Disney springs not doing so well.....

[wdisney9000]

Its really convenient when I forget to bring along my Raglan Road, Morrimotos, Wolfgang Puck, Ghirrodelli, Paradiso37, and Boathouse restaurants.

The restaurants are about the only reason I would visit. But I dont see a Mother or Father sitting on their computer at midnight to book that high value Frozen Ever After FP+ 90 days out getting excited about taking a day off from the parks to shop at The Art of Shaving, Kate Spade or Anthropologie,... do you?

Just because Disney execs clasp their hands tightly and wish to have big whale guests drop thousands a day does not change the hard fact that about 80-90% of their actual guests have done everything they can to save money on their vacation. Most save for over a year or two just to be able to visit because prices are so high.

 

[JohnD]

I went there last night after AK closed. Checked a part of Town Center, the Marketplace and The Landing. Seemed busy enough to me. Going back this morning / afternoon before MNSSHP. I have a lunch ADR at Homecoming. Going West Side direction this time.

 

[21stamps]

the hard fact that about 80-90% of their actual guests have done everything they can to save money on their vacation. Most save for over a year or two just to be able to visit because prices are so high.

I don't think that is true. At least no where that kind of percentage. I think "some" would be accurate, not "most".

 

[Jon81uk]

But when on vacation do you want to go to a mall that has everything you can buy in your local mall? I mean aside from the fact that you might have forgotten something... as an entertainment option on your vacation, do you want to go to Old Navy or The Gap? I say No... I want unique experiences and things that I can't find anywhere else... If I forgot something, there are plenty of shopping options and department stores a quick Uber away...but the last thing I want my vacation to be is a trip to the Mall.

I think thats why there isn't Old Navy or Gap at Disney Springs. Uniqlo and Zara are less common in the US.

The shops seemed unique enough, but not all of them were engaging for me. Coming from London I have good access to high-end stores anyway, we go to the Outlet stores to look for bargains instead, most of what I bought last trip was Adidas, Nike, Converse or Under Armour from Premium Outlets. The only Disney t-shirts I bought were Uniqlo as they are better designs for a lower price than World of Disney.

 

[wdwfan22]

As I have said in another thread, I don't see how the new stores could be performing well (a few exceptions of course) There is plenty of foot traffic through there but if you stop and look you don't see many people with bags from the higher end stores. It will be interesting to see which stores make it and which don't.

 

[wdisney9000]

I don't think that is true. At least no where that kind of percentage. I think "some" would be accurate, not "most".

Read the trip reports or look at the countdown for most peoples trips. Their usually around a year or more. People get excited for the double digit dance. Sure, there a plenty of people who visit without saving for a year, but there a way more who save and wait. That doesnt mean they are poor, just that they cant, or dont want to drop $5k without saving a little.

And wealthy people dont accumulate their wealth by haphazardly spending. Id venture to say that their wealthier guests take the same, if not more advantages of saving money where they can as much as the average guest does. Wealthy people are more cheap than anybody.

 

[21stamps]

Read the trip reports or look at the countdown for most peoples trips. Their usually around a year or more. People get excited for the double digit dance. Sure, there a plenty of people who visit without saving for a year, but there a way more who save and wait. That doesnt mean they are poor, just that they cant, or dont want to drop $5k without saving a little.

And wealthy people dont accumulate their wealth by haphazardly spending. Id venture to say that their wealthier guests take the same, if not more advantages of saving money where they can as much as the average guest does. Wealthy people are more cheap than anybody.

There is a very large spectrum, which contains millions and millions of people, in between the categories of "poor" and "wealthy". Most of Americans actually, and probably most international travelers as well.

These stores are normal stores..designed for average people, middle class - upper middle class. These aren't high end designer stores. Like I said, they already exist in almost every big city in a decent mall.

I don't think anywhere near 80-90% of WDW visitors save for years to go there. Trip reports or not. Is there actual data to support that?

 

[flynnibus]

It's hard for retail shops to compete with the rise of Internet shopping. The last new shopping mall built in america was in 2007.

We don't build 'malls' now... we build 'town centers'

 

[flynnibus]

Disney aimed higher end... we saw this from the start.

With these boutique kind of places there will always be turnover... the key will be is if Disney can keep tenants or will have to resort to running shops themselves (DTD in Anaheim).

I don't think we as a collective understand these kinds of retail situations. I mean, you walk through something like the shopping districts most major Casinos in Vegas have.. and you say 'who buys this stuff' 'who shops here' 'how do they stay open'... yet you hear these insane stores being some of the most profitable space around.

I'm pretty sure Disney wanted to be that Vegas mall... be that high end shopping experience that the traveler who wants to fill their suitcases for the way home.. or a new level for the locals.

Disney Springs sure packs them in... the question is why. Why are people there.. because they have no where else to go? Because they are eating... window shopping.. live music.. what.

I've found the place pretty unbearable given the crowds and transportation issues. The latter should clear up.. but right now I found it input vs return was tough.

 

[Bairstow]

The only Disney t-shirts I bought were Uniqlo as they are better designs for a lower price than World of Disney.

Yeah, I can't imagine that's going to last.

It surprised me to see Disney letting Uniqlo undercut them so much at their Store. Why pay Disney $28 for a Mickey T-shirt when Uniqlo sells more interesting one for $9?

 

[FullSailDan]

I don't think that is true. At least no where that kind of percentage. I think "some" would be accurate, not "most".

