Disney slowly losing some of what made it special.

flynnibus

Premium Member
That's what I don't get, folks here relive the "glory" days of Disney like they were great, lol it reminds me of people who fantasize the 50's and 60's and want to return to a much "simpler" time. basically all it's saying is that those times were good for them.

The days when it was a resort were awesome. I cherrish the times I learned to water ski and kneeboard in Bay Lake. Used to canoe and hike at the campgrounds with fire side activities. Renting the sea sprites... When River Country was like nothing else.. My first experiences being left to wander the parks on my own.. and sitting in Earth Station looking at the large boards as I wanted for my meetup time... to when Communicore was COOL and you were more upset you could never get your turn.. instead of the dead space it is now. To when I did Keys to the Kingdom and got to watch Mission from Mars from BELOW... and got a hardcard imagineering book as part of the experience. Playing golf with my father...

The reason people want those 'simplier times' is because they are reminiscing about a period where there was less STRESS or pressure to do MORE MORE MORE. Disney has exasperated this problem with their product packaging and marketing. WDW is no longer about 'more than you can see in 7 days' its "how to do as much as possible in 7 days" where Disney pounds into you everywhere you go about 'must dos' and 'dont miss' and pushing you to schedule everything so you don't miss out!

WDW used to be one park and a shopping plaza... and people still spent a week there. It's not because you were droned into going to the MK for 84hrs a week. We would go with the all inclusive Magic Kingdom Club offers so it was 3 meals a day, all the recreation you could handle.

WDW used to be a vacation kingdom. Now it's a sprint to get as much as you can in... with Mickey willing to take your credit card at every turn to let you through the velvet rope.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
The days when it was a resort were awesome. I cherrish the times I learned to water ski and kneeboard in Bay Lake. Used to canoe and hike at the campgrounds with fire side activities. Renting the sea sprites... When River Country was like nothing else.. My first experiences being left to wander the parks on my own.. and sitting in Earth Station looking at the large boards as I wanted for my meetup time... to when Communicore was COOL and you were more upset you could never get your turn.. instead of the dead space it is now. To when I did Keys to the Kingdom and got to watch Mission from Mars from BELOW... and got a hardcard imagineering book as part of the experience. Playing golf with my father...

The reason people want those 'simplier times' is because they are reminiscing about a period where there was less STRESS or pressure to do MORE MORE MORE. Disney has exasperated this problem with their product packaging and marketing. WDW is no longer about 'more than you can see in 7 days' its "how to do as much as possible in 7 days" where Disney pounds into you everywhere you go about 'must dos' and 'dont miss' and pushing you to schedule everything so you don't miss out!

WDW used to be one park and a shopping plaza... and people still spent a week there. It's not because you were droned into going to the MK for 84hrs a week. We would go with the all inclusive Magic Kingdom Club offers so it was 3 meals a day, all the recreation you could handle.

WDW used to be a vacation kingdom. Now it's a sprint to get as much as you can in... with Mickey willing to take your credit card at every turn to let you through the velvet rope.
Hey you get no argument from me. That sounds wonderful but again it's a little like the old folks saying "when I was young". There is no way for me to experience those days, so don't think im crazy because I love the world ( not that you do). As you said before Disney is always changing so maybe in 20 years from now it will go back to some version of what you knew and enjoy. I'm equally glad i still feel the magic, I wouldn't want to go somewhere and constantly wish it was different. I still feel the magic, I still cry when i step onto main street. I just got back from a vacation with 5 -20 something millenials. I'm beyond happy that noone whined about how a ride wasn't a "E" ticket ride but instead simply had a good time on the ride. I'm happy that no one compares rides to some standard from 39 years ago, lol maybe ignorance is bliss.
My 20 somethings can't wait to go back and we never feel the need to do "more" and we definitely don't stress, but we have a dvc so we know what ever we didn't fo this trip will get done on another.
We can't wait for star wars and we don't kvetch that it's an IP and not original.

