Disney Springs Plans: What do they mean?

[articos]

It is very 90s in look. If you stayed at the Contemporary or just visited after its 1991 (I believe) makeover, the one that added the CC out front, the rooms were very much done in purples, reds and blacks. The signs always reminded me of that. ... And while John Hench was a genius and contributed more to what we see as a Disney park than anyone else ever (Walt included), he had missteps and I think those signs were one.
Of course, if he were alive maybe he would have had them changed by now himself.

Interesting thought. Certainly possible. To me, the All Stars/Pop are a value when I want to stay on property and I can stay there for $30-60 a night. Anything more is totally ridiculous ... and with some of the deals I have found on Priceline.com I have a hard time even paying the upper range of that. Just not worth it.

WDW signage is horribly 90s...when the new sign package came out, I hated it. Grown accustomed to it now, but it really still screams early 90s design. I think Hench's opinion would depend on how crotchety he was feeling that day. SP did do the wayfaring package under John and a few others' direction. Expecting a new wayfaring design package in the new DD, but I haven't heard anything about a more property-wide change.

The values haven't been "value" in a while, and I believe the thinking behind the changes boils down to that - you can't continue to market a resort with pricing that approaches $200 a night during certain times of year as a "value" resort. Get rid of the "value" and "moderate" terminology and voila, problem solved.They can still advertise "rates as low as..." and still keep per night rates climbing. And now that they have the Waldorf and the 4Seas coming online, they have a similar perception problem on the high end, too - how do you call a resort deluxe, charging $700 a night when you have 2 known brands in the 5 star world who are charging a fraction of that? You can't, so you start charging based on the "experience" as opposed to the supposed service level.

Yeah, well....

See, some people define parking as the availability of a parking spot SOMEWHERE around the DTD area. As I've said before, my family and I are not adverse to walking - I regularly run 3+ miles two or three times a week, and my wife runs and rollerblades regularly; we are all pretty well physically fit. There are times, however, when we really don't want to park all the way over by Cirque to go the the Lego store and The Earl of Sandwich on our way home (when we are there for long weekends, that is our last stop to pick up some Lego and sandwiches for the trip home) - that trip would be quite difficult with food and a large Lego box!

A parking structure to allow the majority of customers to park closer would be a very welcomed addition.

On a seperate (but related) note, the city of Jacksonville recently announced a partnership they are building with a company that deals with parking. There will be an application (or website, can't remember the details) that will show people trying to find parking in the downtown area just where open parking spots are just by checking their phone. THAT would be a useful addition to a Disney app!

Like you're saying, there are multiple problems with DD parking, and depending on how busy it is factors in to which problems actually affect you. Regarding Jax's partnership - I hope the city puts some price controls in there for you. In California, we've been experimenting with various apps that assist with parking - the apps and websites are great, and definitely help in making life easier. But any time So Cal cities have outsourced our parking to private contractors, the pricing has skyrocketed, both on meters and garages. Some meters in LA now go up to $6 per hour, enforced til 2am even. Extremes, but still...buyer beware. If it's just the apps, and the city controls the parking, then it's all good for you.

Hasn't been officially decided yet.

I'm expecting fee based parking, with a certain amount of time free, plus validation periods, which will effectively keep it free/cheap for most. I'm more concerned whether they'll make it automated parking, and try to save on staffing.

 

[DougK]

I would agree and disagree with that statement. Overpriced, certainly. But many signature locales like California Grill, Narcoosee's, Jiko, and Artist Point have always provided wonderful dining experiences.

Victoria and Albert's takes fine dining to a whole different level and has earned everyone of those five diamonds it has. But it's not a place you go for a normal dinner unless you're a foodie.

Maybe I overreacted in saying all "Signatures" besides Victoria and Albert's are over-rated. But they are over-priced. For example the potato wrapped red snapper at Flying Fish is excellent but not worth $36 (or whatever it costs this week I sure it will go up soon enough).

 

[awoogala]

http://www.slashfilm.com/mickey-mou...alled-the-stooge-has-been-proposed-to-disney/

Thanks! interesting... not sure how I feel about it, but it is a step in the right direction!

 

[COProgressFan]

Maybe I overreacted in saying all "Signatures" besides Victoria and Albert's are over-rated. But they are over-priced. For example the potato wrapped red snapper at Flying Fish is excellent but not worth $36 (or whatever it costs this week I sure it will go up soon enough).

Still pleasant experiences, but simplified menus and drastic price increases in the past 5 years or so thanks to the Magic of the Disney Dining Plan!