When I went through traditions in 2005 it was stated that the average guest saves for 5 years to be able to come to WDW. Since then, the economy has tanked, wages have been suppressed, the cost of living has increased, and in general put a squeeze on the middle class. So it really wouldn't be surprising for that stat from 2005 to be true today, and probably increased to some measure.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Read the trip reports or look at the countdown for most peoples trips. Their usually around a year or more. People get excited for the double digit dance. Sure, there a plenty of people who visit without saving for a year, but there a way more who save and wait. That doesnt mean they are poor, just that they cant, or dont want to drop $5k without saving a little.

And wealthy people dont accumulate their wealth by haphazardly spending. Id venture to say that their wealthier guests take the same, if not more advantages of saving money where they can as much as the average guest does. Wealthy people are more cheap than anybody.

I think the word you are looking for is frugal. Also, there are different types of wealthy people. Those that made their own wealth and would tend to be frugal because they know exactly how hard it was to aquire it. Then there are those that live the lifestyle off of someone elses frugality and tend to not appreciate the effort put in to aquiring it. Then you have those that come into wealth for a brief period of time. Toss up on these people. Some spend and make it rain and some tend to maintain the lifestyle they had before.

So to say that wealthy people are cheap is really kind of disrespectful.

 

[raven]

If Disney Springs was trying to duplicate Worth Avenue, Bal Harbour, Rodeo Drive, or anything similar, then I would definitely think they would fail. That's not what they've done. They added stores who are already in most good malls.

Not exciting for visiting guests who have the same stores in their own towns.

Remember the ORIGINAL line up ideas they had 5 or 6 years ago? Titles like "Walt's Place" and stores and restaurants that suggested they would be one of a kind.

For locals, its perfect. I just dont see any appeal as an out of state traveler.

I'm a local and I try to stay away from that place unless I have a reservation at a restaurant there. I can get what I need just up the road without having to deal with all the Disney traffic. Yes, it's beautiful. But not practice for anything that I would need.

 

[Bairstow]

Seeing as how crowded the Springs already are, I can't imagine how mobbed Disney expected it to be.

 

[Jon81uk]

Yeah, I can't imagine that's going to last.

It surprised me to see Disney letting Uniqlo undercut them so much at their Store. Why pay Disney $28 for a Mickey T-shirt when Uniqlo sells more interesting one for $9?

I paid $15, but I agree the Uniqlo designs are more refined and less garish than most of the stuff in the WDW parks. I don't think Disney can stop them very easily as the Uniqlo pricing would be set nationally and worldwide (similar t-shirts are £15 in London).

 

[shernernum]

This is purely anecdotal, however I was at the Springs two nights last week (Monday and Wednesday). Foot traffic in the Landing and the West Side was very heavy. The restaurants that I looked into were all full (including STK, Homecoming...Frontera). The bar level of the Coke Store was empty, I think the foot traffic in that section is suffering because of the Observatory, especially at night, because that becomes a very dark pathway, even if it is next to the Orange garage.
The World of Disney/Lego Store section of the Marketplace was also busy with lots of families at the dance party. However, when you got past Ghirardelli's it was very quiet.
The retail path of Town Center was also very sparse. It didn't seem like people coming in from the buses or Lime garage were lingering, they were heading to the Landing straightaway for food, entertainment etc.
My impression was that there were two mistakes in laying out the area. The first was that moving the bus stops and garage entrances toward the "middle" have made it less appealing to walk over to the marketplace (aside from WOD which has an entrance on the Town Center side.) Also, by concentrating the Food and Drink along the straight path basically from, Paddlefish to HOB With some exception on the front side of the Town Center and Rainforest, they have concentrated the traffic as well. I know they were going for a "district" feel, however I can't help but think the retail would have more traffic if it were interpersed with the dining, bars, and entertainment a little better.

 

[G00fyDad]

People keep saying this, but I have yet to see any solid evidence Disney Springs is doomed. I'm there at least once a week and its always bustling, even the Town Center and the Disney owned stores. Something isn't adding up. Of course I know large influxes of people doesn't equate to showstopping success, but still.

"bustling" doesn't equate to dollars spent.

 

[Jon81uk]

Remember the ORIGINAL line up ideas they had 5 or 6 years ago? Titles like "Walt's Place" and stores and restaurants that suggested they would be one of a kind.

Assuming you are referencing these slides

We got Disney Burger, its D-Luxe burger
The Disney Bakery is Amorettes
Trader Sams went in the Poly, but Disney Springs got Jock's
They built food truck park.
I guess we got The Ganachery instead of Powell's.
Wine Bar George is coming next year.
I assume Blaze Pizza replaced Shake Shack.

Walt's Place may still be coming as part of The Edison development next year.

Other than character dining pretty much all of the original concepts on this slide did open.

With the stores slide, I don't see any interesting original concepts anyway. Many brands would be unique to Disney Springs in Florida, I don't think there is Topshop, Superdry, Uniqlo in many other places in the USA except larger cities. But the retail mix is similar to what the slide promised.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Why the hell can't you people read what I freaking write? I SAY THAT IN THE VERY LAST SENTENCE OF MY POST.

Maybe because you didnt type it in all caps before?

 

[Jon81uk]

The World of Disney/Lego Store section of the Marketplace was also busy with lots of families at the dance party. However, when you got past Ghirardelli's it was very quiet.

I think that is a problem, the only thing to draw you to the back of the marketplace now is Rainforest Cafe. Whereas before the bus stop was at that end and then World of Disney and the rest of DTD was the draw back out of Marketplace. and there used to be be the second Pleasure Island set of bus stops.