Wishing you better times.

ps. I've got a trip report going on the other forum if you want to see what we thought.
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Hey you get no argument from me. That sounds wonderful but again it's a little like the old folks saying "when I was young". There is no way for me to experience those days, so don't think im crazy because I love the world ( not that you do). As you said before Disney is always changing so maybe in 20 years from now it will go back to some version of what you knew and enjoy. I'm equally glad i still feel the magic, I wouldn't want to go somewhere and constantly wish it was different. I still feel the magic, I still cry when i step onto main street. I just got back from a vacation with 5 20 something millenials. Im beyond happy that noone whined about how a ride wasn't a "E" ticket ride but instead simply had a good time on the ride.
Wishing you better times.
Many say that all the folks that had the bad judgment to be born years later then us are not crazy for loving the place. Even without the little things from the past, if any of us had made our first trip there this year, we would love it too and think it is great. Why? Because it is. Unfortunately, many see the past through distorted eyes. They remember only the good things and not the bad. Disney listened to the demands of many. They also promoted themselves and brain washed so many into thinking that they have to do things Disney's way (which is also defined as the most expensive) to the point that they were forced to schedule everything. Disney created that system and designed it as a way to make as much money as possible and it forces people to jump through hoops to achieve the goals that Disney set for them.

I remember a less stressful time, not necessarily a time where the actual things to see and do were better. What did exist was just easier to experience and way less stressful. I have done Disney basically the same way now that I did 35 years ago. I have done that in a way that many just don't want to do. They have convinced themselves or have been convinced that unless they pay the long dollar to "immerse" themselves in mouse juice, they cannot possibly enjoy themselves.

In my early years I had no financial choice but to do the parks the cheap way. I didn't stay onsite, I ate very few meals, with the exception of lunch, onsite. I showed up at rope and enjoyed the parks. I left at night and went back to comfortable hotels at one quarter of the price and ate at a variety of good restaurants at around a quarter of that price too. Then as I got older and made enough money to be able to pay Disney prices, it just never seemed worth it to me. I could see nothing that I gained by that special immersion and could save literally tens of thousands of dollars over the years. At the same time I could find no reason, no net gain for spending that much extra to get the same thing I got for what I paid. Might I have been to "cheap" to spend the money? Sure, maybe. But, I never had to ask myself if what I did spend was worth it. That greatly enhanced my enjoyment. But, having experienced both the old way and the new way I still see things that I feel worked better in the beginning before you had to spreadsheet your vacation.

The reality is that the attractions are shorter then before, but, technically the new ones are superior to the old stuff. The appearance of the parks is brighter and cleaner in a sense then it was back in the good old days. That is part of a cultural change, not necessarily the lack of concern from Disney, People are now slobs, more so then most of the people that were fortunate enough to be able to afford to go there were brought up to respect the property of others. I've always been interested in asking the people that complain about trash in the paths, how many of them picked up that trash and put it where belonged. There is an old saying that goes... If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If you don't help keep the place clean and just say... where are the CM's, why aren't they picking this up then you are part of the problem. You many not have placed it there but you certainly played a huge roll in it staying there. CM's cannot be everyplace at once. But, let's blame Disney and the "budget" cuts.

Sorry for the rant here, but, it really is upsetting for me to listen to the whining when in many instances it is only being looked at from one perspective. Many remember the place through very young eyes as children. No one remembers things exactly like they were back then because our perspective was jaded. For those that can go back to where you were raised and look around. Remember how big the place seemed back then. How did it happen that it looks so small now? Because of youthful perspective and youthful memory when our attention span was a flash. So I try to enjoy what is there, not what isn't even though I occasionally think that some things could still be the same. For example the eating onsite situation. Know why it is like it is now? To make things better? No, it was because Disney decided that they wanted to be Inn Keepers. You basically imprison people in a location you have to have a lot more places to feed them and you have to be able to plan how many. There is an increase in the numbers of people that visit WDW, but, considering they added 3 more parks since the beginning, the actual voluntary usage of the restaurants has increased because the captive audience has no choice but to make reservations months ahead of actually needing them. That is where things got bad, the parks themselves are still great entertainment, but, the peripheral needs are what is making it more stressful.
 
