Disney to increase the number of FastPass+ entitlements per day and include park hopping

[Next Big Thing]

I would have liked that as well, but you have to admit that they would have been crucified by someone no matter what they did. Sometimes saying nothing is the lesser of 2 evils.

The entire project may have been tried to be shut down by wall street if they put something like that out there.

 

[Next Big Thing]

The real question I have for FP is this:

Say you pre book a FP+ for Buzz. You finish your 3 advance FP+ and move onto the 4th and beyond. Is it possible to select Buzz or anything that you have already selected again? I know that the way the system has been, once you select a ride, you can't select it a second time so that's why I ask.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Give them nothing, and then give them a little more and they will never forget you.

-- Sally Rand

 

[fosse76]

I don't know. Certainly Disney wants to make money, but they have a little bit more class than to nickel-and-dime you. It isn't the state fair where you pay per ride. You pay your up-front admission and then you can just have fun without worrying about money. I don't see them making it so you can't have a good time without paying for extras.

You're kidding, right? This post was meant to be facetious, correct?

 

[fosse76]

I completely understood your post, but I still don't agree.

You've missed the point. It's not whether or not the attraction is valuable to a guest as a FP attraction, it's that the attractions listed don't need FP because the waits were not long enough that it was needed. Why would Mickey's Philharmagic or Its Tough to Be a Bug or Monster's Inc. Laugh Floor or MuppetVision 3D need a FP when the only wait is the film in progress and you have to wait for the next show. It's an unecessary addition. Pirates and Haunted Mansion arguably did have waits that reached 30 minutes or 45 minutes on extremely busy days. But with FP+, even on slow days, when it previously would have been 10 minutes, the waits are now 30 to 45 minutes. Because guests, not realising those attractions would not have had any significant wait, prioritized those attractions, thereby artificially increasing the demand. And now, it forces everyone to have to make these kinds of choices.

 

[cw1982]

You've missed the point. It's not whether or not the attraction is valuable to a guest as a FP attraction, it's that the attractions listed don't need FP because the waits were not long enough that it was needed. Why would Mickey's Philharmagic or Its Tough to Be a Bug or Monster's Inc. Laugh Floor or MuppetVision 3D need a FP when the only wait is the film in progress and you have to wait for the next show. It's an unecessary addition. Pirates and Haunted Mansion arguably did have waits that reached 30 minutes or 45 minutes on extremely busy days. But with FP+, even on slow days, when it previously would have been 10 minutes, the waits are now 30 to 45 minutes. Because guests, not realising those attractions would not have had any significant wait, prioritized those attractions, thereby artificially increasing the demand. And now, it forces everyone to have to make these kinds of choices.

No, I fully understood that. MY point, though, is that, on some level, it IS whether or not the FP+ is valuable to a guest; guests are they ones shelling out money to get into the parks, after all. It wouldn't surprise me at all if another reason that Disney is allowing guests to use FP+ for those items you named is to see whether or not guests will use them that way. From everything I've read (again, not sure how accurate the data is at this point since the busy season hasn't really rolled out yet), most attractions have seen little change in standby times, and some have even gone down. Having said that, I would imagine that, as the system gets tweaked further and further, some of the options that are less used for FP+ may get taken off of the list to streamline things, but it would make sense to use the opportunity to see how FP+ options impact all attractions, not just the obvious ones.

 

[devoy1701]

thank goodness!

 

[LAKid53]

Heck I used one of my FP+s for Turtle Time w/Crush, one for the new Belle experience at FL, 2 for M&Gs and I do not have any kids younger than 11, and he is a boy! People book differently, we are not ride commandos, I like a much more relaxed visit. I am not the norm, but is there even a norm on how to "do" WDW? I think we are all a little different. I think FP+ give us options, even the option not to use it if we don't want. It might not be perfect but how can you design a system to service 1000s and 1000s of different families each day and make it perfect for everyone? Or even close of that matter. I think you design it, communicate it and let people work out how to best use it to fit their style of visit.

