas to pride month is like comparing Magic Kingdom to your local county fair. Each has some value, but one is far more beloved than the other.

 

[spacemt354]

My argument is that comparing Christmas to pride month is like comparing Magic Kingdom to your local county fair. Each has some value, but one is far more beloved than the other.

With the stats you listed of 79.5% identified Christians and 7.1% LGBTQ, the extent of decorations Disney has displayed for Christmas vs Pride Month is pretty representable of those percentages.

The comparison is made because none of these discussions happen when there are trees in every resort lobby or attraction overlays, but when there's a rainbow mural and some non-profit merchandise for a good cause that is apparently what strikes dissent.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You are, in fact, "starting something" when you openly advocate against any dissenting opinion to even be allowed to exist. In fact, it is emblematic of ostensibly the biggest problem in society today.

It's astounding to me how some people can be so deeply entrenched in their own beliefs that they can't even fathom a scenario wherein a dissenting opinion has any value... Worse yet, believing that it should be censored without delay nor consideration.

Is there a valid dissenting opinion to the opposition of slavery?

This feels just as obvious. Equal rights are non-negotiable and never should have been left up to public opinion.

This is precisely why we still need Pride events.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Nearly one-third of the entire world identifies as Christian, and 79.5% of Americans identify as such. Not only that, but Christmas has been a celebration observed in vast swaths of the world for the better part of two millennia.

For context, 7.1% of Americans identify as LGBT, and the concept of pride month is, at best, just over two decades old.

Talk to me about your rainbow virtue signals when you achieve that kind of staying power and representation.



Are you honestly suggesting that because gay or lesbian people can't become pastors in Christian churches that true "equality" hasn't been reached?

Like it or not, homosexuality flies in the face of Christian teaching. Suggesting that the churches are somehow obligated to accept gay or lesbian folks as pastors in order for LGBT people to achieve equality is mind-boggling.

Why not make churches perform abortions too, while we're at it?

Close to half of those LGBT are Christians.

Who are you to argue how God made us?

Dig deeper into your faith. I had to, as well.

This discussion is veering into the inappropriate and might get deleted.