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englanddg

One Little Spark...
The days when it was a resort were awesome. I cherrish the times I learned to water ski and kneeboard in Bay Lake. Used to canoe and hike at the campgrounds with fire side activities. Renting the sea sprites... When River Country was like nothing else.. My first experiences being left to wander the parks on my own.. and sitting in Earth Station looking at the large boards as I wanted for my meetup time... to when Communicore was COOL and you were more upset you could never get your turn.. instead of the dead space it is now. To when I did Keys to the Kingdom and got to watch Mission from Mars from BELOW... and got a hardcard imagineering book as part of the experience. Playing golf with my father...

The reason people want those 'simplier times' is because they are reminiscing about a period where there was less STRESS or pressure to do MORE MORE MORE. Disney has exasperated this problem with their product packaging and marketing. WDW is no longer about 'more than you can see in 7 days' its "how to do as much as possible in 7 days" where Disney pounds into you everywhere you go about 'must dos' and 'dont miss' and pushing you to schedule everything so you don't miss out!
.

I applied for a job a Disney, my first "real application" for work at the brand new "Cast Member Center" whatever they call it now, it was brand new then.

What a quiz I had to do, from figuring sales tax in my head to other things they tested for.

Did the first round, passed that, did the second round, passed that, then they found out I was a 15 year old who "lived" in FL for a few months a year, and was not offered a job.

Not that I mind, the job I wanted was a street sweeper at EPCOT. And, I wanted that job because I thought it was cool to do what I did, which was wander around the parks with my limited Spanish and German, and I thought it was cool that I could understand them and direct them to bathrooms.

The "world" has changed.
 

Minnie1976

Well-Known Member
I am a big Disney fan and long time lurker on this forum. 2nd generation DVC and coming since 94. My concerns are that in the time I have been coming I have seen a erosion of the unique. Examples would be the candy woman in Epcot Japan, Adventurer's club , egg painting in Germany etc. Also the reduced capacity at the rides to save pennies on slower park day's. As I compose this so many things come to mind that have been reduced or removed, from park hours to activities. Disney is foolish to do this. I am fine with the increasing costs but keep all the special things, park hours and ride capacity. The fan base has a lot of patience and love for the brand but it is fraying at the edges. My feelings may really only apply to a long time park goer. If you are only here once or twice you are so sensory over loaded you would never see what I am talking about.
If you have been coming since 1994, imagine the difference I’ve seen since 1976 and not good. Too much planning has to go into a trip. Yep, you don’t gave to do it, but you do if you are bringing children. It makes life a little easier.
Y’all can scream but the attractions went better before fastpasses plus. Also when the attractions were run as originally planned to run.
 

Minnie1976

Well-Known Member
FP+ was merely a modification of an already bad idea being FP itself. It did make it worse in many ways though. It was easier in some ways, but, made the line wait situation an overall disaster.
I totally agree! I had never seen a line for Pirates out on the walkway until they started with fastpass plus. There use to be 2 sides open. Now the stand bye line us so long and a few on the fastpass side.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Hey you get no argument from me. That sounds wonderful but again it's a little like the old folks saying "when I was young". There is no way for me to experience those days, so don't think im crazy because I love the world ( not that you do)

You may not have gotten to experience it, but that doesn’t mean you should marginalize it or treat it as some people who just won’t move on. (As is frequently done in these threads by posters). People keep on with this mindset of “well it’s good for me, so you all must just be old cranky get off my yawn folks” or something of that track. Verse accepting that what they know, isn’t all that Disney CAN be. Or recognizing Disney today is built on the past...not just the current.

