Disney to increase the number of FastPass+ entitlements per day and include park hopping

habuma

Well-Known Member
...this is quickly looking like the old system, just the media is changed...

I was thinking the exact same thing. The only key difference is that you can't get that 4th/5th/6th/nth FP until after you've burned through the 3 you make in advance. I'm not sure yet if I like that or not, but I think I like it better than the current 3-then-out model.

As has already been mentioned, this will certainly change the strategy to one where you burn through those first 3 FPs as early as possible so that you can maximize your use of bonus FPs throughout the day. In a best-fit scenario, that means that if MK opens at 9am, you'll be ready to claim your 4th FP by noon. Those first 3-4 hours are going to suddenly get more difficult to secure the FP in advance and I suspect will have a negative effect on the standby lines during those hours. My strategy of getting a FP for TSMM for 9:30-10:30 and rushing to the standby line at rope-drop so that I can ride it twice (once standby, once FP) may not work as well anymore.

While I REALLY don't want people walking around staring at their phones, I admit that I would like the convenience of claiming my bonus FPs on my phone rather than having to find a kiosk. But again, that's the old FP way, so I guess it won't be too bad if I have to do that.
 

Kuzcotopia

Well-Known Member
It's a really popular color, Never understood why Disney chose grey as the 'default' band color.

I actually picked a yellow one. I was hoping this would be te least popular, increasing my odds of finding it again when I inevitably lose it in the parks.

"Oh, of course sir, the YELLOW one. Never seen one of those before. . . It's right here on this fancy pillow we reserve for rare items!"
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Disney had been claiming that they were getting something like a ridiculous 98% "positive feedback on social media" around FP+ and the MagicBands. But now they are "listening to guest feedback" with the changes they've announced they are working on? So people must have been saying, "The FP+ system is great! I only wish I had more FP+ opportunities!" or something like that?? To me, this sounds a lot like some damage control happening.

More than 3 FP+'s is good. Park hopping should have been included from the beginning. But if they were to get rid of the tiers, though, there would probably be rioting because we all know what would happen. :(

I do give them credit for the changes in the announcement, however. It makes the whole initial FP+ roll out seem a little less like a car full of drunken clowns driving down I-4...
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Why? Disney could have easily charged under the old system for an unlimited FP card, or for X number of "golden" FPs that were good at any attraction. But they didn't. Can we maybe not complain about them charging for FP+ until they actually, you know, charge for FP+?

Yep. Especially since many other parks already charge for similar "front of the line" systems so Disney charging for paper FP would not have been extraordinary or unreasonable. In fact, there have been some companies who started off with having a free system and then switched to a pay system (I'm looking at you, Universal)

I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of Disney charging for FP+ in some way -- though I definitely expect the basic 3 FP+/day to remain free. But I don't the point in suggesting that Disney is definitely going to charge for FP+ when they never had previously despite ample opportunity. History suggests that Disney will keep this as a free system.
 
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Rescue Ranger

Well-Known Member
Awesome news!!!
I'm glad I am waiting until next May(2015) to go back. Too much up in the air and too many things not sorted or smoothed out. And lots of good construction going on. Hopefully by then it will be more orderly. Things are shaping up very nicely though it looks. Takes time.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
For Disney to shell out (the rumored) $2 billion on the MM+ system, which includes the bands and FP+ system, you better believe they've had their eye on charging for some sort of plus-feature with FP+. Data is money, without a doubt, but money in their cash registers is worth more to them. They are going to monetize the $$$$ out of this in any, and every, way they can.

Magical Express = Free. True, but compare room prices with other off-site hotels and it's not difficult to see that you are paying for ME, it's just hidden in the cost of the room.
 

Fractal514

Well-Known Member
I like that you can have "unlimited" FP now basically, but I don't really like that you have to use the first 3 to "unlock" the limited feature, if that makes sense.

Before, I would use the 3 FP and spread them out throughout the day, start on one side of the park and work our way around to the other (we r not park hop people). Now it seems kid d confusing?

I guess try to use all 3 on one half of the park, and then use the unlimited for more?

It should be choose 1 before you leave and once it's used you get more, so on and so forth...

Again it's all a trade off, and people have to make choices. If you want a late afternoon or evening FP, then you get that and get to enjoy it. If you take morning FP, when you likely don't need them as much, then you might be able to get more. A lot of folks seem to want to have everything without making any trade-offs and I just don't think that's realistic.
 

MonorailMan

Active Member
As figured, we all knew that Disney would eventually make some changes to the system, but likely the most surprising fact is how fast and timely Disney announced that they were going to make these much wanted changes.... Lets just see how long it takes for Disney to actually make these changes to the FP+ system!
 

