Disney to increase the number of FastPass+ entitlements per day and include park hopping

Cubfan300

Active Member
wth? "keeping secrets" is no part of any legitimate software development cycle. Anyone who keeps things secret 'in case you run into issues' is the 'antithesis' of sound development practices. Agility is the foundation for adapting to unforeseen issues... not hiding it from people. And NONE of that is reasons for keeping roadmaps secret. The top two reasons for secrecy in product development is keeping the competition at bay and protecting existing sales.

The key to solid customer relationships is trust - not 'need to know'.
Not keeping secrets....more of a "don't announce to the world your strategic project plan". Ugh. I've been doing this, software development, for almost 30 years. I have never worked for a company, and I worked for 3 Fortune 500 firms and now the U.S. Army, and in none of them did we ever publicly disclose our IT project plans in detail. We would imply what the plans were, but they were 10000 ft. level ideas.
 

Disneyfamily4

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be so sure. Another poster on here was able to "test" the park hopping feature and they were able to pick 3 fp+ in each park but headliners such as space mountain and etc. were blocked off.


Yes that was me.

After you got into the 2nd park and went to the App, each ride is listed for fast pass selections to chose your 3. For the 5 or so days I parked hopped, the App always had Thunder mountain and Space Mountain unclickable, listing it as "high volume, unavailable". Splash mountain was listed like that as well for the first few days, but the last couple times it was available, which is when the weather was cooler as well.

All of this was shown to me by a cast member in POR on the 20th. I asked her why this isn't announce yet and she said it soon will be. Two weeks later it is announced and I am glad I got to use it.
 

Virtual Toad

Well-Known Member
The challenge they have to figure out is how to ensure that a guest doesn't use Park Hopping to book Midway Mania, Soarin, and Expedition Everest on the same day.

I just don't see how that would even be possible, except on *very* slow days. The FP+ demand for headliner attractions is only going to increase. The given ride capacity will not. FPs for TSMM and Soarin were already gone mid-morning on most days using the old system. I suspect with advance booking they'll go even faster. I love the fantasy of FP+ for TSMM in the morning, Soarin in the afternoon and EE in the evening, but even IF you could do it, that's about all you'd get to do all day.

I'll be booking my three advance afternoon/evening FPs and whatever else is available, while sleeping in. :)
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
I just don't see how that would even be possible, except on *very* slow days. The FP+ demand for headliner attractions is only going to increase. The given ride capacity will not. FPs for TSMM and Soarin were already gone mid-morning on most days using the old system. I suspect with advance booking they'll go even faster. I love the fantasy of FP+ for TSMM in the morning, Soarin in the afternoon and EE in the evening, but even IF you could do it, that's about all you'd get to do all day.

I'll be booking my three advance afternoon/evening FPs and whatever else is available, while sleeping in. :)
Amazingly I found this to be opposite of the truth, on a regular day there was no way on this earth that I would be able to book a fastpass for toystory midway mania unless I was in that park by 10:00 oclock. However on a recent trip to disney during spring break mind you, I was able to book a fastpass for toystory at 12:00 oclock on my phone. The fastpass was for 3:30. To say I was shocked is an understatement.
 

ShookieJones

We need time for things to happen.
I'm getting to the point where I can say I like FastPass+ more than FastPass. I have not tried it yet, so can't comment with any certainty. But having more than 3 and park hopping just about does it. If they make one more change I will be sold.

They need to make it so I can book my 3 FastPass+'s in advance for evening hours and I can have one revolving that I can use any time of the day and always get one more once I use the revolving FastPass. If they made this change I would have nothing at all to complain about.

Indeed! This would be freaking awesome.

We can only wait and see how this is going to play out.

When we tried FP+ system for the first time they were still allowing the double dip so we didn't have a clear indication of how it would work. However we are Rope Droppers so the morning are never really an issue for getting rides. Once the crowds start coming in between 10:30 - 12:00 we started using paper FPs.

I planned my FP+ fast passes for the afternoons\evenings when we would park hop to another park.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
Really??? That's shocking to me. (Good news, but surprising.)

I've never understood how this system would even remotely generate the kind of revenue that would justify its cost without charging for FP+ entitlements. I mean, sure, they can sell decorated bands, sliders, etc., but how many of them can they sell, especially with the way they send out bands to guests? We got two pairs for our April trip (first pair lost in mail), a pair for being APs, and we'll get another pair in October. That's on top of the glossy mailers, thumb drive, etc. And I know I won't spend a cent more than I otherwise would have.

The financial benefit to Disney doesn't come from the selling of bands but rather nearly entirely from the data the bands generate at scale. (A slight bump might occur in resort guests, and from the ease of tapping to pay but these benefits are incidental to the main purpose) The data can be used for any number of purposes from more efficient scheduling, analysis of what is more popular and therefore what to market, how much the average guest spends and when and where to capitalize on it etc. Remember that the bands have more than just and RFID transmitter. They are capable of being tracked from a distance, are tied to individual guest demographics and spending habits, as well as intended plans vs. actual plans carried out. You can bet that Disney will be using all of this. Every company in America wishes it had the data about its customers that Disney is about to get about its guests. While it'll be difficult to calculate a specific number as to the amount revenue/savings generated from the system because the benefits are so widespread and qualitative there is a reason they're willing to spend $2 billion on it. And it's not that they think they'll sell that much in accessories.
 