I'm equally glad i still feel the magic, I wouldn't want to go somewhere and constantly wish it was different. I still feel the magic, I still cry when i step onto main street. I just got back from a vacation with 5 -20 something millenials. I'm beyond happy that noone whined about how a ride wasn't a "E" ticket ride but instead simply had a good time on the ride. I'm happy that no one compares rides to some standard from 39 years ago, lol maybe ignorance is bliss.

But just think how much of your frustration with your brother on that trip stemmed from his lack of respect for the “Disney requirements”.

Last minute travel... so no FPs... this wasn’t a problem in the past
Wanting to change tickets... when tickets never expired and weren’t tacked to a person, this wouldn’t have been an issue to just hold the ticket for later use
ADRs - used to do them with less lead time... so again late changes were less disruptive

Just saying you can see how the “system” today can have lots of constraints that frustrated you when your brother stumbled through them disrupting your plan. Those same constraints can be a friction point even if the changes are genuine needs.. and not from bumbling brothers :)

This is what rubs people... when something Disney did well... gets worse.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
You may not have gotten to experience it, but that doesn’t mean you should marginalize it or treat it as some people who just won’t move on. (As is frequently done in these threads by posters). People keep on with this mindset of “well it’s good for me, so you all must just be old cranky get off my yawn folks” or something of that track. Verse accepting that what they know, isn’t all that Disney CAN be. Or recognizing Disney today is built on the past...not just the current.



But just think how much of your frustration with your brother on that trip stemmed from his lack of respect for the “Disney requirements”.

Last minute travel... so no FPs... this wasn’t a problem in the past
Wanting to change tickets... when tickets never expired and weren’t tacked to a person, this wouldn’t have been an issue to just hold the ticket for later use
ADRs - used to do them with less lead time... so again late changes were less disruptive

Just saying you can see how the “system” today can have lots of constraints that frustrated you when your brother stumbled through them disrupting your plan. Those same constraints can be a friction point even if the changes are genuine needs.. and not from bumbling brothers :)

This is what rubs people... when something Disney did well... gets worse.

But here's the difference flynn, my brother has already said that while he had a good time he will not be back and he'll definitely never be going back with us unless he plays by disney's rules.

Whereas folks will complain and complain KNOWING what the deal is and then go back.
So it's very hard not to marginalize the complaints.

maybe it just makes you guys feel better to vent but what's one definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?
Then you (general) you get upset and mock those of us who do like the world. Look at all the snarky remarks that were in the tsl thread when people said they did like the area.
Again, for the forseeable future, this is the direction Disney is going. This is the caliber of rides you are doing to see.
The ADR systems?? It's not going anywhere. You don't want to move on, that's perfectly fine but guess what, it ain't changing.

So again I apologize if you feel we marginalize any thing, I actually feel bad for folks who remember the glory days because IMO you are destined to continued disappointment.
I am willing to bet a very heft sum, this time next year, or whenever it opens, the same folks will be whining about how bad SW galaxies edge is and how crowded it is

So I'll bow out, obviously I don't have anything to add to the unhappiness.

again wishing you success in your future trips.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
But here's the difference flynn, my brother has already said that while he had a good time he will not be back.

Whereas you will complain and complain KNOWING what the deal is and then go back.

Not so. My visiting patterns have changed significantly. If you read my last TR you'd see this year was the first time since 2009 I've taken my kids to WDW. We stopped going to WDW and were doing Disney cruises instead.. where they still very much impressed us and we saw value for our money. I asked the kids after our last trip which they'd want to do next time.. WDW or DCL.. they said DCL. I'll be going for StarWars... but it will unlikely be some grand WDW trip. Maybe I'll sneak it in as a land/sea trip :)

maybe it just makes you guys feel better to vent but whats one definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

I think a lot of people forget, or just can't separate, that a lot of the discussion on this site is not just about 'personal vacations' but people talking about the industry and products themselves as the discussion. It's for FANS of the amusement industry, not just customers of it. So a lot of what you see at time is people discussing Disney and the parks not just from their personal consumption point of view, but what they think from their 'backseat driver' POV :) Many who have no interest in that hobby/interest can't digest or rationalize those discussions and in turn think it's some wierd love/hate thing where they moan, but still buy. I think you see it more because there is more than one demographic/POV being discussed.