WDWResort

Active Member
About time they do this! Should've been an option from getgo. The main reason I have an AP is to park hop and FP+ really discourages it.
 

Cubfan300

Active Member
Ok, let me try to explain this again. I feel like a lot of people don't get the concept of market research / big data. So for an illustration:

Target, Sears, and who knows how many retailers have customer loyalty cards right? Believe it or not, they don't give you these cards so you can save $5 a month. They're tied to a database that keeps track of everything you buy, when you did it, how often you buy each item, etc. Now the stores aren't prudes that want to know specifically when you, John Doe, buy toilet paper. They don't care. But, when extrapolated, they can see the habits of millions of people at large, and when they tend to buy toilet paper. And THIS is where the financial benefit come in. With this relatively small amount of information they can surmise all sorts of buying habits and preferences which work both to benefit you the consumer and the company. They know when and what brand of toilet paper you buy, and thus can offer you a coupon for it right when you need it: which gets you into their store over someone else's. The systems are enormously sophisticated. Target can determine with like 95% accuracy when a women is pregnant, often before she knows it. And naturally offer baby products for a discount, and get you into their store over others. And even more so - offer products the person might not even know they want. For instance they might observe that people buying lots of baby supplies also buy a lot of pickles and they can use that to their advantage. The same data will let them know which products are successful, which aren't, and exactly how successful they are - which can determine the best price to sell them at. The benefits go on an on and on. And all this from relatively little data - just your purchase history, and maybe a few demographic marks.

Contrast this to MM+ which not only can do everything above, but actually know what a person plans to do vs. what they actually do, where they go in the park on a minute by minute basis, how long they're there, what they do, what they buy at what time, after doing what, etc. etc. etc. The value of this information IS $billions. Again, not so much from knowing what you individually are doing - there's some benefit there, but that is largely not important. It's the value of the information in aggregate. And I can't stress enough the benefit flows both ways here. The more Disney knows about its guests habits the more it can try to influence them and by doing so create more even distribution of crowds as well as provide the kind of experiences guests actually want rather than say they want. On Disney's side it enables much more efficient scheduling, marketing, operations, price -structuring, and more.

This is why I maintain that MM+ is likely to remain largely free, as well as why Disney is going to continue its efforts to make it the most pleasant, attractive, glossy experience possible. Because they want EVERYONE to use it and they want them to LIKE using it. The system is less valuable if only fans, commandos, or resort guests are using it. Sure there is probably money to be made in offering perks for a price, but only if those perks don't detract from as many people as possible using the system.

I hope that does at least an ok job of explaining the logic behind it all. Management at Disney is not a bunch of inept fools spending billions of dollars on slightly more convenient turnstiles. They are incredibly shrewd businessmen.
I made these exact types of statements in another thread and got vilified by some. Big data is huge (forgive the pun) and the cost expended to create this system will be made up in volume in a relatively short period of time and will continue to pay benefits for years. Glad to see someone else on the boards who understands this concept and why, from Disney's perspective, it is a huge win.
 

Maerj

Well-Known Member
I requested a limited edition Star Wars Weekends Magic Band. They replied with something like, although that's a great idea, we have no plans to do that. You can customize them though. At least they replied.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Glad to see someone else on the boards who understands this concept and why, from Disney's perspective, it is a huge win.

You guys are just late to the party. All that was discussed back in 2012 when the RFID stuff became formally known.

Do searches on 'analytics' or 'data mining' and you'll see all the action back then.

Examples:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...you-go-what-you-do.874939/page-3#post-5744773

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/numbers-cars-and-quality.856357/page-18#post-5225597

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ions-and-opinions.857322/page-61#post-5265313
 

Cubfan300

Active Member
There is a world of difference between what you do for operations vs what you do for projects intended for sales or consumption. "IT" is not "Product Development"... IT is services and platforms.. not what you produce and sell. You don't roadmap your internal platforms to your customers unless that is what they are buying.. but you roadmap the products and services that rely upon those IT services and platforms. And even in IT, you are expected to roadmap your future not only for your own budgeting, but so that your consumers are ready for it as well.

When you work with large customers who deal with long term budgets and planning.. you don't say "Suprise!! we just sprung all new products on you and we won't tell you at all our intentions going forward for them!". Well some do.. and they are dispised for the very reasons Disney has been getting bad blood here. People can't plan their future movements and get far more misinformation than actual information.

