Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[Captain Chaos]

I don't have actual numbers, but I can vouch for the experience anecdotally. I rode the Epcot line to CBR, and it was very comfortable. We didn't stop for more than 30 seconds along the route. I then took the Studios line, and we stopped for about 5 minutes. In that time, it felt very warm and I was sweating quite a bit. In that amount of time, I noticed wanting water and feeling the starts of wanting to get into the shade. It was the middle of the day (about 3pm) with temps around 92 - heat index of about 97. Once we got started, the air circulation helped a lot. But, I remember thinking being stuck for more than 15 or 20 minutes could be an issue.

I will also note I had had a few drinks at Food and Wine (not a large amount) and hadn't been drinking water as I should have.

I raise all of that just for data points from actual experience. I think boarding it when you think it's going to be 5-10 minutes and you haven't maybe drank water or were fatigued or something could cause an issue if we were talking 90-120 minutes+ in heat like that. I've had heat exhaustion in similar situations at food and wine festivals here in Atlanta with similar heat. So, I could see it happening if people aren't in "normal" state/temp/hydration when boarding.

Thank you! I rather hear from someone who experienced it rather than someone who "knows" cause they just do, without experiencing it first hand. Much thanks!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Gondolas are moving on the EPCOT line right now. I can see them from just inside the park.

That's good news.

Pop line is dead.

 

[natatomic]

Let's talk about this notion that since there were no casualties in a 3+ hour FoP queue in a blazing Florida sun then those in a stopped gondola should be OK.

That is some nonsense right there.


It's total nonsense because of one absolutely colossal factor: CHOICE

Those caught in a sweltering FoP queue can leave and seek cover if things become too intense; gondola people get no choice.

I already made that argument. Trust me, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

 

[Incomudro]

Ten years ago the monorail got the worst press ever when two trains collided, killing a cast member. Seems like ridership is at an all time high these days!

Did monorails collide two weeks after they debuted?

 

[flynnibus]

A box with no cooling, in a very hot environment, does not get cooler than the air outside.

Who said it needed to? This isn't a martian lander protecting people from the hostile outside environment.

The natural chimney effect of cabin air will help a tiny bit, but over 8 feet, that force is pretty damn small.

Height does not hinder the stack effect - it actually improves it as does the temperature gradient.

Then of course, as you at least admit, there will be up to 8 chemical reactors inside starting at 98 F, and putting off heat. Once they get above 98 F, they start ****ing up because of this. For a few moments, no big deal, for 3 hours, it's a HUGE deal.

Yes, as I said all along.. I'm more concerned about the BTU output (both heat and humidity) of the passengers than I am about any solar energy. You can minimize the energy absorption from the outside.. but you can't do much of anything to stop the sweat machines sitting in the cabin.

You can state your physics knowledge all day, but during about 6 months out of the year, during about half of the operating day, those cabins will get very close, or above 98 F, which over 3 hours will cause some serious stress to the life forms inside. Especially the very small ones and the very old ones. Sure, they can all share the 25-30 ounces of hot water, and fight over the 2 cooling packs, but I don't think that's going to help.

Possibly.. but no one is paying me to do the math on the full system so no way am I investing in mocking it all up. Besides, 99% of the audience won't respect the math anyway and just fall back to their 'what makes them feel good' thoughts anyway. But what I do know is... it's a problem the designers would have considered. And I do know people en large survive these conditions when needed. So no.. I'm not really worried about people melting out of boxes in the sky.

 

[flynnibus]

I already made that argument. Trust me, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

Choice is typically about comfort. Missing from this 'choice' answer is the fact that the overwhelming majority DIDN'T NEED TO EXERCISE THE CHOICE and still survived to tell the tale...

Yes, its different from someone in a medical condition and not being able to get the help needed. But lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[trainplane3]

...what a spicy thread this is turning out to be...

 

[halltd]

One of the bigger issues being overlooked is how understaffed Reedy Creek is. Last night they were stretched as far as you can stretch dealing with the Skyliner incident. Had there been any other incidents on property things could have been very problematic for the mouse. Reedy Creek has been asking for more staff for years and Disney keeps saying no.

Doesn’t Disney pay taxes and the government runs itself? Does Disney really decide staffing for emergency services? I always thought the govt was set up for Disney, but they didn’t actually run it. I just thought they were the only landholder and therefore were the only taxpayer. But if they needed more money for more emergency services, raise the taxes.

 

[danv3]

Back to motion again on the EPCOT line.

(Trying to keep things on topic )

 

[Incomudro]

It's unfair to criticize a transportation system that not only collided in its second week of operation, but one that also needed the emergency evacuation procedure that had been practiced for to be deployed in its second week?
Disney surely hoped that evacuation system would not need to be used for years - if at all.

 

[monothingie]

One of the bigger issues being overlooked is how understaffed Reedy Creek is. Last night they were stretched as far as you can stretch dealing with the Skyliner incident. Had there been any other incidents on property things could have been very problematic for the mouse. Reedy Creek has been asking for more staff for years and Disney keeps saying no.

Like I mentioned earlier, the perfect storm would be if RCFD ( who are supposed to be the experts in Skyliner) , was dealing with another mass incident, then if the Skyliner incident happens that would not be good. Emergency response times may get affected, ya think?

