Disney slowly losing some of what made it special.

[WEDwaydatamover]

eiza61nyc, I don't think that you completely get it and that was a big part of my argument but I respect your opinion and time. I will think about it.

 

[eliza61nyc]

eiza61nyc, I don't think that you completely get it and that was a big part of my argument but I respect your opinion and time. I will think about it.

I definitely agree, I do think it's sort of one of those circular arguments. The biggest challenge is that there really is no way for those of us that are "late" bloomers to the world to connect with what I call the "magic decades". my first time was back in the 70's and the trip was an unmitigated disaster, lol my family had a horrible time and we thought it was the biggest waste of money but there was only 1 park.
After that I did not return until almost 2000 when I had kids, so I really didn't fall in love with the world until 2000/2001.

I always ask dissatisfied (that might be the best description) customers, how they are going to go forward. The reality is, for whatever reason this is the business model Disney has decided to follow and IMO will be following for the immediate future (let's say the next 10 years) and whether we agree or not the parks seem to be pack. That maybe because of a good economy or because of Disney marketing but they are pack so there is no incentive to change.
So how do you keep justifying spending that type of money on vacation if when you go, all you see is what's wrong with the parks or all you do is compare it to the glory days?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

A WDW vacation has changed. There has been sacrifices and gains. The charm and class has been replaced by crass commercialism. Back in the day, rose gold mouse ears would have just been another choice for the kids. Now they are a Disneyverse (btw, back in the day there was no Disneyverse) phenomenon. Newbies LOVE the new way and will plan a trip to get the new ears. Us older folks just smh.

There is no right or wrong. It's just different. Some will love it, some will hate it. WDW used to be a nice classy resort owned by Disney but didn't immerse you in the brand 24/7. They let the quality represent the brand. Now pushing the brand is paramount and inescapable. So newbies associate this brand immersion as being at Disney. Older fans find it cloying and crass.

Old school Disney Resort

New school Disney Resort

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I'll repeat.

"It isn't nearly as infeasible as some make it out to be...is my point."

And, if you look at my Trip Report, you'll see I was very aware the crowds were low (lower than usual even, as I used to regularly come during this week from 2010 - 2014).

But, I thought the "general consensus" was "there are no slow times anymore"...now you say it is the "lowest 20%"? So, there is ebb and flow? So confusing.

Go in July or the last few weeks of Dec early Jan, guess what...it's crowded.

Want special or hot new attractions or dining experiences? Guess what...they book up early.

Heck, in mid-Oct I'm going to go see Phil Collins in NYC, and I'm taking my Dad.

He wants to do a dinner cruise and a double decker tour of the city. Guess what....3 months ago, most of the cruises were already booked. And some of the tours (outside of the hop on hop off) he was interested in, already booked. And this was back in May, when I got the Phil Collins tickets, which...guess what...were booking up fast, and I was lucky to get the seats I did.

Two years ago I had to plan a last minute trip to replace my trip to Disneyland Paris with the kiddo, and I also chose NYC. I was still able to get a room, access to a Times Square New Years Rooftop Party and other things within 3 days of visit. It was costly, it was difficult (took a lot of try and fail research), we had to stay in Brooklyn in a 1 bedroom room, and I didn't get my first (or second or third or fourth) choices. But, it happened. And, it was glorious.

This isn't any different than any other vacation experience out there, in that respect.

Do I like FP+? Not really. I miss the paper FP more for the:

a) Lack of limitations
b) "Guest interaction" that happened regularly....you'd be leaving a park and see a family entering and give them your FPs, and vice versa...that is gone...but was a nice "community" touch.

Do I like the fact you have to book ADRs for the more popular venues? Not really. But, that doesn't mean you need ADRs to eat well when there, especially if you look outside of the popular options and/or eat off schedule (which even with ADRs you may need to do).

If you don't like the pre-planning nature, fine. Accept that, and move on. 8 years ago to get BBB in the Castle or to eat at Cindy's, I had to call early. That part hasn't changed (and never will).

So, I'll repeat...

"It isn't nearly as infeasible as some make it out to be...is my point."

Because, it isn't.

^^All of this.

And @englanddg - aren't you still traveling as a party of two?

So again... not exactly the same type of experience that a more average party would see.

You mean I’m not the only party of two?

We were in the World in mid July. Throughout the trip we were able to get same/next day FP's for Toy Story, Frozen, Soarin, RnRc, the Mountains, Peter Pan... not all as a party of 2 either, we visited with friends and some of those were party of 4. We also had a couple of times where wait times for Toy Story & Soarin were under 20 mins.