No one is expecting Disney to roadmap their internal facing needs - but simple things like "Who will have access to the service" is not 'in the weeds' but strategic choices about the product Disney should be up front about.
Let's try it this way, and then I'm done. Let's say Disney did announce that upon the launching of FP+ they said that the first 9 months people who use FP+ will first be able to use it with legacy FP, then after 6 months of "testing", they would remove the legacy machines, limiting everyone to just 3 FP+. Then 4-6 months later, you would be able add a 4th or more FP+ after the first 3 were gone. Can you imagine what attendance numbers would look like from Jan 1 to now? Non-existent as people would wait until the system was fully rolled out and they wouldn't be "limited" to just 3 FP+. They did this the only way they could and I think that they pulled off brilliantly.
 

mweier

Well-Known Member
There is a world of difference between what you do for operations vs what you do for projects intended for sales or consumption. "IT" is not "Product Development"... IT is services and platforms.. not what you produce and sell. You don't roadmap your internal platforms to your customers unless that is what they are buying.. but you roadmap the products and services that rely upon those IT services and platforms. And even in IT, you are expected to roadmap your future not only for your own budgeting, but so that your consumers are ready for it as well.

When you work with large customers who deal with long term budgets and planning.. you don't say "Suprise!! we just sprung all new products on you and we won't tell you at all our intentions going forward for them!". Well some do.. and they are dispised for the very reasons Disney has been getting bad blood here. People can't plan their future movements and get far more misinformation than actual information.

No one is expecting Disney to roadmap their internal facing needs - but simple things like "Who will have access to the service" is not 'in the weeds' but strategic choices about the product Disney should be up front about.

I agree that there's a big difference between IT/Ops projects and those meant for public consumption. However, it's worth pointing out that the whole shebang revolves around managing expectations. Customers should buy your product based on its immediate value, not its proposed eventual value further down a roadmap. This is fundamentally different from a corporate software client who is in effect "buying the roadmap" and collaborating on the dev cycle vs. an end-user customer who just wants it to work in every awesome way possible.

Managing expectations (especially when using Agile development) involves sharing with the project team which user stories are currently fitting within budget, and having the flexibility to let lower priority tasks fall by the wayside if time/budget constraints promote other higher priority items as deserving the most effort. Letting go of a feature you can imagine yourself using is not always easy, and becomes a potential $h!tst0rm to manage once the public & PR get involved.

If Disney were to have made all the promises of FP+ configuration options and experimentation paths public from the start, it may have resolved some of the public's anxiety over "what's it gonna be when it's 'done'", but it also creates potentially unreasonable expectations by the public that the product development lifecycle will never reveal higher priority issues that needed time/resources more than something in an earlier roadmap. I think the main point should be that it will never be "done" but a constantly evolving thing with control parameters that can be adapted to changing crowd patterns (much like the parks themselves!)

I am not a fan of lack of transparency by any means, but managing expectations (especially highly invested customer expectations) is an art form that can and should refrain from over promising a kitchen sink full of features to an angry crowd with torches until such time as it's guaranteed that these features will be available by X date.
 

Cubfan300

Active Member
You guys are just late to the party. All that was discussed back in 2012 when the RFID stuff became formally known.

Do searches on 'analytics' or 'data mining' and you'll see all the action back then.

Examples:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...you-go-what-you-do.874939/page-3#post-5744773

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/numbers-cars-and-quality.856357/page-18#post-5225597

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ions-and-opinions.857322/page-61#post-5265313
Dude, your desire to be right pays off.....you win, I'm out <mike drop>
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Let's try it this way, and then I'm done. Let's say Disney did announce that upon the launching of FP+ they said that the first 9 months people who use FP+ will first be able to use it with legacy FP, then after 6 months of "testing", they would remove the legacy machines, limiting everyone to just 3 FP+. Then 4-6 months later, you would be able add a 4th or more FP+ after the first 3 were gone. Can you imagine what attendance numbers would look like from Jan 1 to now? Non-existent as people would wait until the system was fully rolled out and they wouldn't be "limited" to just 3 FP+. They did this the only way they could and I think that they pulled off brilliantly.

No, you missed what I said. I never said commit to dates. Roadmapping their intentions does not require committing to specific release dates or even release vehicles. It would provide the outline to people so they would stop worrying about "Am I going to need to stay in a Deluxe Onsite to get access to FP+?". It would acknowledge the reality that they are doing this in phases and people would not have axieity over "Is Disney abandoning me as a customer?". It would provide assurances on Disney's intentions with the program. Something they have really failed at over the last year plus with their zero look-ahead strategy.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how this is actually implemented. What happens in the event of one of your FP+ being very late, or for example IllumiNations. Does that then really lock you into 3 per day, as the park will be closed once the third is used and the 4th becomes available.
One of the options on the survey was that a guest could always hold 3 FP reservations. It sounds like they're going for the option that requires all FP to be used.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
LOL Disney does what people want and still some trying to turn a negative tone towards Disney on this. Gotta love the Disney bashing crowd, they could find some evil in a baby's smile....

Just did all of my FP+ yesterday, guess I gotta rework em some now :)
 

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