Again, for the forseeable future, this is the direction Disney is going. This is the caliber of rides you are doing to see.
So again I don't marginalize any thing, I actually feel bad for folks who remember the glory days because IMO you are destined to continued disappointment.

So I take it then you agree with the OP then? If you say this trajgectory is set.. and people are bound to be disappointed... that says you think Disney is on a decline.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
We're going next week... we'll have a good time in spite of the suits. And it will likely be the last time in a long while until WDW recovers from SW:GE and the 50th Anniversary commotion, and the coming recession resets prices and discounts back into the reasonable zone.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I let my AP expire in 2010. I didn't buy another one until last Thanksgiving. I have gone 4 days on my new pass and have no plan to go again until it expires.

I have determined I just don't care for the new Disney theme park experience. That doesn't make it a bad product. Just not something I enjoy.

And to reiterate what @flynnibus said, the reason that I am here discussing the product is I am a huge amusement park fan who has been going to WDW since 1971. I have seen how the experience has changed over the past 48 years. The fact that the longest lines today at the MK were for M&Gs baffles me. I loathe M&Gs. I have no interest is the specialty merch that everyone goes gaga over. Waiting in line for over a half an hour to get an AP magnet? Really? It's all about "The Brand" now.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
lol except that if I'm spending all that dough to go to Hong Kong, I'm not spending it at a theme park. The reality is that if most folks find the expense of Disneyworld Orlando outrageous I'm thinking Shanghahi is not a realistic goal. not saying I know folks budget just going from the cries of how expensive disneyworld is
Not trying to be funny or anything but here is an bu one at opinion. While the flight to Shanghai can be long and tough, and visas to china are about 300 if you don't want to drive and wait at one of their consulates, going to Shanghai Disney can be a cheaper trip than to Disneyworld by a mile. Park entry comes to around $45 usd. Hotels are cheaper and airfare can be had for under $700 round trip from many most major cities. That said, the most annoying thing is you probably wont have a working cell phone there and that happens to be the only way to do a fast pass.
 

LeighM

Well-Known Member
The reality is that the attractions are shorter then before, but, technically the new ones are superior to the old stuff. The appearance of the parks is brighter and cleaner in a sense then it was back in the good old days. That is part of a cultural change, not necessarily the lack of concern from Disney, People are now slobs, more so then most of the people that were fortunate enough to be able to afford to go there were brought up to respect the property of others. I've always been interested in asking the people that complain about trash in the paths, how many of them picked up that trash and put it where belonged. There is an old saying that goes... If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. If you don't help keep the place clean and just say... where are the CM's, why aren't they picking this up then you are part of the problem. You many not have placed it there but you certainly played a huge roll in it staying there. CM's cannot be everyplace at once. But, let's blame Disney and the "budget" cuts.