I also booked FoP at about 20 days out. Checked a few times over the weeks leading up to our trip. Got a Slinky FP for 4 at a few weeks out.

I booked several "hot" ADRs (Ohana, California Grill) at about 30 days out. Party of 4. I didn't make any of our ADRs at 180 days as we didn't even book until about 70 out.

But, I guess I am in the minority or lucky. Or 4 is still not the "average" party. Though I am not the only person to point this out to the many with fingers in their ears, who only check at 180/60 days out then cry about the crazy planning. So perhaps not.

^^and all of this.

There is no right or wrong. It's just different. Some will love it, some will hate it.

Yep.

 

[MinnieWaffles]

A WDW vacation has changed. There has been sacrifices and gains. The charm and class has been replaced by crass commercialism. Back in the day, rose gold mouse ears would have just been another choice for the kids. Now they are a Disneyverse (btw, back in the day there was no Disneyverse) phenomenon. Newbies LOVE the new way and will plan a trip to get the new ears. Us older folks just smh.

There is no right or wrong. It's just different. Some will love it, some will hate it. WDW used to be a nice classy resort owned by Disney but didn't immerse you in the brand 24/7. They let the quality represent the brand. Now pushing the brand is paramount and inescapable. So newbies associate this brand immersion as being at Disney. Older fans find it cloying and crass.

Old school Disney Resort

New school Disney Resort

Not a fair comparison. Movies is a value resort, the Poly is a deluxe. Better to compare it to newer deluxes like AKL or WL. But I don't expect a fair comparison from people like you.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Not a fair comparison. Movies is a value resort, the Poly is a deluxe. Better to compare it to newer deluxes like AKL or WL. But I don't expect a fair comparison from people like you.

My response would that old school Disney wouldn't have built the cheap tacky value resorts and they are an example of just the type of change I am referring too.

 

[flynnibus]

Not a fair comparison. Movies is a value resort, the Poly is a deluxe. Better to compare it to newer deluxes like AKL or WL. But I don't expect a fair comparison from people like you.

Newer deluxes? You mean the ones that opened 24 and 17 years ago? Those were designed in the last century... Art of Animation was not. That's kinda the point.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

My response would that old school Disney wouldn't have built the cheap tacky value resorts and they are an example of just the type of change I am referring too.

There are plenty of resorts to suit every taste. Some no doubt expect the big characters all over.

 

[LaughingGravy]

1991 Fantasy In the Sky twinkling trees adding magic, simpler, not as busy, IMO classier.
It's fireworks with nice music like you might have in your town, but not the "must see" that demands the area be cleared for the massive crowds at the expense of beauty during the daytime.



Recent version for those of the short attention span.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Newer deluxes? You mean the ones that opened 24 and 17 years ago? Those were designed in the last century... Art of Animation was not. That's kinda the point.

But you can't compare values vs deluxes no matter when they were built. The poly isn't a better hotel because it was built during some golden age of Disney, its a deluxe that is always going to put it ahead of a value.

 

[eliza61nyc]

My response would that old school Disney wouldn't have built the cheap tacky value resorts and they are an example of just the type of change I am referring too.

Nonsense, First of all values are not "tacky ". That's your opinion. Disney built the values because it was an opportunity to get a segment of the population that doesn't have deep pockets. They are no more tacky than a hampton Inn or the Holiday Inn and I know folks who prefer the values because they feel more "disney"
I find it really hypocritical to complain about Disney prices too much for the middle class yet deride the values that make it affordable to visit.

 

[flynnibus]

But you can't compare values vs deluxes no matter when they were built. The poly isn't a better hotel because it was built during some golden age of Disney, its a deluxe that is always going to put it ahead of a value.

I don't think you get the message in the post at all. It was about the the style and design mindset - not level of amenities, services, or room level. It was about what the company valued and promoted...

Your further response that plastering more characters over something makes it feel 'more disney' is the exact kind of derail his post was highlighting.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I don't think you get the message in the post at all. It was about the the style and design mindset - not level of amenities, services, or room level. It was about what the company valued and promoted...

Your further response that plastering more characters over something makes it feel 'more disney' is the exact kind of derail his post was highlighting.

I get it, I just don't happen to agree. Are you saying that because the company built the values somehow they are lacking in quality or attention to detail.

Im calling bull. That's a bunch of crap AND no you cannot compare the poly to the allstar any more than you can compare a the 4 seasons to motel 6. They are meant to be different but different does not signify lesser or poorly made

 

[flynnibus]

No mas... can't be dragged down into that hole

 

[eliza61nyc]

Ok Ill bite how do the values indicate a decline in quality?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Ok Ill bite how do the values indicate a decline in quality?