 

[COProgressFan]

The values haven't been "value" in a while, and I believe the thinking behind the changes boils down to that - you can't continue to market a resort with pricing that approaches $200 a night during certain times of year as a "value" resort. Get rid of the "value" and "moderate" terminology and voila, problem solved.They can still advertise "rates as low as..." and still keep per night rates climbing. And now that they have the Waldorf and the 4Seas coming online, they have a similar perception problem on the high end, too - how do you call a resort deluxe, charging $700 a night when you have 2 known brands in the 5 star world who are charging a fraction of that? You can't, so you start charging based on the "experience" as opposed to the supposed service level.

I hadn't thought of it that way but you are completely correct. How can you promote "deluxe" resorts at $400+ a night when you can stay at the almost on property Waldorf, the forthcoming Bay Lake Four Seasons, or the nearby Ritz at prices than can often be half the price? Or even places like the JW Marriott or Gaylord Palms, which generally offer a product that is at the very least comparable to, or better than a Disney deluxe? I guess Disney's possible answer to that problem is focus on the "Experience" instead as you mentioned. Better yet, don't itemize the cost of the room separately from parks, food, etc. Just sell a "magical week" package for $5k and see if folks will buy it. Savvy consumers be damned.

And the "values"... I have stayed at nearly on property 2 bedroom villas for the low $100s per night recently, which are far superior in every way to what you'd get for that price (if you can even get that price) at a value resort.

 

[rael ramone]

And the "values"... I have stayed at nearly on property 2 bedroom villas for the low $100s per night recently, which are far superior in every way to what you'd get for that price (if you can even get that price) at a value resort.

But you don't get the MAGIC of Drunken Pop Warner Dads at an off property villa.

 

[scpergj]

Some advice: try Priceline.com's 'Name Your Own Price' bidding service.

I have stayed at Gaylord Palms, Rosen Shingle Creek, Dolphin, DD Hilton, Buena Vista Palace for starters all in that $67 range (some less).
It's very easy.

Check out BetterBidding.com and BiddingForTravel.com for specifics.

Disney even toyed with getting rid of excess inventory with PL.com in 2006, throwing out rooms at ASMu and during the summer for $35 a night.

Which of those would you rate the best?

I'm afraid that Disney has priced themselves out of the range that I am willing to pay for the 'experience'.

 

[DougK]

Still pleasant experiences, but simplified menus and drastic price increases in the past 5 years or so thanks to the Magic of the Disney Dining Plan!

I agree.

 

[MattM]

Which of those would you rate the best?

I'm afraid that Disney has priced themselves out of the range that I am willing to pay for the 'experience'.

Gaylord or Shingle Creek (in terms of the hotel itself, not taking into account location, etc), of the one's specifically mentioned by 74.

 

[rael ramone]

I would agree and disagree with that statement. Overpriced, certainly. But many signature locales like California Grill, Narcoosee's, Jiko, and Artist Point have always provided wonderful dining experiences.

Victoria and Albert's takes fine dining to a whole different level and has earned everyone of those five diamonds it has. But it's not a place you go for a normal dinner unless you're a foodie.

The resort 'sigs' have either served very good to great food, or in the few instances that I didn't like it, it wasn't because of a lack of quality, it just wasn't to my taste (the too spicy for my taste Swahili curry shrimp at Jiko I had years ago come to my mind).

Now, Chef's De France, on the other hand, is now a feed station that serves hospital food.

If the mouse decides to run any of the sit-downs in the expanded lifestyle center, which of these two models are they more likely to follow?

 

[alphac2005]

The inflated prices from the parks to the hotels are directly associated with the quality that was perceived at Walt Disney World for many decades. Nowhere else can you have a hole in the wall type of hotel room and charge 4x the price of a luxury room down the road. So, the question is, now that such quality doesn't exist anymore, at what point is the company unable to price based on their previous reputation? (And yes, I know that the idea of prices going down are a foreign body to this company and not happening.)That was too wordy. We know that more and more hotels rooms go unfilled, many of us know of plenty of anecdotal evidence from friends, family, etc., so it's not like the whole question is decades beyond.

One of my boys (10) said that "Universal just does it better." I told him that he had no idea what Disney World used to be like and that he would have loved it if it was like its former self. The kids will see what WDW used to look like when we go to SoCal next year.

 

[alphac2005]

Some advice: try Priceline.com's 'Name Your Own Price' bidding service.

I have stayed at Gaylord Palms, Rosen Shingle Creek, Dolphin, DD Hilton, Buena Vista Palace for starters all in that $67 range (some less).
It's very easy.

Check out BetterBidding.com and BiddingForTravel.com for specifics.

Disney even toyed with getting rid of excess inventory with PL.com in 2006, throwing out rooms at ASMu and during the summer for $35 a night.