I said in a previous post, maybe not this one, is that my feelings are that it's less the parks and more the people that are changing. And your comment reminds me of something I saw locally this past week. Originally, it looked like this part of Virginia would be crushed by Hurricane Florence. One of the local governments, along with VDOT, had opened up a hotline for local residents to report blocked drainage ditches, etc so that they can come by to clear them up before the storm arrives. But when they started going to these locations, most of the complaints were in people's own front yards with blocked gutters. The county sent out messages asking residents to please assist the effort by cleaning up the debris they can in their own yards. What were some of the responses? "If I start to do their jobs, does that mean I'm on the county payroll?" and "Why should I do their jobs for them? That's what they get paid to do!" Now I'm still in my 30s but where I'm from, there was a sense of responsibility to take care of your own stuff as much as possible and help your neighbors that couldn't do it themselves. Save the big work for the county and state. But now it seems like people just want to do the bare minimum and not help clean up the gutters in their own front yard!!! Where I live now, I'm forever seeing people throw trash out of their car as they're driving down this road. If they don't have respect for themselves or their neighbors in their own backyard, I certainly don't expect them to suddenly change when they go somewhere else.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
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It seems that the subject keep propping up and some fans seem tired of it. I don't necessarily disagree with the statement that WDW is loosing some of its magic. I first visited WDW in 1976, just a few years after it opened. Two honeymoons spent there, a yearly trip to the resort since 1999 including spending the millennium (Dec 31st 1999) celebrations in the Magic Kingdom. I myself have worked as an illustrator for Disney in Burbank, CA. I have seen the magic being replaced with schemes to get more money out of you. Epcot soon will loose its original intent (to be like a permanent World Expo) and be more like all the other parks (character and movie based). The food has definitely declined in recent years. Longer lines, strange schemes with the fast passes (like grouping rides under the fast pass so that you couldn't get two passes for the coolest rides close to each other). Hotel maintenance and cleanliness is not as good as it used to be, and the overall impression is less than what it used to be while being much more expensive than before. In 1976, we spent ten days at the Contemporary hotel. These days that hotel seems just out of reach when you consider the fact that you would only see it late at night and early before hitting the park. The place is also overbuilt in parts like the contemporary resort where there used to be space but now there's a conference center and an extra tower for timeshares. In my opinion, the time is right for Disney to build another park somewhere like Texas. Split the crowds between Florida, Texas and California. You'd be amazed to see how many people that visit WDW are from Texas. If they build a third resort in the states it would at least thin out the crowds at WDW for a few years. The overall experience for people would be nicer. There are times (like February) where it is nice to visit WDW but visits during the summer have become almost intolerable. Also the competition is better than ever. Universal's Harry Potter's attractions are the most immersive setups I have ever experience in a park. Even more so that Disney's Pandora (which comes in a close second). I think the new Star Wars land needs to be even more so because a really immersive experience is the only way to fight against video games and other forms of entertainment. We just visited Toy Story land and while it looks great, salvo for the Toy Story mania ride, the rest is just ok. A roller coaster with an extreme long line and a bumper-cars like ride. A lot of money was spent on a land that only has three rides with only one really feeling unique. The old Magic Kingdom had things like the Nautilus ride which gave you a fairly realistic feel of being in a real submarine. The ride no longer exists (beats me as to why), but it was a very immersive experience. In Toy Story land's case, the place looks great (although you never really feel as if you were in someone's backyard being the size of a toy), but lacks substance. Pandora is the best thing Disney has built in years but it also has some kinks to it. The boat ride although looks ok, makes no sense to me as you never get the feel for what story they are telling you. A complete contrast to the other ride where you get to go flying on top of a banshee. Everything on that ride is great, the cue decor the pre show, the ride itself. Really top notch stuff except that it's based on a non-Disney film that's not even regarded as great (once the CG 3D newness wore out people started to see the story as flimsy and too light). The land only has two rides and it's located on a park that started as a tribute to nature and animal conservation (hence the name "Animal Kingdom"). As great as the Pandora land is, I don't see it having long legs for in the future. Star Wars land has much more potential. Lucasfilm and Disney have built such a large universe around Star Wars that in all honestly, they should have built an entire park surrounding it and not just a land. Hey, maybe that's what they should build in Texas, a Disney Star Wars theme resort with a park and hotels, etc.

In all, Disney and park industry imagineers in general will have to get better and combining experiences so that it makes things worth going to them. Otherwise, here's the future of parks, everything is a screen and when not a screen, the projected onto a shape. But everything will still be video-based. Combining video with props is a good idea but for it too look great they need to be generating the video content in no-less than 8K and work really hard at matching the colors and lighting, (I know that's what they do already but still needs improvement). But when amusement parks become just a more expensive version of a video game, that's when eventually people will question the expenditure vs what they get.
 

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