I agree - since we've been to WDW so many times in the past 3 years, we want a more relaxed visit and FP+ gives us the option to plan our day at each park. We are on vacation, so I don't want to have to run to the ticket machine at Space Mountain shortly after rope drop so I can get a fastpass with a reasonable return time. Now we can sleep in, get to the parks later in the AM, knowing that we will be able to ride those rides we want without standing in a 80 minute standby line or getting a fastpass with a return time close to park closing. And if we decide to really be lazy, make selections for the evening and don't have to wonder "will this ride be open for EMH this time" if all the FP were gone for the day. Example, thanks to a nice CM at DHS, we were finally able ride TSM, because all the legacy FP were usually gone by 10:30 in the morning. Now that we can book a FP+ for this ride, no problem. Visit the parks we want, ride the rides we want when we want, go back to the resort, hang out at the pool (or in my case, take a nap) and go eat dinner. I can't think of a better vacation at WDW. And hopefully the bugs (which I've not experienced) will be worked out. Thank you Disney.

And once SDMT opens and FP+ is activated, we will all see the benefit because you will be able to get on the ride without having to be at MK at the crack of dawn.

I'm hoping that the additional FP+ selections and park hopping ability will be available when we leave in two weeks.

 

[Rogue21]

Well, duh, no sane WOMAN would fly on a zip line that high up at night....

I consider myself as near to sanity as possible and I would LOVE the adrenaline rush of a zip line that high and at night. In fact, I have done both night and day zip line courses in regular treetops. I've also bungee jumped out of a balloon. And here's the one real insane part of all that -- men did it too! One persons insane is another's thrill.

Back to the topic of FP+ . . .

 

[BigTxEars]

I agree - since we've been to WDW so many times in the past 3 years, we want a more relaxed visit and FP+ gives us the option to plan our day at each park. We are on vacation, so I don't want to have to run to the ticket machine at Space Mountain shortly after rope drop so I can get a fastpass with a reasonable return time. Now we can sleep in, get to the parks later in the AM, knowing that we will be able to ride those rides we want without standing in a 80 minute standby line or getting a fastpass with a return time close to park closing. And if we decide to really be lazy, make selections for the evening and don't have to wonder "will this ride be open for EMH this time" if all the FP were gone for the day. Example, thanks to a nice CM at DHS, we were finally able ride TSM, because all the legacy FP were usually gone by 10:30 in the morning. Now that we can book a FP+ for this ride, no problem. Visit the parks we want, ride the rides we want when we want, go back to the resort, hang out at the pool (or in my case, take a nap) and go eat dinner. I can't think of a better vacation at WDW. And hopefully the bugs (which I've not experienced) will be worked out. Thank you Disney.

And once SDMT opens and FP+ is activated, we will all see the benefit because you will be able to get on the ride without having to be at MK at the crack of dawn.

I'm hoping that the additional FP+ selections and park hopping ability will be available when we leave in two weeks.

Agreed! It's very nice knowing none of my FP+s this trip will interfere with my ADRs. That was something in the past with legacy FP that I could not have known until the day of. Not a deal killer but nicer this way IMO.

 

[LucyK]

No word yet on how this will work with tiers and re-rides?

 

[BigTxEars]

No word yet on how this will work with tiers and re-rides?

None that I have heard, I would imagine a somewhat quite test run, refinements and then a "start" date.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You don't know what the majority of first time guest want, or repeat guest like me for that matter. You know what you want and somehow think everyone else wants that as well. I don't care to go back and forth with you on what I want or what people neither of us know a thing about want. That is pointless.

Unless you have the data that WDW has of FP+ you don't know what their guest are doing or not doing with FP+ it's all conjecture on your part and nothing else. It may be educated conjecture but conjecture none the less.