The snobs think Disney characters are bad at Disney World, and that people who think Disney characters feel “more Disney” are uncultured masses of commercialized buffoons. (Because theme parks are so full of fine art.)

 

[Goofyernmost]

No, Disney parks are still producing what made it special. The problem right now is that they have been forcing the cost of admission so high that they have either taken away the good feeling because people are having to spend to much to experience it or they are pricing so many out of being able to go at all, that the joy is diminishing for very many. Give Disney one more major downturn in the economy and things are going to start looking pretty bad. For those that just got all upset for my saying that and wanting to ask what makes me think that there will be a downturn... Well, my friends, it is history. It'll happen, we just don't know when. There are a lot of things that humans have accomplished over time, but, they never seem to be able to understand cycles and the history of cycles. To bad, but, in my opinion it is factual.

 

[englanddg]

If I may, I think part of the "distaste" of the value design style is that they are reminiscent of everything that Disney used to not be about.

Long gone are the treks down state highways, with the Orange Tower and stops at South of the Border, or the massive buildup of crass hotels and gimmicky things just off Disney property.

The whole area has gone "upper class".

But, Disney went "lower class"...embracing these things and making the value resorts.

Not that I mind them. But, I think that's where it comes from. It's partially a snobbery, and it's partially a fact. Staying on property, even in a Deluxe, is not nearly as "elite" as it used to be, and the experience is not nearly as "classy" as it used to be.

Disney whiffed a little bit of Six Flags, and still hasn't sneezed it out.

---

All that said...it's a business. And, it can't stay stagnant. Crowd demands change. I miss old Disney, but I also can embrace "new" Disney.

I point to Pandora, for example. A lot of it is gimmicky and silly, but the land as a whole, and the FoP ride (the river ride is...meh)....are in line with Disney of old.

 

[eliza61nyc]

If I may, I think part of the "distaste" of the value design style is that they are reminiscent of everything that Disney used to not be about.

Long gone are the treks down state highways, with the Orange Tower and stops at South of the Border, or the massive buildup of crass hotels and gimmicky things just off Disney property.

The whole area has gone "upper class".

But, Disney went "lower class"...embracing these things and making the value resorts.

Not that I mind them. But, I think that's where it comes from. It's partially a snobbery, and it's partially a fact. Staying on property, even in a Deluxe, is not nearly as "elite" as it used to be, and the experience is not nearly as "classy" as it used to be.

.

I would agree with you IF putting in values took away something from Deluxes. so let's say we go with the premise of "upper class". How is having "lower class" accommodations taking anything away from those who stay in the Deluxes??
Classy? how was staying at the Grand Floridian prior Classy? I thought it was always about location as most folks recognize that Disney Deluxes are not on par as the hotel industry 5 stars. It never was on the level of say a 4 seasons.

People who stay in deluxes don't even see the value resorts. Disney didn't go lower class, they realized the fact that not everyone can drop 400 bucks a night to stay at the Poly or the Grand Floridian, they recognized their is an entire segment in the population that is not upper middle class and wealthy and offered them the option of getting some of the benefits of staying onsite.

Ironically most of the people I know who stay in the values don't do it because it's cheap and can well afford the deluxes. Most of the people I know who do it do so because 1) They don't spend a lot of time at the resort, staying at the parks all day so just want a place to sleep and shower or 2) are avid travelers and simply refuse to pay 5 star prices for location since most feel that the deluxes are not really luxury hotels at all

LOL, Wow reminds me of the Titanic. why not just put the folks in steerage while we're at it.

I totally admit, I do not get the connection of building the values and a decline in quality.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Another problem is that they have made the experience, not only more expensive, but, far too complicated. It's more relaxing to just stay at work, then to have a Disney Vacation. It's always plan months ahead or you may not see everything you want. It's juggling a complex schedule or FP rides and meals and what park to go to on what day and the conflicting, yet well meaning, suggestions from friends as to what the best way is. It's something like planning D-Day.

Since I have seen a couple of changes that seem to want to give even people that don't stay onsite to have a few perks for just going through the expense and motivation required to make the trip without having to mortgage their homes to do so. They seem to be starting to recognize that those people that aren't wealthy can still go and be included and spend money in the parks because they have some left.

I still enjoy the park almost like I did back when I first went, but, if I had to pay the money that Disney is asking and implying is necessary for a immersive trip... I wouldn't go at all or if I did, all I would think about is how long it was going to take to payback the expenditure.