Not even dealing with EMS which make up 85-90% of their runs per their FB page, RCFD has 4 stations which cover most of the 38 sq mi property.
Not counting EMS, each station has 3-5 FF to staff an engine company or ladder company or a rescue company. The minimum staffing for an apparatus per NFPA is 3 the ideal is 5. Add a battalion chief as the tour commander. I believe their fleet consists a articulating tower ladder and a standard stick, as well as a heavy rescue truck. So conceivably when they were dispatched for this, assuming they filled out the box, they got 2 engines, a ladder, and a rescue and a chief bringing in about 20 first responders. A daunting time consuming task for limited crew to assess and execute an action plan. Unfortunately as stated RCID has been reluctant to add more FF because they often use the call stats to say that the utilization and response time of/to non-ems calls remains within permissible levels. Further they can argue that having department recalls or mutual aid ensures that any coverage gap is quickly filled.

As a FF myself, fire departments rely on mutual aid for assistance when the incidents that exceed their resources. Not that they aren’t capable, but the complexity of the incident requires more resources. Extensive preplanning and preparation between local, county, and state organizations go into ensuring resources are readily available. These generate alarm cards in which incident commanders can ask for an additional alarm and know that more resources are on their way. OC fire and Rescue has responded multiple times to WDW on mutual aid calls likewise RCID FD has sent resources to to OC. Responding mutual aid is also just as capable as RCID and have access to the same tools and training as RCID FF, they may not know the in depth details about locations but when put to work, there should be no concern about their capability training and knowledge about how to get the job done.

 

[mikesteffen]

The more that people insist there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about, causes me to be more concerned.

 

[flynnibus]

Doesn’t Disney pay taxes and the government runs itself? Does Disney really decide staffing for emergency services? I always thought the govt was set up for Disney, but they didn’t actually run it. I just thought they were the only landholder and therefore were the only taxpayer. But if they needed more money for more emergency services, raise the taxes.

The answer lies in the middle. RCID is ran as an independent entity... it has its own income, expenses, and sets its tax rates and spending accordingly. But like any government, its accountable to it's citizens or stakeholders. And in the case of RCID, that is solely controlled by Disney by controlling who 'lives' in the district. So Disney controls the voting, and thus Disney controls who are on the Board of Supervisors who run it.. and hence have a separate, but complete influence, on how RCID operates.

In any other place.. it would be seen as complete cronyism... and in more recent times people have complained about the lack of independence... but it's 'as designed' when they set it all up.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

None of this stuff happened when Epcot's nighttime show was about understanding and togetherness. I'm just sayin'...

 

[Incomudro]

Seriously, I’d normally think you were a troll, but I’ve seen you on here enough to know that’s not the case.

Anyway, non-insurance people on here had concerns about the no a/c. Then those concerns ended up being a reality on DAY 6. We were lucky that it happened at night in October, and not at noon in July.

And if by “mass causality incident” you mean people becoming sick or in need of medical assistance (I don’t think there will dozens of dead people nor do I think anyone is claiming that either), then yes, that is a very real possibility during the middle of summer, and how you can honestly deny that is mind boggling.

Trapped in heat, minimal supplies including water, out of their control...yes. People can need medical assistance in that situation.

Again, have you even ridden one? Have you been stopped on it in the middle of the day? I have. If you haven’t, then you really have no room to say how it compares to standing outside and free to move around, and no room to talk about how comfortable it is or isn’t.

This "free to move around" is one of the aspects I mentioned previously.
People would say to me "why would being in the gondola be any worse (any hotter) than standing in line outside.
I would say: Because outside on a line, you can step off the line.
You can leave the line - go find shade or step indoors.
On the gondola, you are stuck.
Stuck in a small space possibly with four or five other people that you don't know and would rather not be with.

 

[MrMcDuck]

I see we are still making ridiculous comparisons to ski resorts and ride queues. Good grief.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Your car does not have reflective glass panels designed to block the suns energy. Your car doesn't have nearly the amount of open window space a gondola does unless you've opened all four windows in a sedan...

Just want to point out that when it's 100º out and humid as a Louisiana bayou... Without air movement, guess what it's like inside that box? "Passive cooling" as Disney likes to tout is fine - as long as the gondola keeps moving.

 

[flynnibus]

Just want to point out that when it's 100º out and humid as a Louisiana bayou... Without air movement, guess what it's like inside that box? "Passive cooling" as Disney likes to tout is fine - as long as the gondola keeps moving.

Don't confuse concepts. The discussion is not the the gondolas will be cooled - it's about how they are built to resist accumulating heat from solar and how they handle air movement.

Cooling and avoiding accumulation are two different things.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

A member of my FB group brought up a really good question - do the cars swing at all when they are being evacuated? Specifically, how do they go about evacuating a guest who relies on a wheelchair and is unable to walk or stand?

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Don't confuse concepts. The discussion is not the the gondolas will be cooled - it's about how they are built to resist accumulating heat from solar and how they handle air movement.

Cooling and avoiding accumulation are two different things.

Okay, so they won't heat up as quickly as a closed car. 100º outside and several bodies inside at 98.6º (adding more humidity). Still no picnic.