This is well beyond repackaging, I can tell you 55 days from now where I will be within the hour for the major rides at WDW for 7 days, and I can fit those in with my ADRs and other plans. Legacy FP would have me still wondering if I could outrun that old guy at rope drop and even get TSM FPs much less for what time. Now in fact I would throw an elbow on old guy and take him down if I had to, but you know what I am saying


If this drives folks to Uni then that is fine as well. Their system is more unbalanced than FP+, stay onsite there and skip everybody else in line as often as you want. That makes a few non resort guest a little unhappy if I remember correctly.

Disney offers much more to do than Uni already, I have done weeks at both and that is my opinion at least. And I wish folks would stop acting like WDW has not and will not be building anything new. Both FL and Avatar are both large building additions at WDW.

Either way it here to stay so those who just detest don't have to use it. It's optional and there if you want or not.

You're not thinking about this from a mathematical standpoint. You can make the argument that a first time guest wants instant access to lower demand attractions. That's all well and good and I'm sure that in many cases it is true. However, with the attractions on the list I provided earlier in this thread there is not a significant time savings to merit a Fastpass+ reservation. It's not a matter of meeting a guest's needs, it's a matter of deceiving that guest into thinking this is an actual benefit.

I get the benefits of planning ahead. I definitely think 2 months is beyond ridiculous, but I see the value in having the marquee attraction reserved in advance. So they should do just that. That's where the value is. They've even identified that with the tiers. The real valuable Fastpass+ reservations are on those Tier 1 attractions in DHS and Epcot. We all know the attractions that we used to run to to get that Fastpass. What I have suggested is to keep the spirit of Fastpass+ in place with 1 advanced booking. Doing so would eliminate the ridiculous premise that some of these other attractions ever get waits above 15 minutes if they don't have Fastpass+ inflating their wait times.

Then, day of your advanced booking and an additional booking can be used similarly to the way the old system worked (you can get a new Fastpass when you use one). The alternative here with the current plan for a revolving Fastpass (after the first 3 are used) is an improvement but it's not the best solution.

I can make an argument that this is something other than deception, but I'm not going to argue against my own argument. If someone else wants to present a legitimate reason for them to do this besides, "you don't know what the first time guest wants" I'd be interested to hear it.

I don't see how you can say what effect FP+ has had yet; it hasn't been in place that long and is not even fully implemented. There can't be enough data to prove that what you're asserting here is absolute gospel... the data just simply doesn't exist yet. There are preliminary numbers floating around, but I question how well those numbers will hold up when the summer months hit.

I still disagree with your statement about whether or not certain attractions "need" FP+... as others have said, IMO it's not always about the need being there, but you can't say with any amount of certainty what every guest wants to gain out of their FP+ choices. DH and I are 31 and have no interest in using our choices for M&G's or shows, so we are choosing to use them on the big name rides. If we had a young child with us, those choices would probably look quite different, and our priority would be making sure that our kid got to meet favorite characters, etc. So, while I may not need a FP+ for some of those, I would think some parents would find comfort in knowing that they have those options when needed... sometimes shaving ten minutes off of a wait time is a big deal when you're dealing with little ones.

My feeling: keep the advanced selections offering at 3. Keep the tiers even, if they must. But once a guest has used the first FP+ they should be able to add another one so that they never have more than three booked per day at a time. Let them make their selections however they want as long as they stay within the tiers, if the tiers are really that crucial to the success of the program (ie, once I have used my FP+ for Soarin', I would be able to then book one for Test Track, since I would not currently have one reserved for that tier). That would still keep the flexibility of having three selections up front but would open the possibility for enjoying more of the tier one attractions without making it so that only people who are staying onsite have access to those in time to snag them.

While I addressed many of your points in the content above, I'll rephrase to specifically address some of your points here. There is 15 years of data about how the parks operated with Fastpass, and I was certainly an avid user of it. I long suggested a set up very similar to what I suggested above and think scheduling things same day is a good alternative to the previous norm of no true end time. All of these components of Fastpass+ are positive. But the advanced booking of 3 different attractions is unnecessary when in many cases demand is really only needed for 1 or 2 at the most. To reiterate the point made above, the "need" for Fastpass at many attractions has been verified by @lentesta. While wait times haven't increased significantly, what is difficult to argue is the need for Fastpass+ at a show. In most cases, you are going to lose time using Fastpass+ for a show. You will show up between 5 and 20 minutes early as it says on the ticket when you could see the show in the standby line if you show up 4 minutes before the show begins. In the other rides listed, the savings is typically less than 15 minutes. That certainly has value to some, but the masses would be better served if that lower demand attraction was standby only.