John

Well-Known Member
This is great news......the only thing I will add ( at the risk of being labeled as D&Ger....as if I needed someone to tell me that) is that this is quickly looking like the old system, just the media is changed....I am not saying its a bad thing.....just sayin'. I think if they would have educated us more about the system from jump it would have saved a lot of grief. Atleast we can say the program is headed in the right direction.
 

rodserling27

Well-Known Member
This is definitely a step in the right direction. A handful of you suggested that WDW customer service was lying to me when they told me on the phone in January that changes were coming, hinting at more reservations a day and park hopping. . .glad to see that is not the case. I had faith...let's hope this trend of listening to us continues!

So...Hooray!! Can't wait to try it all out!!!

(On the downside...I keep asking myself if MM+/FP+ was this really worth the billions they spent on it? Probably not...worthwhile endeavor for certain...but definitely not worth billions of dollars.)
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
This is great news......the only thing I will add ( at the risk of being labeled as D&Ger....as if I needed someone to tell me that) is that this is quickly looking like the old system, just the media is changed....I am not saying its a bad thing.....just sayin'. I think if they would have educated us more about the system from jump it would have saved a lot of grief. Atleast we can say the program is headed in the right direction.
As I understand it, that was the idea from the beginning.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Not keeping secrets....more of a "don't announce to the world your strategic project plan". Ugh. I've been doing this, software development, for almost 30 years. I have never worked for a company, and I worked for 3 Fortune 500 firms and now the U.S. Army, and in none of them did we ever publicly disclose our IT project plans in detail. We would imply what the plans were, but they were 10000 ft. level ideas.

There is a world of difference between what you do for operations vs what you do for projects intended for sales or consumption. "IT" is not "Product Development"... IT is services and platforms.. not what you produce and sell. You don't roadmap your internal platforms to your customers unless that is what they are buying.. but you roadmap the products and services that rely upon those IT services and platforms. And even in IT, you are expected to roadmap your future not only for your own budgeting, but so that your consumers are ready for it as well.

When you work with large customers who deal with long term budgets and planning.. you don't say "Suprise!! we just sprung all new products on you and we won't tell you at all our intentions going forward for them!". Well some do.. and they are dispised for the very reasons Disney has been getting bad blood here. People can't plan their future movements and get far more misinformation than actual information.

No one is expecting Disney to roadmap their internal facing needs - but simple things like "Who will have access to the service" is not 'in the weeds' but strategic choices about the product Disney should be up front about.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Touring Plans released research and showed that it is not having much of an effect at all.

http://blog.touringplans.com/2014/02/19/fastpass-affecting-your-wait-in-line-disney-world/

Touring plans isn't posting detailed info like easy wdw did. Check out this link, I think he goes much more in depth on the effects with numbers to back up his info.
I read the article from the site that shall not be named on this site and it's taking a few liberties in its wording.
For example, when you get the EPCOT numbers, they state how "biggest jumps" are at attractions such as Journey into the Imagination. The jump is from 5 to 10 minutes in median wait and a whopping 10 to 20 in Peak waits from 2013 to 2014. These are practically insignificant times.
Consequently, long wait attractions, historically, have had little change, Soarin, 60 over 60 in median and 80 over 70 (an improvement) in peak.
Similar for Test Track, 70 over 80 (median and in the wrong direction) but 90 over 80 in Peak.
Overall, not the greatest of differentials and considering they're looking at a modest 65 day range, I can't say that one can legitimately claim FP+ is having a terribly adverse impact on historical standby times at this time.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Touring plans isn't posting detailed info like easy wdw did. Check out this link, I think he goes much more in depth on the effects with numbers to back up his info.

The problem is easy's data is purely based on Disney's posted wait times. Looks like he is just scraping Disney's online system to collect his sampling. Touringplans has the value of posted vs observed as well. Obviously the volume of data is different, but we all know what people think of Disney's posted wait times.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
I have to think that they had an idea that they would be doing this for quite some time.
They had to at the very least design the system to make this option configurable and easy to roll out from a software development standpoint. I highly doubt that they would have the time to roll out new code (assuming a fairly standard release schedule) based on "guest feedback" in the time they've had with some real guest data, so they built this flexibility into the system from the start, which only makes sense. I'm guessing the "guest feedback" only played into the decision on how early in it's implementation that they decided to roll the change out. Test it with a standard 3 for a while, get some real insight into how it functions, then put out the change.


I agree, but I think a big part of this was probably getting the FP+ system attached to the actual park ticket and not to the hotel reservation. It has become obvious that they started to roll out this system with no clue how to practically attach park tickets to FP+ reservations, through at least Feb the FP+ reservations were via the hotel reservation! no park ticket required. It looks like they have finally solved the problem with the AP solution rolling out. I would expect day passes to start to get easier to manage via the application soon.
 

kap91

Well-Known Member
On the downside...I keep asking myself if MM+/FP+ was this really worth the billions they spent on it? Probably not...worthwhile endeavor for certain...but definitely not worth billions of dollars.)