If you're looking to book the day before or day of, Hotel Tonight, which is app based, has some darn good deals as well.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Interesting post because it brings up two points that don't really have much to do with the above, but popped into my head when reading it:

1.) The entire purple, red and white signs were largely the work of John Hench and while some folks loved them, I always found them tacky. They made their debut in 1989 to go with the resort expansion and major additions like Disney-MGM, EPCOT resort area, Typhoon Lagoon, Pleasure Island, final phases of CBR and start of OKW construction.

Personally, I preferred the national park like white on brown signs that WDW had from 1971-1989. Simple. Basic. Classy.

2.) I haven't put this out yet, so take it as VERY informed rumour, but rumour nonetheless. That is that Disney is planning on reclassifying resorts based on location and not value, moderate, deluxe, villa etc. ... So, for instance GF, Poly, Contemp, WL would be MK resorts. CBR, AoA and POP would be WWoS resorts. All Stars and Coronado would be Blizzard Beach/McD's resorts (yes, that IS how they are listed).

No idea what level of thinking this is at. But my gut says that yet again it's a way to raise prices across the board. There are fools out there who already pay $100-150 a night for a basic Disney motel room, I'm sure the thinking may be that Disney can squeeze more revenue out of the resorts by losing terms like 'value' and 'moderate'.

I actually thought that the new bus design could lead to new signage around property.

 

[John]

As for Pop, it's quite nice and convenient enough when you can get a CM rate of say $40-50 a night when you really want to be on property. But I truly feel anyone paying $140 a night to stay there has a profound lack of understanding the value of money and any savvy when it comes to travel.

Convenient .....yes...nice...NO! Its appalling. It was once my favorite value, no longer. The maintence of the place was just bad....and yes I do get a CM rate. You would have to pay me to stay there now. I will give credit where credit is due. My room was fine. But the common areas were just abysmal. Chunks out of the elevator laminate walls....shrubs unkept. Dirty hallways....floors that hadnt been mopped for days. I seen spills that were left for days on end. Rusty metal chairs outside the food court.

There is another thing that I thought was a nice surprise. The life guards on duty at the pool were excellent. I sat and watched them for sometime and IMO they were highly trained and did thier job extremely well. Very attentive to what they were doing. They quickly got to know every child in the pool and kept track of them. I even saw them counting kids at one point....even after they had just counted them niutes prior. Job well done.

 

[HMF]

Not much. It would be put on the departed Rich Ross.

Has Alan Horn even green-lit anything yet?

 

[HMF]

WDW signage is horribly 90s...when the new sign package came out, I hated it. Grown accustomed to it now, but it really still screams early 90s design. I think Hench's opinion would depend on how crotchety he was feeling that day. SP did do the wayfaring package under John and a few others' direction. Expecting a new wayfaring design package in the new DD, but I haven't heard anything about a more property-wide change.
.

I was really expecting a dramatic signage and aesthetic overhaul throughout the Resort when the "new" WDW logo first showed up but since that logo turned out to be a merchandise exclusive thing, It appears the 90s aesthetic is staying. I personally feel that WDW could really use a massive re-branding to move it away from the homogonized mess it has become.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

At least one site (The Daily City) credited WDWMAGIC (at least @Lee and @raven) for releasing info on this subject/topic. http://www.thedailycity.com/2013/03...log+(TheDailyCity.com:+Orlando+City+++Culture. So how many phases are there with this project again?

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I actually thought that the new bus design could lead to new signage around property.

I don't think management thinks of that whole thing as a system that should flow together anymore. I just don't see them caring what the street signs look like or whether they match the buses.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Convenient .....yes...nice...NO! Its appalling. It was once my favorite value, no longer. The maintence of the place was just bad....and yes I do get a CM rate. You would have to pay me to stay there now. I will give credit where credit is due. My room was fine. But the common areas were just abysmal. Chunks out of the elevator laminate walls....shrubs unkept. Dirty hallways....floors that hadnt been mopped for days. I seen spills that were left for days on end. Rusty metal chairs outside the food court.

There is another thing that I thought was a nice surprise. The life guards on duty at the pool were excellent. I sat and watched them for sometime and IMO they were highly trained and did thier job extremely well. Very attentive to what they were doing. They quickly got to know every child in the pool and kept track of them. I even saw them counting kids at one point....even after they had just counted them niutes prior. Job well done.

I found it incredible that they removed a water play area at Pop rather than fix it, while at the same time opening up a brand new resort right across the lake that had one. Why bother installing it if it won't last ten years?

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe I overreacted in saying all "Signatures" besides Victoria and Albert's are over-rated. But they are over-priced. For example the potato wrapped red snapper at Flying Fish is excellent but not worth $36 (or whatever it costs this week I sure it will go up soon enough).

Oh, I agree. Prices were always high. But DDP means ridiculous increases annually. ... I'm planning a meal at FF on my next visit and it will be my first in years. I'll bet that $28 steak is now about $44. And that $8 salad is now about $15. And that $9 dessert is now $15. etc...