As for your suggestion about making another FP+ after using the first. That would be preferred to me as well, and it was one of the options on the survey that went around. I agree that it is a better alternative to the one that Tom Staggs intimated in his blog post.

As for the tiers, they further emphasize my point that the MK is really the only park that can truly accommodate this. The tiers are necessary because the attraction lineups at DHS and Epcot are top heavy. The issue isn't as big a deal at the Animal Kingdom because the higher demand attractions have such a high capacity, but beyond the top 4 attractions Fastpass isn't needed elsewhere in that park either.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Heck I used one of my FP+s for Turtle Time w/Crush, one for the new Belle experience at FL, 2 for M&Gs and I do not have any kids younger than 11, and he is a boy! People book differently, we are not ride commandos, I like a much more relaxed visit. I am not the norm, but is there even a norm on how to "do" WDW? I think we are all a little different. I think FP+ give us options, even the option not to use it if we don't want. It might not be perfect but how can you design a system to service 1000s and 1000s of different families each day and make it perfect for everyone? Or even close of that matter. I think you design it, communicate it and let people work out how to best use it to fit their style of visit.

I came up with a better system...
Also, you don't need a FP+ for Turtle Talk with Crush. 95% of the time you're going to enter the same time as the guests waiting standby.

 

[jlsHouston]

To confirm this..Purple MBs are actually requested by guests more than most other features regarding MM+.

Yes and pink is the number one most popular and prevalent color of all the bands worn per the security at BWI.

 

[stevehousse]

It's not about deceiving the guest into lesser attractions, it's about getting to do what u and your family want to do, wether there is a standby wait or not! If my kids favorite ride is small world, I would definately make sure I had a FP for it wether it deserves it or not. That's the thinking behind this new system in terms of guests ensuring they get to do what they want.

 

[cw1982]

You're not thinking about this from a mathematical standpoint. You can make the argument that a first time guest wants instant access to lower demand attractions. That's all well and good and I'm sure that in many cases it is true. However, with the attractions on the list I provided earlier in this thread there is not a significant time savings to merit a Fastpass+ reservation. It's not a matter of meeting a guest's needs, it's a matter of deceiving that guest into thinking this is an actual benefit.

I get the benefits of planning ahead. I definitely think 2 months is beyond ridiculous, but I see the value in having the marquee attraction reserved in advance. So they should do just that. That's where the value is. They've even identified that with the tiers. The real valuable Fastpass+ reservations are on those Tier 1 attractions in DHS and Epcot. We all know the attractions that we used to run to to get that Fastpass. What I have suggested is to keep the spirit of Fastpass+ in place with 1 advanced booking. Doing so would eliminate the ridiculous premise that some of these other attractions ever get waits above 15 minutes if they don't have Fastpass+ inflating their wait times.

Then, day of your advanced booking and an additional booking can be used similarly to the way the old system worked (you can get a new Fastpass when you use one). The alternative here with the current plan for a revolving Fastpass (after the first 3 are used) is an improvement but it's not the best solution.

I can make an argument that this is something other than deception, but I'm not going to argue against my own argument. If someone else wants to present a legitimate reason for them to do this besides, "you don't know what the first time guest wants" I'd be interested to hear it.