Ok, let me try to explain this again. I feel like a lot of people don't get the concept of market research / big data. So for an illustration:

Target, Sears, and who knows how many retailers have customer loyalty cards right? Believe it or not, they don't give you these cards so you can save $5 a month. They're tied to a database that keeps track of everything you buy, when you did it, how often you buy each item, etc. Now the stores aren't prudes that want to know specifically when you, John Doe, buy toilet paper. They don't care. But, when extrapolated, they can see the habits of millions of people at large, and when they tend to buy toilet paper. And THIS is where the financial benefit come in. With this relatively small amount of information they can surmise all sorts of buying habits and preferences which work both to benefit you the consumer and the company. They know when and what brand of toilet paper you buy, and thus can offer you a coupon for it right when you need it: which gets you into their store over someone else's. The systems are enormously sophisticated. Target can determine with like 95% accuracy when a women is pregnant, often before she knows it. And naturally offer baby products for a discount, and get you into their store over others. And even more so - offer products the person might not even know they want. For instance they might observe that people buying lots of baby supplies also buy a lot of pickles and they can use that to their advantage. The same data will let them know which products are successful, which aren't, and exactly how successful they are - which can determine the best price to sell them at. The benefits go on an on and on. And all this from relatively little data - just your purchase history, and maybe a few demographic marks.

Contrast this to MM+ which not only can do everything above, but actually know what a person plans to do vs. what they actually do, where they go in the park on a minute by minute basis, how long they're there, what they do, what they buy at what time, after doing what, etc. etc. etc. The value of this information IS $billions. Again, not so much from knowing what you individually are doing - there's some benefit there, but that is largely not important. It's the value of the information in aggregate. And I can't stress enough the benefit flows both ways here. The more Disney knows about its guests habits the more it can try to influence them and by doing so create more even distribution of crowds as well as provide the kind of experiences guests actually want rather than say they want. On Disney's side it enables much more efficient scheduling, marketing, operations, price -structuring, and more.

This is why I maintain that MM+ is likely to remain largely free, as well as why Disney is going to continue its efforts to make it the most pleasant, attractive, glossy experience possible. Because they want EVERYONE to use it and they want them to LIKE using it. The system is less valuable if only fans, commandos, or resort guests are using it. Sure there is probably money to be made in offering perks for a price, but only if those perks don't detract from as many people as possible using the system.

I hope that does at least an ok job of explaining the logic behind it all. Management at Disney is not a bunch of inept fools spending billions of dollars on slightly more convenient turnstiles. They are incredibly shrewd businessmen.
 

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
I like that you can have "unlimited" FP now basically, but I don't really like that you have to use the first 3 to "unlock" the limited feature, if that makes sense.

Before, I would use the 3 FP and spread them out throughout the day, start on one side of the park and work our way around to the other (we r not park hop people). Now it seems kid d confusing?

I guess try to use all 3 on one half of the park, and then use the unlimited for more?

It should be choose 1 before you leave and once it's used you get more, so on and so forth...
 

Eric S.

New Member
Two things: 1. I hope that there will be functionality within the MyMagic+ app to get additional fastpasses to cut down on the lines at the kiosks. 2. If one of your original 3 FP+ reservations is for a park closing event, like a parade or fireworks, will that prevent you from getting any additional FP's for the entire day? I really hope not.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
This is great news......the only thing I will add ( at the risk of being labeled as D&Ger....as if I needed someone to tell me that) is that this is quickly looking like the old system, just the media is changed....I am not saying its a bad thing.....just sayin'. I think if they would have educated us more about the system from jump it would have saved a lot of grief. Atleast we can say the program is headed in the right direction.

Well, the major difference is the ability to pre-plan/reserve rides which is kinda the linchpin of the value to Disney. They want people to schedule rides in advance to make some sort of a committement to being in a Disney park, rather thand deciding the day of to do so and perhaps not going to a park (going off site or relaxing at their hotel pool, etc) and not spending money at WDW.

Personally, I'm a fan of the pre-planning (I know many are not) so if they add that feature to beign able to get more than 3 a day, I'm real happy -- especially if the additional FP+ are not tiered and allow park hopping.
 

foxfamily238

Active Member
This is interesting. It also seems that this means a stop at a kiosk in between each new FP+ Starting with the 4th one. Hopefully they will eventually let you do this from the App as others have mentioned. Also it will be interesting to see how many FP+ will be available for the day-of/extra FP+. Especially now that pretty much anyone will be able to book initial FP+ 30-60 days ahead.

This also brings up a couple of questions that others have mentioned, such as:

Will they keep the tiers, or will you be able to use the extra FP+ to do another ride in the top tier, if available?

Will you be able to pick a ride you already did earlier in the day?

It is encouraging that they are making changes whether pre-planned, from getting feedback, or a mixture of both. :) Hopefully more information will follow soon!
 

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