While I addressed many of your points in the content above, I'll rephrase to specifically address some of your points here. There is 15 years of data about how the parks operated with Fastpass, and I was certainly an avid user of it. I long suggested a set up very similar to what I suggested above and think scheduling things same day is a good alternative to the previous norm of no true end time. All of these components of Fastpass+ are positive. But the advanced booking of 3 different attractions is unnecessary when in many cases demand is really only needed for 1 or 2 at the most. To reiterate the point made above, the "need" for Fastpass at many attractions has been verified by @lentesta. While wait times haven't increased significantly, what is difficult to argue is the need for Fastpass+ at a show. In most cases, you are going to lose time using Fastpass+ for a show. You will show up between 5 and 20 minutes early as it says on the ticket when you could see the show in the standby line if you show up 4 minutes before the show begins. In the other rides listed, the savings is typically less than 15 minutes. That certainly has value to some, but the masses would be better served if that lower demand attraction was standby only.

As for your suggestion about making another FP+ after using the first. That would be preferred to me as well, and it was one of the options on the survey that went around. I agree that it is a better alternative to the one that Tom Staggs intimated in his blog post.

As for the tiers, they further emphasize my point that the MK is really the only park that can truly accommodate this. The tiers are necessary because the attraction lineups at DHS and Epcot are top heavy. The issue isn't as big a deal at the Animal Kingdom because the higher demand attractions have such a high capacity, but beyond the top 4 attractions Fastpass isn't needed elsewhere in that park either.

Again, I fully understand your points, but I still don't fully agree. Perhaps if Disney had started with the idea of booking one FP+ in advance and then being able to do more that day, people would respond about the same way that they are responding to the current setup; however, now that they have been told that they will have three choices per day in advance, taking that down to one in advance and one the day of would certainly cause unnecessary added stress for those who then think that their options had just decreased. People are already upset about only being able to book three in advance; can you imagine how much worse it would be if we took that down to one?

I do agree 100% that encouraging guests to book FP+ 2 months in advance is asinine, but no amount of us discussing that is going to change Disney's method on that (or for any of this, for that matter... we're both somewhat wasting our breath here, aren't we? Even if we find an agreement between us, Disney is not very likely to change anything based on this thread LOL).

I hate the tiers too; that we fully agree on IMO. I think they're dumb, and I think that Disney may find that they're pointless because the people who generally want FP+ for a lot of the tier 2 stuff are often less likely to use the tier 1 FP+ for some of the rides that typically have longer lines anyway; they're the people who are more likely to use FP+ for things like preferred viewing areas at parades or fireworks and character M&G's. But if Disney is determined to have tiers, no amount of limiting the number of FP+ will change the tier structure, unless we're talking about them saying "pick one from this list and one from that list" instead of one from tier one and two from tier two. I really think that it's entirely possible that, if they did away with the tiers, the whole issue may solve itself, since Epcot and HS tend to not be as crowded as MK anyway (from what I've been reading).

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's not about deceiving the guest into lesser attractions, it's about getting to do what u and your family want to do, wether there is a standby wait or not! If my kids favorite ride is small world, I would definately make sure I had a FP for it wether it deserves it or not. That's the thinking behind this new system in terms of guests ensuring they get to do what they want.

Am I missing the point of Fastpass+ now? Is it now to just say what your favorite attraction is and not to save time?

 

[cw1982]

Am I missing the point of Fastpass+ now? Is it now to just say what your favorite attraction is and not to save time?

No, the intended purpose (for most guests) is arguably, indeed, to save time. However, for first timers with little kids, some of the things that they may not normally need a FP+ for just for the time saving component may be things that they want to be sure they DON'T need it to save time for; in that case, it would become a sort of safety net for them. I know people who would probably use their FP+ options that way if they were going to Disney because a lot of the items that didn't make your list are things that wouldn't interest them for one reason or another. Doesn't make it wrong for them to use them that way; it just means they have different priorities and just want that cushion.

 

[BigTxEars]

I came up with a better system...
Also, you don't need a FP+ for Turtle Talk with Crush. 95% of the time you're going to enter the same time as the guests waiting standby.

Your.....ego....out of .........control......need.....to......reign.....it....in....before......someone....gets......hurt.....

Better yet can I send you my sign on and password and you can set up all my FP+ and ADRs? I think you know me better than I know me and my family.